Does scripture interpret scripture?

[guanophore]

You mean the one that Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden pretty much lead?

1voice, it seems that you are on this thread posting off topic for the sole purpose of antagonizing Catholics. Now you have been told that the CC is lead by the Magesterium, of which these two individuals are not a part. You have been told that when people espouse apostacy as these have,they excommunicate themselves.

One has to wonder about your motives.

And to respond to the topic, the Magesterium, appointed by Christ to lead the Church, teaches that holy Scripture must be read and understood in the light of the Apostolic Teaching, which is preserved infallibly by the HS in the Church.

 

[guanophore]

You make a lot of assumptions.

Sola Scriptura has nothing to do with eliminating expositors.

You are right, but it is about jettisoning the Sacred Tradition, which by your posts, you indicate you know is valid. Curious.

 

[1voice]

Way to change the subject

Its completely on point. LOL!
You guys go on and on about who invented the rules … when in reality …anyone can believe anything and be accepted as a Catholic.

 

[1voice]

You are right, but it is about jettisoning the Sacred Tradition, which by your posts, you indicate you know is valid. Curious.

What I hear you saying is that you guys think you own the exclusive franchise on exposition.

You seem to completely ignore salient points … when they dont support your presupposition.

 

[Patavium]

Its completely on point. LOL!
You guys go on and on about who invented the rules … when in reality …anyone can believe anything and be accepted as a Catholic.

This is not true, and it has been told to you many times. Look up the Catechism of the Catholic Church. However, you choose to completely ignore our answers in order to continue believing this LIE.

 

[Patavium]

What I hear you saying is that you guys think you own the exclusive franchise on exposition.

You seem to completely ignore salient points … when they dont support your presupposition.

Where did you refute the apostolic tradition? I just saw how you supported reading scripture through the lens of apostolic tradition.

Are we going to discuss the ideas or resort to attacks?

 

[guanophore]

Its completely on point. LOL!
You guys go on and on about who invented the rules … when in reality …anyone can believe anything and be accepted as a Catholic.

Only in your mind, 1voice. Us Catholics know quite well these people who have committed self excomminicating acts are not in a state of communion with the Church, and are likely living in mortal sin.

You are just refusing to accept Catholic Teaching on that matter, just like you refuse to accept that Scripture is not to be separated from the Sacred Tradition that produced it.

What I hear you saying is that you guys think you own the exclusive franchise on exposition.

Not at all. In fact, there have been thousands of volumes of exposition that are separated from the Apostolic faith. Ever read Calvin’s Insitutes?

There are thousands of expositors occupying thousands of pulpits, in the US alone. No exclusion on exposition.

You seem to completely ignore salient points … when they dont support your presupposition.

Your points about who is leading the CC are not salient, they are just antagonistic and hurtful. It is a terrible pain to see persons who were baptized Catholic leave the faith, and parade their shame in public like that. You seem to delight in rubbing salt in the wound of their separation from the One Faith that was passed down to us from the Apostles.

 

[Lincoln7]

Pablope, good to talk again,

What gospel truth and according to whom, Linc? As I asked you before…how can you be sure Calvin’s teachings are without error? Following the example of St Paul, who did he submit his writings/teachings to?

The gospel as it is laid out for us in scripture; Justification by grace alone, through faith alone, all for th Glory of God alone. I don’t believe Calvins teachings to be without error. Calvins teachings are subservient to the Word of God, as indeed are all confessions I use, they are submitted to it.

Luther seemed, by his actions, set himself to be speaking for the Church, same with Calvin…he set himself up as the rightful interpreter of Scripture.

Indeed he was part of the church and an expositor, he saw it as the duty of the church to engage in interpreting the scriptures for people, hence he did. It’s also important to remember context with the two reformers; Luther set out to reform the catholic church, but it didn’t listen. Calvin was a second generation reformer, and as such his works are much more on developing a systematic Protestsnt theology.

What value is their brilliance, teachings and what not…if it was borne out of disobedience?

Again though Pablope, if one is convinced a papacy is both unscriptural and unhistorical, one is not naturally inclined to think one must submit to it.

What do you think where Rome erred? What is the gospel proclamation? And where does Rome differ with this original gospel proclamation?

Chiefly in Justification, and it’s papal doctrines and Marian ones.

Kind regards

Lincs

 

[Lincoln7]

Mack,

Actually I wasn’t comparing Calvinistic theology to the Watchtower’s. There is no comparison there. But, there is a comparison to the form of interpretation they use. And when reading their writings, the feeling you get is the same. Of course this is a subjective feeling. But you can get caught up in the Watchtower logic and once you do it all seems scriptural and you feel, of course, that is what scripture is saying. I think it is the same way with Calvin. For me, it is hard to get inside his logic to begin with. There is something that pushes me away. Albeit that is subjective too.

Could not the same be said for your church though? Both have the ultimate authority not as scripture, but in the church leadership. His logic is indeed sometimes pretty hard going! I think it’s simply because a 400 year old text can sometimes be more wordy than we’re used too, but normally if I read slowly and thoughtfully I’m able to get what he is saying but yes you’re quite right, saying what we feel with authors is very subjective.

That is, for you. However, not for me. I am obviously one of the reprobate, therefore God did not send his son to die for me, nor welcome me into his family. No wonder the readings of Calvin do not bring out the Love of God for me.

Then my response to any poor believer who was stuck in such a position, which if often encountered, where the enemy will try to convince one there is no hope, would be to point them to the cross, where the love of God was shown, and tell them their fear is a demonstration they have a willingness to repent, that there is always hope for them, and that they display attitudes not in line with those who are either hypocrites or simply dismiss the gospel. They are truly seeking to love God. And trust in God in his sovereignty to act in their lives, with his love.

That’s why I keep asking the question, with no response. Are there any true believers in Calvinism who also believe they are of the reprobate?

true believers in Calvinism make it seem like I believe in Calvins doctrines rather than believing in the Gospel of Jesus Christ for my salvation…
I’m sure many many believers of Christ have at some point felt unforgivable and condemned, but the gospel tells us to confess our sins, as He is faithful and just to forgive them.

Lincs

 

[PRmerger]

You mean the one that Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden pretty much lead?

You are projecting your own Protestant reality into Catholicism, 1voice.

There is the teaching of the Church, and it is clear to all through the Catechism, encyclicals etc, and then there are those who have divorced themselves from these teachings.

They are like a wayward husband who has left his home, his children, his faithful wife, but still wants to come back and enjoy the marital bed every once in a while.

 

[Lochias]

Its completely on point. LOL!
You guys go on and on about who invented the rules … when in reality …anyone can believe anything and be accepted as a Catholic.

Balderdash. People who are living against the rules of the Faith aren’t living their Faith, period. What do you expect the rest of us to do, walk up and force them out of the Church buildings at gunpoint?

No, friend, they know what they are and aren’t doing wrong, and they’ll answer to God for it, which is the best answer the rest of us can give on the matter. It’s up to us to pray for them, that they might turn away from the dangerous road they’re walking.

And, just as an aside…“LOL!” does not an effective argument make. Rather makes you look like a kid on the 6th-grade playground, pointing his finger. Just sayin’, you’re running with the adults now.

 

[1voice]

You are right, but it is about jettisoning the Sacred Tradition, which by your posts, you indicate you know is valid. Curious.

Jesus himself “jettisoned” your “sacred” tradition.

 

[1voice]

People who are living against the rules of the Faith aren’t living their Faith, period.

I dont disagree.
That doesnt change the fact that Joe Biden is a Catholic with all the rights of a Catholic …and the Nancy Pelosi wing of the Catholic Church is strong enough to vote against any “sacred tradition” and win… and then proceed to attempt to redefine the constitutional definition of religion.

Reality is… It is (over 50% of voting) Catholics, by their clear choice, that created the problem they face in their fight to maintain their own Christian freedoms against a Govt that they, themselves, put into power (obama would have lost decisively without the Catholic vote)… When it was clear to any thinking Christian where Obama would try to force issues if given the chance.

The Christians that I associate with would never ever think of voting/ thinking like those fully accepted Catholics.

 

[Lochias]

I dont disagree.
That doesnt change the fact that Joe Biden is a Catholic with all the rights of a Catholic …and the Nancy Pelosi wing of the Catholic Church is strong enough to vote against any “sacred tradition” and win… and then proceed to attempt to redefine the constitutional definition of religion.

Reality is… It is Catholics, by their clear choice, that created the problem they face in their fight to maintain their own Christian freedoms.

The Christians that I associate with would never ever think of voting like a Catholic.

You don’t “vote against sacred tradition” in the Catholic Church. She can do whatever she likes, unfortunately, outside of the Church, but that doesn’t mean the Church endorses it. They know what they’re doing wrong, and it’s God who holds them accountable. “Vengeance is mine”, and all that good stuff.

Reality is, some Catholics aren’t living their faith. But it’s sheer, inexcusable ignorance and gall to lump all of us faithful Catholics in with those who aren’t, regardless of how much temporal power the unfaithful might have.

So, don’t. Unless you want to continue to come across looking like someone who’s…less than educated, in the matters at hand.

 

[Lochias]

And…

The Christians that I associate with would never ever think of voting like a Catholic.

“Christians I associate with”? How very elitist and un-Christian of you.

My faith holds the truth and power of 2000 years, all the way back to Jesus Christ Himself. While charity forbids me from making the comments I’d dearly love to, I’ll just say…I know which group I’d rather belong to.

Edit: I see you changed to “voting like those fully accepting Catholics.”

That I can get behind a little more. The Christians I associate with, at my local Catholic parish, wouldn’t either.

 

[Lochias]

Jesus himself “jettisoned” your “sacred” tradition.

No, Jesus jettisoned the old ways which were no longer needed. We follow what He DID create…Sacred Tradition.

That’s rather basic.

 

[Patavium]

Jesus himself “jettisoned” your “sacred” tradition.

Writing “Jesus “jettisoned” your “sacred” tradition” does not make it true. You need to show how Jesus jettisoned the apostolic tradition, He, himself, established right?. I mean open the Bible, Who are the apostles? What did they teach ORALLY? WORD OF MOUTH? ?? the teachings of Jesus Christ??

I am still waiting your arguments refuting Apostolic Tradition, friend.

Please help me open my eyes to my misunderstandings about apostolic tradition

Be Blessed!.

 

[1voice]

You don’t “vote against sacred tradition” in the Catholic Church.

Meanwhile…

In the real world … Nancy Pelosi/ Joe Biden Catholics have proven that they wield the power to drive a blatant frontal attack against all Christianity … While being fully Catholic.

 

[Lochias]

Meanwhile…

In the real world … Nancy Pelosi/ Joe Biden Catholics have proven that they wield the power to drive a blatant frontal attack against all Christianity … While being fully Catholic.

They can think they’re fully Catholic all they want to. Doesn’t change the truth.

And, I have faith in Jesus’ promise that the Church will stand. They can attack all they want. I can have this faith, because I have seen how faithful Jesus is to His Church.

2000 years and going strong, remember?

 

[Patavium]

Meanwhile…

In the real world … Nancy Pelosi/ Joe Biden Catholics have proven that they wield the power to drive a blatant frontal attack against all Christianity … While being fully Catholic.

Do you know what “being fully Catholic” means? How come you be Roman Catholic, and disobey the Roman Catholic Church teachings?

Why do you choose to believe Pelosi and Biden, and not the Bishops or the Pope of the Catholic Church?

Is it because it agrees with your distorted view of the Roman Catholic Church?