Does Saying an Islamic Creed Deny Our Christian Faith?

[Son_of_Niall]

As a result, some Kenyans have begun to share tips online about how to pretend to be Muslim, just in case. This includes learning to recite the shahada—Islam’s main creed—in Arabic.

This pragmatic response to terror attacks is understandable. But is it biblically sound? Kenyan Christian leaders are divided on the issue.

christianitytoday.com/ct/2015/july-august/does-saying-islamic-creed-deny-our-christian-faith.html?share=OYeKw55FSv7WKeuupNOi7rqec8r/UvxK

 

[jas84173]

I don’t know I always thought the first verse of the Qur’an is beautiful and Jews and Christians could agree on that.

In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
All praise is due to God, the Lord of the Worlds.
The Beneficent, the Merciful.
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
Keep us on the right path.
The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I don’t know I always thought the first verse of the Qur’an is beautiful and Jews and Christians could agree on that.

In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
All praise is due to God, the Lord of the Worlds.
The Beneficent, the Merciful.
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
Keep us on the right path.
The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

Agree. The Shema, in Judaism, is also a prayer/creed that we all can recite.

‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.’
‘Shema, Yisroel, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai echad.’

 

[SyroMalankara]

I don’t know I always thought the first verse of the Qur’an is beautiful and Jews and Christians could agree on that.

In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
All praise is due to God, the Lord of the Worlds.
The Beneficent, the Merciful.
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
Keep us on the right path.
The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

Unfortunately that isn’t going to save anyone from any of these kooky murderous thugs. Each of them knows how they themselves perceive “real” Islam. These gestures, actions, prayers and views can’t simply be imitated without living in it, including the so-called “true Arabic pronunciation” of each regional dialect. In other words, you might fool the terrorist for a second or two, not for much longer.

 

[aicirt]

Unfortunately that isn’t going to save anyone from any of these kooky murderous thugs. Each of them knows how they themselves perceive “real” Islam. These gestures, actions, prayers and views can’t simply be imitated without living in it, including the so-called “true Arabic pronunciation” of each regional dialect. In other words, you might fool the terrorist for a second or two, not for much longer.

Gotta do what you gotta do to stay alive. Nuns taught Jews children they were hiding Catholic prayers, the sign of the cross, and told them what to say about their communion day etc. Believe even the Vatican sent our baptismal certificates for Jews in hiding.

 

[Latinitas]

christianitytoday.com/ct/2015/july-august/does-saying-islamic-creed-deny-our-christian-faith.html?share=OYeKw55FSv7WKeuupNOi7rqec8r/UvxK

No Christian in their right minds could profess the Shahada, which declares Muhammad to be a prophet of God. Even if it was otherwise sound, it amounts to a denial of Christ and their Christian Faith, a gross violation of the First Commandment.

Remember…
“He who is ashamed of me and my words…” (Lk. 9:28)
“Whoever denies me before men…” (Matt. 10:33)

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

 

[Latinitas]

Gotta do what you gotta do to stay alive. Nuns taught Jews children they were hiding Catholic prayers, the sign of the cross, and told them what to say about their communion day etc. Believe even the Vatican sent our baptismal certificates for Jews in hiding.

The first sentence is wrong. Our Lord Himself said that if we deny Him to save our life, we will lose our life in next (i.e. make ourselves liable to damnation, because it’s a mortal sin). The difference between this and hiding Jewish children is simple - the Catholic Faith is true, and it’s an act of charity to teach others the Faith, but it’s a violation of the First Commandment to honor God, including publically, to deny the true Faith for a false one (Islam). The Faith is worth dying for - ask the Martyrs.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

 

[cfm56dash7]

Given the examples from the Christianity Today article, I don’t think that I could bring myself to condemn someone who claimed to be Muslim to avoid the executioner. I pray that I would find the strength to hold to my creed and say so to my captors.

I do find myself conflicted by the case where an American public school system is asking students to recite the Shahada. I was recently reading about a Tennessee school requiring the recitation as part of their study of Islam.

How would a Muslim treat such an utterance? I am told that these are the words proving conversion. Does merely speaking them make you a Muslim? (Would a pious Muslim count the speaker as a Muslim?) If so, does saying the words put the speaker at risk of all of the consequences of apostasy I hear about with Islam? Would a 7th grader who recited these words at the insistence of a teacher, incur a death penalty for apostasy when he attended church services with his parent on the next Sunday?

I know… no reasonable person would draw such a conclusion, but reasonableness seems to have taken a holiday of late.

 

[aicirt]

Given the examples from the Christianity Today article, I don’t think that I could bring myself to condemn someone who claimed to be Muslim to avoid the executioner. I pray that I would find the strength to hold to my creed and say so to my captors.

I do find myself conflicted by the case where an American public school system is asking students to recite the Shahada. I was recently reading about a Tennessee school requiring the recitation as part of their study of Islam.

How would a Muslim treat such an utterance? I am told that these are the words proving conversion. Does merely speaking them make you a Muslim? (Would a pious Muslim count the speaker as a Muslim?) If so, does saying the words put the speaker at risk of all of the consequences of apostasy I hear about with Islam? Would a 7th grader who recited these words at the insistence of a teacher, incur a death penalty for apostasy when he attended church services with his parent on the next Sunday?

I know… no reasonable person would draw such a conclusion, but reasonableness seems to have taken a holiday of late.

Read article about the Shahada being recited by 7th graders as part of CORE program. My question is who are these teachers? What Christian or Jew would ask this of their kids even if the school required it? Are our kids being turned over to atheists who don’t believe or seculars who think all religions are the same?

 

[steido01]

I don’t know I always thought the first verse of the Qur’an is beautiful and Jews and Christians could agree on that.

In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
All praise is due to God, the Lord of the Worlds.
The Beneficent, the Merciful.
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
Keep us on the right path.
The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

The question is less to do with these exact words, in and of themselves, but of the meanings and connotations attached to them. While Catholicism understands the Muslim god to be simply a misunderstanding of the Christian God, orthodox Protestants and Orthodox generally do not. To recite words that are specifically rendered to the [powerless] god of Islam might cause no real harm, but it would give the appearance of worship. So Paul’s caution about meat sacrificed to idols is relevant.

 

[aicirt]

Not sure how to cut and paste on this site. Here is an excellent article on Father Z’s blog you’ll find extremely interesting.

THE FINAL HIJRA: A WARNING ON THE REFUGEE CRISIS by Andrew Bieszad.

The picture is of young men. The aim is to conquer Europe and expecially ROME, the seat of the Catholic Church.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Not sure how to cut and paste on this site. Here is an excellent article on Father Z’s blog you’ll find extremely interesting.

THE FINAL HIJRA: A WARNING ON THE REFUGEE CRISIS by Andrew Bieszad.

The picture is of young men. The aim is to conquer Europe and expecially ROME, the seat of the Catholic Church.

A piece of the sky is falling on your head.
What’s this have to do with the article?

 

[aicirt]

A piece of the sky is falling on your head.
What’s this have to do with the article?

The OP started by saying that Nigerians were learning Muslim prayers in order to save themselves from being killed. In TENN., teachers have required our kids to learn a Muslim prayer. This is certainly not done to save them from being killed. It is being done by secularists who have no clue about religion and think all will be fine if we’d all join hands and “get along.”

I would probably be sued if I ever even attempted to teach the Hail Mary in a public school.

The article I suggested you read is about what is really going on in Europe and here. This is an invasion. ISIS is in our country. TENN is an indication of the drip, drip, drip eroding our culture that few people understand, even after Boston and 9/11, even after our POTUS has more Muslims as advisors then ever, even after our POTUS insists on this Iranian deal giving them the ultimate weapon to kill us.

GET IT NOW?

 

[Son_of_Niall]

The OP started by saying that Nigerians were learning Muslim prayers in order to save themselves from being killed. In TENN., teachers have required our kids to learn a Muslim prayer. This is certainly not done to save them from being killed. It is being done by secularists who have no clue about religion and think all will be fine if we’d all join hands and “get along.”

I would probably be sued if I ever even attempted to teach the Hail Mary in a public school.

The article I suggested you read is about what is really going on in Europe and here. This is an invasion. ISIS is in our country. TENN is an indication of the drip, drip, drip eroding our culture that few people understand, even after Boston and 9/11, even after our POTUS has more Muslims as advisors then ever, even after our POTUS insists on this Iranian deal giving them the ultimate weapon to kill us.

GET IT NOW?

Lots of ‘sky is falling’ articles out there from all sorts of people trying to sell books and agendas. A simple Google search of this dude was all I needed to know.
The head of the religion in your moniker apparently disagrees with you. I fail to see how poor people fleeing war WE STARTED, in third world countries constitutes an ‘invasion’.
I prefer to listen to my Pope, not a guy trying to sell his books.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

I forgot to point out the author cited is a radical Trad and a supporter of the SSPX.
Epic fail.

 

[aicirt]

Lots of ‘sky is falling’ articles out there from all sorts of people trying to sell books and agendas. A simple Google search of this dude was all I needed to know.
The head of the religion in your moniker apparently disagrees with you. I fail to see how poor people fleeing war WE STARTED, in third world countries constitutes an ‘invasion’.

.
Do you seriously believe that all those fleeing are Christians? We took in a family who were religiously persecuted and their sons became the Boston bombers. Look at the picture. Vast majority young men.

Whether the author is a Trad or SSPX, the intent of the Muslims doesn’t change. If you are not Muslim, you are an infidel and, therefore, a target to be eliminated.

The Pope is a realist or at least the Vatican. Why do you think there’s a Swiss Guard?
Great for the Kodak moment? They’re there to do more.

 

[Ontheway]

The OP started by saying that Nigerians were learning Muslim prayers in order to save themselves from being killed. In TENN., teachers have required our kids to learn a Muslim prayer. This is certainly not done to save them from being killed. It is being done by secularists who have no clue about religion and think all will be fine if we’d all join hands and “get along.”

I would probably be sued if I ever even attempted to teach the Hail Mary in a public school.

The article I suggested you read is about what is really going on in Europe and here. This is an invasion. ISIS is in our country. TENN is an indication of the drip, drip, drip eroding our culture that few people understand, even after Boston and 9/11, even after our POTUS has more Muslims as advisors then ever, even after our POTUS insists on this Iranian deal giving them the ultimate weapon to kill us.

GET IT NOW?

A couple of points:

1. It is obvious that there is humanitarian crisis in the Middle East and parts of Asia and Africa. One could blame us or them or others for the disasters in Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc. Regardless of where the blame belongs, there is a seemingly endless migration of people into Europe. These people deserve our compassion as any human being in that predicament does.

2, It seems that the vast majority of these “refugees” are Muslim.

3, Every Muslim I have ever known takes it for granted that the entire world will be converted to Islam and this is just a matter of time. Even the western Muslims who are against ISIS take this for granted, and they think it will be a better world.

1. The great influx of Muslims into Europe will change the course of history and forever change Europe. These folks don’t integrate. They take advantage of the social services available to them, hence their desire to move to Germany and Scandinavia.

 

[aicirt]

A couple of points:

1. It is obvious that there is humanitarian crisis in the Middle East and parts of Asia and Africa. One could blame us or them or others for the disasters in Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc. Regardless of where the blame belongs, there is a seemingly endless migration of people into Europe. These people deserve our compassion as any human being in that predicament does.

2, It seems that the vast majority of these “refugees” are Muslim.

3, Every Muslim I have ever known takes it for granted that the entire world will be converted to Islam and this is just a matter of time. Even the western Muslims who are against ISIS take this for granted, and they think it will be a better world.

1. The great influx of Muslims into Europe will change the course of history and forever change Europe. These folks don’t integrate. They take advantage of the social services available to them, hence their desire to move to Germany and Scandinavia.

Exactly!

 

[Son_of_Niall]

.
Do you seriously believe that all those fleeing are Christians? We took in a family who were religiously persecuted and their sons became the Boston bombers. Look at the picture. Vast majority young men.

Whether the author is a Trad or SSPX, the intent of the Muslims doesn’t change. If you are not Muslim, you are an infidel and, therefore, a target to be eliminated.

The Pope is a realist or at least the Vatican. Why do you think there’s a Swiss Guard?
Great for the Kodak moment? They’re there to do more.

What is YOUR solution then? Let them starve? Kill them? Send them back to the crater that was once their country? Tell us all what YOUR solution to this is.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

A couple of points:

1. It is obvious that there is humanitarian crisis in the Middle East and parts of Asia and Africa. One could blame us or them or others for the disasters in Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc. Regardless of where the blame belongs, there is a seemingly endless migration of people into Europe. These people deserve our compassion as any human being in that predicament does.

2, It seems that the vast majority of these “refugees” are Muslim.

3, Every Muslim I have ever known takes it for granted that the entire world will be converted to Islam and this is just a matter of time. Even the western Muslims who are against ISIS take this for granted, and they think it will be a better world.

1. The great influx of Muslims into Europe will change the course of history and forever change Europe. These folks don’t integrate. They take advantage of the social services available to them, hence their desire to move to Germany and Scandinavia.

The other word for that is religious bigotry.