Does Purgatory compromise God's saving grace and imply that our sins aren't fully forgiven?

[redsox370724]

Question… If our mortal sins are forgiven and we are essentially just purging our venial sins, 1) why does it matter if you are St. Francis or a murderer who ends up going to purgatory? 2) If it does matter, would this conclude that purgatory is place of justice and ultimately ties to works? 3) If this is case, would this compromise God’s saving grace and imply that our sins aren’t fully forgiven? Why or why not? I understand this is likely a common fundamentalist question; I assure you, I am seeking the Catholic faith and would love to here an answer, or better yet, if my question is self-refuting within itself. Thank you!

 

[Michael_Francis]

Split from another thread because it was off topic and not addressed.

 

[Ignatius]

Question… If our mortal sins are forgiven and …

It is because of God’s saving Grace and infinite mercy that there is a purgatory.
Ask your self if you are perfect and pure. If you are honest, you will acknowledge that you are propably not. Now the Bible tells us that when we are in heaven we will be perfectly pure. Purgatory is that means, by God’s Grace and Mercy, that we are purged of our impurity and imperfections.
This is all explained clearly in the Catechism. If you don’t have one or have not read it, get one and read it. The answers to so many of the misunderstandings are there.

 

[snarflemike]

Keep in mind God’s intentions for us. He wants us to be perfect as he is perfect, holy as he is holy. He wants us to partake of his very divine nature. One can have one’s sins forgiven without being perfect and holy - it happens at every Confession. But that alone isn’t enough. God wants more for us. He wants everything for us, and purgatory is how he gets most of us to that point.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Question… If our mortal sins are forgiven and we are essentially just purging our venial sins, 1) why does it matter if you are St. Francis or a murderer who ends up going to purgatory? 2) If it does matter, would this conclude that purgatory is place of justice and ultimately ties to works? 3) If this is case, would this compromise God’s saving grace and imply that our sins aren’t fully forgiven? Why or why not? I understand this is likely a common fundamentalist question; I assure you, I am seeking the Catholic faith and would love to here an answer, or better yet, if my question is self-refuting within itself. Thank you!

Purgatory isn’t about “forgiveness” per se in the sense of guilt, i.e. eternal consequences attached to a sin. It is about the temporal consequences of a sin, which demand both a sense of justice in recompense and causes damage to the soul committing the sin.

Take for example, the letter to the Hebrews:
*Hebrews 12:7-10 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.*Here you have an example of God, for the sake of holiness, effects discipline to people who are already His children. Now why would that be the case if all that was needed was to “forgive” a sin in the sense of not demanding the eternal punishment associated with it?

Purgatory is about holiness, purity, purification. That is vital to remember. The reason, even after forgiveness of sins, God still seeks to purify the soul, is because He desires the soul to be eternally united with Him. And since no blemish is compatible with God (e.g. Rev. 21:27), God sees that reconciliation includes the purification of the soul even if that soul is bound for heaven.

See also:
What is Purgatory?
Purgatory Catholic.com tract
Arguments Against Purgatory Considered by Kevin Tierney

 

[MarcoPolo]

p.s. As to “works,” it is also vital to remember that in Catholic theology, any meritorious work done by a soul is itself God’s gift. For example, the Council of Trent in session 6 states:
*Jesus Christ Himself continually infuses his virtue into the said justified,-as the head into the members, and the vine into the branches,-and this virtue always precedes and accompanies and follows their good works, which without it could not in any wise be pleasing and meritorious before God.andHe will have the things which are His own gifts be their merits.*Catholic theology does not have the dichotomy often perceived by non-Catholics, that if a person do what is considered a “good work” it must therefore be something in competition with Christ’s work. Yet, as Trent shows, it is Christ’s virtue, his merit, which flows unto the Church. The Church is his body, as Scripture says. The Church are the branches of the vine, as Scripture says. So ultimately, if one insists that members of the body cannot do good, then what they are essentially saying is that the head, the vine, the source cannot do good, because it is from this source that all virtue flows.

 

[sw85]

Question… If our mortal sins are forgiven and we are essentially just purging our venial sins, 1) why does it matter if you are St. Francis or a murderer who ends up going to purgatory? 2) If it does matter, would this conclude that purgatory is place of justice and ultimately ties to works? 3) If this is case, would this compromise God’s saving grace and imply that our sins aren’t fully forgiven? Why or why not? I understand this is likely a common fundamentalist question; I assure you, I am seeking the Catholic faith and would love to here an answer, or better yet, if my question is self-refuting within itself. Thank you!

If I accidentally break your window and you forgive me, does that mean I don’t have to replace your window?

Confession forgives guilt, but debt remains. In Purgatory, we work to pay off whatever debt has not been paid with penance and sacrifice here on earth.

 

[mab23]

Question… If our mortal sins are forgiven and we are essentially just purging our venial sins, 1) why does it matter if you are St. Francis or a murderer who ends up going to purgatory? 2) If it does matter, would this conclude that purgatory is place of justice and ultimately ties to works? 3) If this is case, would this compromise God’s saving grace and imply that our sins aren’t fully forgiven? Why or why not? I understand this is likely a common fundamentalist question; I assure you, I am seeking the Catholic faith and would love to here an answer, or better yet, if my question is self-refuting within itself. Thank you!

one analogy that may help with this somewhat

imagine you have to journey home through mud, you try to keep it off you but you fall and get muddy a few times but you make it home

you are welcomed inside but you are still muddy and you gotta clean up before getting inside

purgatory is the state in which you are being cleansed, purged, purified

hope this helps

 

[Surnaturel]

Question… If our mortal sins are forgiven and we are essentially just purging our venial sins, 1) why does it matter if you are St. Francis or a murderer who ends up going to purgatory? 2) If it does matter, would this conclude that purgatory is place of justice and ultimately ties to works? 3) If this is case, would this compromise God’s saving grace and imply that our sins aren’t fully forgiven? Why or why not? I understand theis is likely a common fundamentalist question; I assure you, I am seeking the Catholic faith and would love to here an answer, or better yet, if my question is self-refuting within itself. Thank you!

There are a lot of misconceptions about purgatory and in light of that I think that your question is quite appropriate. A purgatorial fire, viewed existentially in light of one’s failings, is grounded in the Jewish tradition, as seen in the two most influential philosophers of Second Temple Judaism (Hillel and Shammai), and many church fathers such as Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Isaac the Syrian, Gregory of Nyssa etc.

In the Middle Ages, scholasticism helped clarity some crucial distinctions and refine the faith but it also over exaggerated juridical concepts and punitive dimensions for purgatory. I say that just to provide some historical context.

As for your questions: 1) Purgatory as taught by our last two popes designates it as a process and Benedict in particular associates it with individual judgment after death. Now, the person is already saved, but they yet to be sanctified. Accordingly, they are not atoning for sins in any sense, rather they are being refined in the loving and fearsome gaze of Christ as he examines our life’s work (a biblical theme across the board).

 

[Zekariya]

We ask the saints to pray for us. We pray for the souls in purgatory. Only those who die in a state of grace are in purgatory.

When you commit a sin after baptism, there is a temporal punishment you must pay.

An example: A lapsed Catholic murders a man. His temporal punishment is life in prison. He confesses the sin (with true repentance) and is absolved. He still must pay the temporal punishment either in prison for life or in purgatory.

We can offer our penance, sufferings, prayers, and indulgences on behalf of our sins or others’ sins to lessen purgatory.

An indulgence pays for our temporal punishments that we earn from sin that we commit. When we die, if we have not paid for all of our temporal punishments, we will pay for them in purgatory.

A partial indulgence remits part of our temporal punishment. A plenary indulgence remits all of our temporal punishment we have earned up to that point.

Note: Baptism remits all sins and temporal punishment. Confession remits only sins.

We can gain indulgences for the poor souls in purgatory and pray for them.