Does Satan hate himself?

[bbentrup]

Does Satan hate himself? Does he know he screwed up?

 

[Lycorth]

Meh. It’s useless to speculate either way, but I suspect he’s so full of himself that he doesn’t realize the mistake he’s made.

After all, he beheld God Himself in all His glory and still to this day tries to tempt people into sin, so I’m sure he doesn’t regret what he did.

 

[bbentrup]

Meh. It’s useless to speculate either way…

Er, can you make a proof of that? By knowing his nature, it might give some insight on how one “falls” or how the Satan might seek to tempt mankind. There might be other seemingly valid reasons.

However, maybe I should change my original question, since ‘hate’ is somewhat ambiguous.

Does Satan despise/loathe himself (being and past actions) or is he totally satisfied with where he is in life?

 

[Lycorth]

Er, can you make a proof of that? By knowing his nature, it might give some insight on how one “falls” or how the Satan might seek to tempt mankind. There might be other seemingly valid reasons.

Can you prove that we can know whether or not Satan hates himself? That’s why it’s useless to speculate; we know what sin is, we know how to avoid sin, and we know how to remain in a state of grace. That’s all we need to know.

 

[bbentrup]

Can you prove that we can know whether or not Satan hates himself? That’s why it’s useless to speculate; we know what sin is, we know how to avoid sin, and we know how to remain in a state of grace. That’s all we need to know.

That’s hardly a proof. How do we know how to avoid sin? We have many sources. One is by using our intellect. Using your intellect to answer this question may shed some clearer light either for yourself or as a help in dialoguing with non-Christians. You’ll have to do better than that as a proof.

 

[Lycorth]

That’s hardly a proof. How do we know how to avoid sin? We have many sources. One is by using our intellect. Using your intellect to answer this question may shed some clearer light either for yourself or as a help in dialoguing with non-Christians. You’ll have to do better than that as a proof.

I didn’t say it was a proof. Don’t be arrogant.

I already used my intellect when I gave my personal opinion, that Satan is full of pride. Pride is the source of all sin, so we can be sure that Satan’s pride overwhelms any speculative self-hatred he might have.

Get the chip off your shoulder.

 

[tonyrey]

I believe Satan has a love-hate relationship - with himself of course! He chooses to exist for himself rather than God and others because he is full of self-love and wants to have absolute independence and power. Self-love is very pleasurable and satisfying but it eventually leads to frustration and misery for the simple reason that no one can replace God adequately. Yet his lust for power is so strong that Satan is prepared to pay the price even though he must realise that to worship oneself is to live in a fool’s paradise!

 

[Lycorth]

I believe Satan has a love-hate relationship - with himself of course! He chooses to exist for himself rather than God and others because he is full of self-love and wants to have absolute independence and power over himself. The trouble is that self-love is very pleasurable and satisfying but it eventually leads to frustration and misery for the simple reason that no one can replace God adequately. To worship oneself is to live in a fool’s paradise!

Amen. We can be certain that Satan’s misplaced and disordered love for himself causes him much anger and frustration that he takes out on God’s creations. If such is so fur us human beings (Lord, how I know what self-hatred can cause), how much more so for the angels, especially the fallen ones?

 

[tonyrey]

Amen. We can be certain that Satan’s misplaced and disordered love for himself causes him much anger and frustration that he takes out on God’s creations. If such is so fur us human beings (Lord, how I know what self-hatred can cause), how much more so for the angels, especially the fallen ones?

I hadn’t thought of that! Thanks for pointing it out. That’s the beauty of this forum: we never cease to get new ideas.

 

[MichaelR]

Or maybe it is his self-loathing for what he has done to himself that prompts his continuing temptations…perhaps that built up angst, or even, dare I say it, regret and refusal to acknowledge it and admit it, and his pain of being without God’s love and yet his refusal to admit that even to himself also, pushes him to keep tempting others to sin. If you were talking about a person who had gone down a self destructive path, it is often the self hatred they feel that has put them in a position of not being loved by others that makes them hate themselves more, and that pain makes them worse…it also makes them think ‘fine, if they think I’m a bad person, I’ll be a bad person’.

Just a creative/literary way of looking at it, as I would a character analysis. Doesn’t mean it’s true, just a more personable/emotive stance.

 

[Sonic]

I think there is a bit of a danger in anthropomorphizing the enemy. He… It is an angelic being… albeit a fallen one… and not a human. We understand the world through our own perspective, but we can’t honestly say we wholly understand the universe from an angelic beings perspective… let alone the motivations of demons or fallen angels.

I think all we can do is observe the actions of said beings and know that they do not have our interests at heart. The why or motivation for tempting us may not be emotional, but rooted in some task associated with their rebellion against God.

 

[tonyrey]

I think there is a bit of a danger in anthropomorphizing the enemy. He… It is an angelic being… albeit a fallen one… and not a human. We understand the world through our own perspective, but we can’t honestly say we wholly understand the universe from an angelic beings perspective… let alone the motivations of demons or fallen angels.

I think all we can do is observe the actions of said beings and know that they do not have our interests at heart. The why or motivation for tempting us may not be emotional, but rooted in some task associated with their rebellion against God.

Angelic beings are certainly different from us but all persons must have the same temptations to pride and selfishness because they have free will.

 

[MichaelR]

I think there is a bit of a danger in anthropomorphizing the enemy. He… It is an angelic being… albeit a fallen one… and not a human. We understand the world through our own perspective, but we can’t honestly say we wholly understand the universe from an angelic beings perspective… let alone the motivations of demons or fallen angels.

I completely understand what you’re saying. I suppose it’s natural and human nature for such ponderings though. After all, I have always gone by the idea that knowing and understanding the people that mean you harm is the surest way of staying one step ahead of them. And personification is the easiest way to try and understand. Not saying it’s right or wrong to do that, only inquisitive human nature.

I would say though that I, personally, have always seen the rebellion as a rather emotive event. And as I see/understand it an emotive way, I see/understand satan in the same manner. Again, not saying that’s right, just how my mind works.

 

[Sonic]

Angelic beings are certainly different from us but all persons must have the same temptations to pride and selfishness because they have free will.

Not necessarily. Humans are physical and spiritual beings. We are made up of a body and spirit or soul. Angelic beings do not have physical bodies. They are spiritual beings.

Lets take any temptation which appeals to our physical nature. Humans experience hunger through a need to eat. Through this need to eat, we can be tempted to over eat or take more than our fair share.

How then would this temptation apply to a being with no physical body and no need to eat?

 

[MichaelR]

Problem is, when Angels are so often represented in a human-esque form, isn’t it only natural that people will make a human connection with them?

 

[Sonic]

Problem is, when Angels are so often represented in a human-esque form, isn’t it only natural that people will make a human connection with them?

Of course… the iconography we use are symbols for them, but they aren’t necessarily representative of what they look like.

Angels have appeared to us in human form, but only for our benefit (communication wise). How they are capable of doing so through God’s permission and power is a mystery.

We know our souls are the animating force in our physical bodies. I would assume that spirits then have the ability to animate or manipulate physical matter in some way. How they do so without a physical body is another mystery.

 

[tonyrey]

Not necessarily. Humans are physical and spiritual beings. We are made up of a body and spirit or soul. Angelic beings do not have physical bodies. They are spiritual beings.

Lets take any temptation which appeals to our physical nature. Humans experience hunger through a need to eat. Through this need to eat, we can be tempted to over eat or take more than our fair share.

How then would this temptation apply to a being with no physical body and no need to eat?

It doesn’t! The temptations to pride and selfishness need not apply to the body - as the example of Lucifer demonstrates…

 

[benny_f]

Does Satan hate himself? Does he know he screwed up?

For me Satan is the absolute : he is exactly what man will become if he does not Love the Father. Does he hate himself? Well Satan is the personification of all that is wrong. He doesn’t believe humanity is good, he believes we will naturally follow our own heart instead of Our Lord’s, so yes he may be arrogant and believe he is right.

He might not even be the complete personification of evil. Perhaps he is just an example of total disobedience, complete indifference to God’s Will.

Does he know he screwed up? Hard to say, he might and might not. He was an angel after all, so maybe deep down he knows what he did was against the natural order, he may recognise it, but might not accept it.

In the end, the difference between the two is simple: Our Lord shows mercy and believes we are good, given the right tools, but Satan doesn’t. He thinks man is weak and unrepentant, so why bother trying to save them, they’re only insignificant pawns, which can be replaced over time with more “fools”.

 

[MichaelR]

so yes he may be arrogant and believe he is right.

Ah…but does he actually believe he is right, or does he fool himself to believe he is right because he’s lost so much, and it would all have been for nothing if he admitted, even to himself, that he was wrong? Just a thought to ponder, not suggesting it is actually the case…just looking at it from a human perspective

 

[JohnDamian]

Ah…but does he actually believe he is right, or does he fool himself to believe he is right because he’s lost so much, and it would all have been for nothing if he admitted, even to himself, that he was wrong? Just a thought to ponder, not suggesting it is actually the case…just looking at it from a human perspective

Our intuitive cognition of extra mental singulars only extends to material singulars; ie; those that are capable of being encapsulated in a phantasm. We cannot have an intuitive cognition of non-sensible objects or universals and as such; as Satan is a non-sensible object (angel) we cannot have an intuitive cognition of him. Furthermore, abstractive cognitions or those of sensory or experiential phantasms nessecitate experience; which we do not have. Consequently we cannot posit aptly on the matter.