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JustaServant
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So did Fred Phelps.
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Lenten_ashes
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LOL, do you honestly think he is that bad?
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JustaServant
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In many ways worse. Voris injects just enough truth in his teaching to gain a larger following and do more damage.
Good guy to stay away from.
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SyroMalankara
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He could be called a traditionalist - radical though? Not sure, he’s not anti- a solemn NovusOrdo or particularly pro-1962Mass onlyist. Disobedient? Again, not sure, maybe not particularly obedient to one bishop or two but the Church overall? Not quite. Expert? Maybe not, but he does have a theology degree, experience with being on the other side of religion and in a lifestyle that is known for it’s antiCatholic elements.
Not to say I agree with his methods in general or the presentation, but it’s hardly Fred Phelps material. Not even close.
I’d say a bit more like CatholicNews version of BillO’Reilly or Sean Hannity. More editorial opinion than actual news.
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MichaelP3
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Yup. I follow him. Liked his facebook and even registered on ChurchMillitant (Not a paying member though). I really find it interesting and always wonder what’s next. Oh and even better reading the comments afterwards by everyone.
He is the kinda guy I would think is doing more damage to Catholicism than good. His occasional Protestant rant doesn’t bother me (Although the Protty Jesus Vortex wasn’t funny). I don’t really see him as a threat for Protestants at all.
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JoyToTheWhirled
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Church Militant do shut down critique of the present pope quite quickly so I think the characterisation of them as anti this pope is misguided. Voris is quite the belligerent, but I have learned quite a bit from the more educational Vortex shows. It’s not all my cup of tea and can leave me feeling quite despondent if I read too much of the website, but I guess I am a wuss.
As to the question of Protestantism and atheism, well, no it doesn’t necessarily follow but the General point about individualism is a fair one I think.
As to the question of Protestantism and atheism, well, no it doesn’t necessarily follow but the General point about individualism is a fair one I think.
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Eric_Hilbert
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The topic please.
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johnnyc176
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Well it can. I think it depends on how far one has strayed from the Truth of Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church. This also pertains to liberals within the Church who dissent from the teachings of Jesus. Some of the best protestants I know claim to be ‘catholic’. 
I remember a poll which asked what is the greatest danger to Christianity and although protestantism wasn’t a choice that was my choice because when the world looks at Christianity it sees division and exploits it But the other side of that too is that with athiests, liberals and protestants all aligned in array against the Catholic Church it is pretty good evidence of the Truth of the Catholic Church being the One True Church founded by Christ.
I remember a poll which asked what is the greatest danger to Christianity and although protestantism wasn’t a choice that was my choice because when the world looks at Christianity it sees division and exploits it But the other side of that too is that with athiests, liberals and protestants all aligned in array against the Catholic Church it is pretty good evidence of the Truth of the Catholic Church being the One True Church founded by Christ.
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exnihilo
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No, but it does lead to what the great Tom T. Hall sang of, Me n’ Jesus. As his song says, ‘we don’t need anybody to tell us what it’s all about’. It has occurred to me though that Protestantism’s arguments tend to help atheism. Protestant arguments attack the teaching of the Catholic Church. If the Catholic Church is the true Church then this certainly wounds true Christian Faith. Even if it isn’t the true Church the fact that Protestantism can’t really agree on anything, with the various arguments undermining any single, coherent understanding of Scripture, it leads to the Faith being a very vague or incomprehensible thing. The abundance of opinions and groups has certainly been cited to me as proof (though I disagree it is) by atheists that the Christian Faith is just the made up opinion of men. I’ve had atheists ask me which Church is the right Church implying the number of Churches is proof that all of them are false. That of course doesn’t logically follow but people do think that way.
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Lenten_ashes
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Had similar problems in debates with Muslims. They believe that all this division in Christianity is proof that Islam is true as their holy writ says Christians are full of conjecture.
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anon67074017
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I did not post that. I don’t know how that ended up being attributed to me.But do you have any polling data to indicate how the OP’s original question might be answered? I’ve been looking and I don’t see anything of the sort from Gallup or Pew in my seaches so far.
So the “clubhouse banter” is about all we have to go on.
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alwayswill
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I quickly found these surveysBut do you have any polling data to indicate how the OP’s original question might be answered? I’ve been looking and I don’t see anything of the sort from Gallup or Pew in my seaches so far.
So the “clubhouse banter” is about all we have to go on.
pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/belief-in-god/
Belief in God by religious group (absolute certain)
Catholic 64%
Evangelical Protestant 88%
tulsaworld.com/news/religion/most-americans-believe-in-resurrection-of-christ-polls-show/article_ba5a9c54-4088-5b85-a164-783307c03866.html
A 2010 Rasmussen Reports survey found that 78 percent of Americans believe Christ was raised from the dead, 10 percent don’t believe it and 11 percent aren’t sure.
Evangelical Christians overwhelmingly - 97 percent - believe in the Resurrection
along with 87 percent of Catholics
and 86 percent of other Protestants.
pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/25/most-americans-believe-in-jesus-virgin-birth/
religioustolerance.org/virgin_b7.htm
“The pollsters reported that: “Despite the Roman Catholic Church’s historical emphasis on the theological importance of Mary, Catholics in the poll were somewhat less likely than Protestants to believe in the virgin birth. Theologians attributed this to the doctrine in many Protestant churches that the Bible must be accepted as literal truth.”
“Does Protestantism lead to atheism?”so the answer is “no”
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alwayswill
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ncronline.org/news/faith-parish/hidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestantsBut do you have any polling data to indicate how the OP’s original question might be answered? I’ve been looking and I don’t see anything of the sort from Gallup or Pew in my seaches so far.
So the “clubhouse banter” is about all we have to go on.
"Catholics who became Protestant also claim to have a stronger faith now than when they were children or teenagers. Seventy-one percent say their faith is “very strong,” while only 35 percent and 22 percent reported that their faith was very strong when they were children and teenagers, respectively. On the other hand, only 46 percent of those who are still Catholic report their faith as “very strong” today as an adult.
Thus, both as believers and as worshipers, Catholics who become Protestants are statistically better Christians than those who stay Catholic. We are losing the best, not the worst."
“Does Protestantism lead to atheism?”
so the answer is “no”
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Lenten_ashes
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Not arguing that protestantism leads to Atheism because obviously absurd. It’s the stupidest thing I have ever heard Voris say.
But I’ve seen you quote from this article before so I’d like to comment on it
The comment " We are losing our best, not the worst" is something a pundit might say or a prophet of doom. Saw nothing in there to back his commentary.
I’d love to see how many of these defectors of the Church actually left because they wanted to be immoral and take birth control and get divorced etc, etc, and the Church said nope, not here. I’m sure they are going to admit all that freely, right? Or not!!!
The Church is losing people who don’t understand their faith. So they get gobbled up by well intended Protestants who come equipped with a bible and Romans 10:9 or other cherry picked verses, and this appeals to them as it makes things much less complicated. The informed Catholics i know would NEVER walk away from the Mass because they know what they have there.
To sum this all up, there is a great falling away overall in Christianity. You quoted something from 5 years ago which is recent but not that recent. Poll after poll shows America, as a whole, is less “religious” over the last 20-30 years. Less and less people identify as Christians and the ones who still do are not attending service on a regular basis. And that’s across the board, not just the Catholic church.
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alwayswill
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from the article:…
I’d love to see how many of these defectors of the Church actually left because they wanted to be immoral and take birth control and get divorced etc, etc, and the Church said nope, not here. I’m sure they are going to admit all that freely, right? Or not!!!
…
“While half of those who became Protestants say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teaching, specific questions get much lower responses. Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty.”
ncronline.org/news/faith-parish/hidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants
‘No True Scotsman’ Fallacy
logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/
May I be allowed to also make the same point?
The informed Protestants i know would NEVER walk away from the Sola Fide/ Sola Scriptura because they know what they have there
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Lenten_ashes
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Yeah, you honestly think they all truthfully answered this? Knowing how it makes them look prideful even if they don’t agree with the teaching? This is why I say the presidential polls are skewed right now and cant be totally trusted. Many are voting for Trump but they are too embarrassed to actually admit it.
I’ll close with scriptural reference to the Mass and what we have in the Catholic church:
People didn’t believe it then, and they still dont believe it now. Including many who identify as Catholic.
I wonder why Jesus didn’t just stop them and quote Romans 10:9? Would have been easier for them to grasp
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alwayswill
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just an FYI
I do have a reply do those points: I’m not stumped
but the moderator wants us to stay on topic:
have a good night
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MichaelP3
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Some things there I just want to touch upon. I have never heard the word immoral/morality etc so much before I started looking into Catholicism. Not that I didn’t know about it but a word as hard as immoral has always bordered onto something like bestiality.Reading the catechism, every second thing is considered immoral. I came to realise the definition isn’t the same as the Oxford dictionary will tell me.Not arguing that protestantism leads to Atheism because obviously absurd. It’s the stupidest thing I have ever heard Voris say.
But I’ve seen you quote from this article before so I’d like to comment on it
The comment " We are losing our best, not the worst" is something a pundit might say or a prophet of doom. Saw nothing in there to back his commentary.
I’d love to see how many of these defectors of the Church actually left because they wanted to be immoral and take birth control and get divorced etc, etc, and the Church said nope, not here. I’m sure they are going to admit all that freely, right? Or not!!!
The Church is losing people who don’t understand their faith. So they get gobbled up by well intended Protestants who come equipped with a bible and Romans 10:9 or other cherry picked verses, and this appeals to them as it makes things much less complicated. The informed Catholics i know would NEVER walk away from the Mass because they know what they have there.
To sum this all up, there is a great falling away overall in Christianity. You quoted something from 5 years ago which is recent but not that recent. Poll after poll shows America, as a whole, is less “religious” over the last 20-30 years. Less and less people identify as Christians and the ones who still do are not attending service on a regular basis. And that’s across the board, not just the Catholic church.
And with all due respect. Saying informed Catholics will never do this or that is an unfair statement. It has always been how I saw numerous arguments thrown my way basically saying “If you don’t agree/believe in Catholicism, you just don’t understand it”
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Lenten_ashes
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Really? Because Prostestantism is the one accusing Catholicism of “tolerating” certain “sins” by distinguishing between the two? (Mortal/Venial) So that’ interesting.
I normally do not make blanket statements, Michael, but If they really believe the Churchs’ definition of John 6 they wont leave. If you honestly thought you were receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus in the Eucharist you would probably sign up for RCIA tomorrow as I know you really love the Lord.
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Lenten_ashes
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And you.
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