Does scripture discourage praying for those in mortal sin?

[rap]

Here is the passage I speak of: “If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.” 1 John 5:16-17 NAB

The explanation on the side reads “In love, we pray for those who are in sin, but not deadly sin, probably referring to apostasy or activities brought on under the antichrist. Even in the latter case, however, prayer, while not enjoined, is not forbidden.”

 

[copland]

This passage is written to the common believer by St. John, and for those who have sinned unto death, they need more than our prayers for their forgiveness, they need the correct formula for their forgiveness, that is confession and penance done through a priest. St. John Cassian seems to hit on this in the Confeence of Abbbot Pinufus

Sometimes too the pardon of our sins is obtained by the intercession of the saints, for “if a man knows his brother to sin a sin not unto death, he asks, and He will give to him his life, for him that <A href=“http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm” sins< a>not unto death;” and again: “Is any sick among you? Let him send for the Elders of the Church and they shall pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him.”

 

[SyCarl]

There is a problem in using these verses as referring to mortal and deadly sin.

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
(1 John 5:16-17 NASB)

Note that John says that if we pray for someone committing a sin not leading to death, God will give the sinner life. However, if the distinction between mortal and venial sin is correct, the person would not die from committing a venial sin so would already have life.

 

[copland]

St. Ambrose also touched on this subject, and he also points out that it takes special intercession for mortal sin.

“*He who knows that his brother *<A href=“http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm” sins< a>a sin not unto death, let him ask, and God will give him life, because he sinned not unto death. There is a sin unto death: not concerning it do I say, let him ask.” 1 John 5:16 He was not speaking to Moses and Jeremiah, but to the people, who must seek another intercessor for their sins; the people, for whom it is sufficient they entreat God for their lighter faults, and consider that pardon for weightier sins must be reserved for the prayers of the just.

 

[copland]

SyCarl

Note that John says that if we pray for someone committing a sin not leading to death, God will give the sinner life. However, if the distinction between mortal and venial sin is correct, the person would not die from committing a venial sin so would already have life.

I have an old Douay Rheims study Bible that has a footnote that says that in this passage it is hard to determine what the sin not unto death and sin unto death exactly is, and that sin unto death is a mortal sin since it goes on and mentioned so they can have life, but the sin unto death is the final unrepentance of someone.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church does not come right out and say that the sin not unto death is mortal or not mortal sin in paragraph 1854, but it only puts 1John 5:16-17 in a footnote while saying that the Church understands the difference between mortal and venial sin.

Oecumenius believed that the sin unto death was the sin that has no thought of repentance, such as Judas. Theophylact also believed that by calling it “callous in impenitence.”

St. Augustine usually is able to satisfy my need for a Scriptural interpretations. In his sermons of 1John, he points out that the sin unto death would be a person who after acknowledging God through the grace of our Lord and then fights against the brotherhood and set on by hatred against the grace through which he was reconciled to God.
But a sin not unto death according to St. Augustine is when a person not having alienated his love from his brother, yet through some infirmity of mind may have failed to exibit the due offices of brotherhood.

 

[sseason]

Here is the passage I speak of: “If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.” 1 John 5:16-17 NAB

The explanation on the side reads “In love, we pray for those who are in sin, but not deadly sin, probably referring to apostasy or activities brought on under the antichrist. Even in the latter case, however, prayer, while not enjoined, is not forbidden.”

I agree with the above writers about the line “if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life.”

I do not know how to explain the line “about which I do not say that you should pray”…I don’t understand that.

All I know is that we have a Merciful God. And Jesus shows us that especially on Divine Mercy Sunday. “though your sins be as scarlet, I shall make you white as snow.” Of course that is referring to forgiveness through the Sacrament of Confession though. But it often takes the prayers of many mothers and unknown faces, such as prayerful nuns, rosary praying elderly, and the like, who’s prayers get us to confession in the first place.

Jesus came for the sick. We are to immitate Jesus. We should pray for everyone. These days, there are few and far between who are not in the state of mortal sin.

They (me included) need the prayers of everyone.

 

[sseason]

testing…1,2,3,…sorry, trying to figure out the difference between clicking on “quote” and clicking on “reply”.

 

[Scribbless]

Well, if they are already dead, i don’t think it’s bad, I just think it wont help. But if they’re still alive, I guess you could pray for a change of heart, conversion, and forgiveness.

 

[peary1]

Here is the passage I speak of: “If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.” 1 John 5:16-17 NAB

The explanation on the side reads “In love, we pray for those who are in sin, but not deadly sin, probably referring to apostasy or activities brought on under the antichrist. Even in the latter case, however, prayer, while not enjoined, is not forbidden.”

As long as a sinner is alive, he or she can be prayed for for the mercy of God and His grace to penetrate one’s soul. Err on the side of mercy.

 

[sseason]

Well, if they are already dead, i don’t think it’s bad, I just think it wont help. But if they’re still alive, I guess you could pray for a change of heart, conversion, and forgiveness.

The Catholic Church highly recommends us to pray for the dead. They could be in purgatory and need our prayers. Praying for the dead dates back to the old Testament. And when Mary appeared in Fatima, one of her requested intentions when praying the rosary was to pray for the poor souls in purgatory.

Below is a little Catholic Doctrine taken online from the “new advent” website…(not sure of the validity of this website, but this particular Doctrine seems correct. You can always just read the Catechism.)

Purgatory (Lat., “purgare”, to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God’s grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

The faith of the Church concerning purgatory is clearly expressed in the Decree of Union drawn up by the Council of Florence (Mansi, t. XXXI, col. 1031), and in the decree of the Council of Trent which (Sess. XXV) defined:

“Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has from the Sacred Scriptures and the ancient tradition of the Fathers taught in Councils and very recently in this Ecumenical synod (Sess. VI, cap. XXX; Sess. XXII cap.ii, iii) that there is a purgatory, and that the souls therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar; the Holy Synod enjoins on the Bishops that they diligently endeavor to have the sound doctrine of the Fathers in Councils regarding purgatory everywhere taught and preached, held and believed by the faithful” (Denzinger, “Enchiridon”, 983).

~Peace

 

[Gene_Church]

I do not see that scripture discourages prayer; rather, that the effacacy of that prayer still relies on the freedom of choice of the sinner.