Does SSA = no vocation?

[LCMS_No_More]

As I understand it, there are three states in life, single, married and religious but there are only two real “vocations,” married life and religious life (both have sacramental graces attached to them!). Since a person with SSA is pretty much barred from married life and the same person, while not having canonical impediments from ordination (I checked), is not likely to be ordained, are people with SSA called to be “nothing?”

Aside from cleaning church bathrooms after a “code V” or “code D” (figure it out ) or otherwise unsavory tasks, what would such a horrific person such as myself (cursed with SSA) be counted worthy to do for the Kingdom?

 

[CollegeKid]

First of all, the Church doesn’t consider you to be in any state of sin whatsoever just because you suffer from SSA, so I don’t think the adjective “horrific” is an accurate way of describing how the Church views you. On the contrary, if you look up the topic in the Catechism it will tell you that any form of unjust discrimination against those with SSA is to be rejected, and that they are called to Christian perfection like anybody else, to be supported in healthy relationships with others. It is only sinful when one acts on a temptation that is not in conformity with nature as God intended it, such as engaging in homosexual relations.

Secondly, married and religious are not the only two vocations. There is a third- the single life. And yes, some people are called to it. Did you know that Condoleeza Rice is unmarried? When asked why, she responded that it would quite simply be unfair to a husband and children to put them through the duress of having to be family members to a woman whose whole life is her job.

I say this not because I have divine insight into the vocational “life plan” of Condi Rice but because she serves as an example that someone can, in fact, do something noble and of great service to others even if they are not married, a religious brother/sister, or a priest.

Another example might be someone who decides to remain single because they want to do missionary work in a foreign country, such as a member of the Legion of Mary who might go to Colombia to keep the protestant sects from leading more Catholics out of the Church.

 

[Corki]

You are confusing vocation and career. Janitorial work would be ones career. I believe that most individuals with “deep seated” SSA are called to the single state and to serve the church in that manner. As a single person, you could serve the Church in any way open to the laity with even more freedom than a lay married person could. Teach, feed the hungry, do prison ministry, work in a hospital, be a counselor, etc.

On the other hand, even though “deep seated” SSA is incompatible with the priestly vocation, I don’t think the Church has ever said any thing similar about individuals with SSA and other forms of religious life. For example, I don’t think they are barred from pursuing the permanant diaconate or from the monastic non-ordained orders (Brothers).

 

[fin]

is SSA similar to bipolar? i tried to search this online, but they didn’t give the complete term.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

is SSA similar to bipolar? i tried to search this online, but they didn’t give the complete term.

SSA = same-sex attracted

I don’t see how that could be related to bipolar unless you’re implying that people with SSA are crazy or somehow insane?

 

[fin]

to the last poster, thanks for the definition.
sorry, I didn’t know it meant same sex attraction. of course bipolar people aren’t crazy.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I know of no where that people who suffer from SSA are banned from the religious life.

The only ones who are banned are those who are actively engaging in sinful behavior, be that SSA or hetero. If one is involved in a sexual relationship outside of marriage then they should not enter religious life, which includes formation.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

(Circular Letter of S. C. of the Sacraments, n. 16; Canon Law Digest, 4, p. 314).

Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.

Perhaps looking at a lay institute? If these standards have not been abrogated, it would seem priestly and religous life would be out as an option.

 

[Dale_M]

This is from Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with Regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in View of Their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders, published in November 2005 by the Congregation for Catholic Education. The CCE oversees seminary formation.

In the light of such teaching, this dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practice homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture.”(10)

Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies.

Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem – for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.

zenit.org/article-14693?l=english

A candidate for the seminary must have affective maturity. “Such maturity will allow him to relate correctly to both men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood towards the Church community that will be entrusted to him.”

I think what is forbidden is a candidate who, lacking affective maturity, might feel sexually attracted to the men he encounters.

 

[vince2paul]

As I understand it, there are three states in life, single, married and religious but there are only two real “vocations,” married life and religious life (both have sacramental graces attached to them!). Since a person with SSA is pretty much barred from married life and the same person, while not having canonical impediments from ordination (I checked), is not likely to be ordained, are people with SSA called to be “nothing?”

Aside from cleaning church bathrooms after a “code V” or “code D” (figure it out ) or otherwise unsavory tasks, what would such a horrific person such as myself (cursed with SSA) be counted worthy to do for the Kingdom?

3 Vocations;

• Priesthood
• Married life
• Single Life (include religious life)

I think there are certain religious life which accepts people with SSA. Well, you might have single life vocation.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

3 Vocations;

• Priesthood
• Married life
• Single Life (include religious life)

I think there are certain religious life which accepts people with SSA. Well, you might have single life vocation.

Doing what?

That’s the real question here. What can I do to bring souls into the Kingdom? How can I use the gifts I have (affinity for language, ability to speak, ability to relate to people) to help save souls?

To be honest, my current job is totally unsatisfying. I don’t understand how listening to people complain all day long and dealing with the constant demands of a bureaucracy that is more interested in looking good and impressing politicians than fulfilling an important mission (to make workers safe) brings souls into the Kingdom.

I’m told that everyone has a calling but I see nothing for me right now. Since I’m cursed with SSA (which I most certainly didn’t choose!), it appears that it overrides every possiblity making me absolutely useless and of little to no worth to the Kingdom. I’d love to stand corrected but I just don’t see it.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Doing what?

That’s the real question here. What can I do to bring souls into the Kingdom? How can I use the gifts I have (affinity for language, ability to speak, ability to relate to people) to help save souls?

To be honest, my current job is totally unsatisfying. I don’t understand how listening to people complain all day long and dealing with the constant demands of a bureaucracy that is more interested in looking good and impressing politicians than fulfilling an important mission (to make workers safe) brings souls into the Kingdom.

I’m told that everyone has a calling but I see nothing for me right now. Since I’m cursed with SSA (which I most certainly didn’t choose!), it appears that it overrides every possiblity making me absolutely useless and of little to no worth to the Kingdom. I’d love to stand corrected but I just don’t see it.

In all sincerity and with filial love and affection I would like to offer the suggestion that this may be an issue best taken up with a confessor/spiritual father. Through your mutual prayers and his counsel, direction will be found.

Catholic Answer’s forums can only answer so much - on here you will invariably get a mixed bag of well meant responses, but it is more of a starting poing than a destination for advice on something of this nature. It is going to take much additional effort, to be sure. But regular confession, Mass attendence and the counseling of a good spiritual father/confessor who comes to know you and help you know yourself will be key.

And for the record, the idea that you are “useless” is utterly repugnant to me. God didn’t make trash. He has a plan for you. There is no way you are useless. NO WAY.

Hang in there.

 

[vince2paul]

I think it’s for you to discern. Actually, I would see it as a gift instead of curse. Why? because it makes you different. Usually, SSA people are more sensitive to other people needs. Henri Nouwen had SSA also and yet he could be who he was.
Pray and ask God for direction.
Time to go now, late for All Saints’ day Mass!

Doing what?

That’s the real question here. What can I do to bring souls into the Kingdom? How can I use the gifts I have (affinity for language, ability to speak, ability to relate to people) to help save souls?

To be honest, my current job is totally unsatisfying. I don’t understand how listening to people complain all day long and dealing with the constant demands of a bureaucracy that is more interested in looking good and impressing politicians than fulfilling an important mission (to make workers safe) brings souls into the Kingdom.

I’m told that everyone has a calling but I see nothing for me right now. Since I’m cursed with SSA (which I most certainly didn’t choose!), it appears that it overrides every possiblity making me absolutely useless and of little to no worth to the Kingdom. I’d love to stand corrected but I just don’t see it.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I think it’s for you to discern. Actually, I would see it as a gift instead of curse. Why? because it makes you different. Usually, SSA people are more sensitive to other people needs. Henri Nouwen had SSA also and yet he could be who he was.
Pray and ask God for direction.
Time to go now, late for All Saints’ day Mass!

I am not entirely comfortable with attributing any distincitve characterisitcs - positive or negative - to someone based on their struggles with certain temptations.

I guess I would say that if anything, struggling mightily with a temptation can help you to empathize and sympathize with other folks that have similar ungoing struggle.

 

[jc-servant]

Doing what?

That’s the real question here. What can I do to bring souls into the Kingdom? How can I use the gifts I have (affinity for language, ability to speak, ability to relate to people) to help save souls?

SSA just means that your vocation is not marriage. As some others have said it does not always preclude a religious vocation. You might be called to be single and celibate or religious and celibate. It does not sound like you have actually been through a discernment process to find your true “vocation.” Therefore, you would not know if your vocation is single or religious life. A spiritual director or any priest could guide you to books to read on the subject of discerning God’s will in general and specifically for vocations.

Regardless of your vocation there are some things that all Catholics can and should do to brings souls to the Kingdom. Learn as much about the true teachings of the church as you can and share them when an appropriate opening arises. Read your Bible. Live your life in a chaste and holy manner according to your station in life and you will evangelize by your mere presence in the world.

I’m a single woman who makes no secret that I will remain chaste. I wear my medals and cross which may or may not show at my neckline. I don’t hide that I’m a Catholic.

To be honest, my current job is totally unsatisfying. I don’t understand how listening to people complain all day long and dealing with the constant demands of a bureaucracy that is more interested in looking good and impressing politicians than fulfilling an important mission (to make workers safe) brings souls into the Kingdom.

If you are a well-prepared Catholic, there are opportunities to do God’s work everywhere and even at a government job. I’ll share one dramatic moment I was a part of. I was working for the state police and shared an office with a trooper for a while. She was a strong Christian (but not Catholic). A lady came in for help getting a 15 year old boy a hardship driver’s license because he had gotten her daughter pregnant. He needed it to take her to appointments and to get a part-time job due to the bad circumstances in both families. His family had abandoned him. This mother was distraught.

The trooper had her sit in our office while she gathered some papers in another room. The lady heard a contemporary Catholic music cd that we had playing softly. It was “Through the Storm” by Curtis Stephan. The music touched her so much that she asked to move closer to the cd-player. She asked if we were Christians and started crying. She said that she was at the end of her rope and she had awakened asking God for a sign that He was with her.

The lady then spilled the story of why the young man needed the license. The trooper was very brave and asked if the lady would like us to pray with her for a minute. It was just the 3 of us in our office. The lady sobbed, “yes, please.” We each held a hand and placed a hand on a shoulder and prayed for her to have God’s guidance and strength. The trooper then helped her with the real business.

Before she left the lady asked for the cd info so that she could listen to it daily. A week later she showed up and brought us Starbucks and a thank you because she said that day turned everything around for her and her family.

I’m told that everyone has a calling but I see nothing for me right now. Since I’m cursed with SSA (which I most certainly didn’t choose!), it appears that it overrides every possiblity making me absolutely useless and of little to no worth to the Kingdom. I’d love to stand corrected but I just don’t see it.

We are all called to holiness no matter our vocation, so maybe that is where you can shift your focus until you do some discernment about the vocation issue.

It sounds like part of your frustration and possibly depressed mood is due to poor job satisfaction. This is not the same thing as not knowing your vocation. I’m a government drone myself, but I can find moments of satisfaction in doing my own job well. I help as many people as I can, when I can. I get my real enjoyment and sense of accomplishment through volunteering at church and other places.

I think that you have many gifts that can be offered back to God in many ways. I bet Catholic Charities would love to have someone with language skills even as a part-time volunteer. They have refugees from many countries who need help all over the US when they are resettled.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

The Reading is from St. Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians 12:27-31;13:1-8

Brethren, you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way. If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

This is the daily reading in my parish’s lectionary from today. I thought of the OP when I heard it.

I am not a scholar - anyone can correct me on this if I am wrong, please do. But I think this passage speaks in a way to the OPs question. Not all have any certain charism or gift or role to play. (Some do some things, others do others…) but there is a role there to be found.

Keep praying and HAVE FAITH.

 

[m134e5]

Some things to remember…

1.) Homosexuality is **NOT **an impediment to ordination. I know there have been some documents here and there saying it is a bad idea, and I’m not disregarding those…there are certain things (murder, having physically attacked clergy, participating in an abortion- which is also murder of course, etc.) that are canonical impediments to ordination. Homosexuality is not one of those canonical impediments.

2.) It is a matter to be discussed between one’s spiritual director/confessor. Any advice given on this board must be taken with the understanding that most people here are not theologians or spiritual directors.

3.) Everyone has a vocation, and our only worthwhile mission on Earth is to find and follow that vocation- so that we may “know, love, and serve God in this life, and be happy with Him forever in the next”. If your vocation is not the priesthood, it is not because of SSA- if it isn’t your vocation, it is simply because God is calling you to other things. If it is your vocation, and you persevere (especially in your prayer life), nobody will be able to stop you.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Some things to remember…

1.) Homosexuality is **NOT **an impediment to ordination. I know there have been some documents here and there saying it is a bad idea, and I’m not disregarding those…there are certain things (murder, having physically attacked clergy, participating in an abortion- which is also murder of course, etc.) that are canonical impediments to ordination. Homosexuality is not one of those canonical impediments.

That seems to fly in the face of Vatican directives.

Pope approves barring gay seminarians

Vatican, Sep. 22, 2005 (CWNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) has given his approval to a new Vatican policy document indicating that men with homosexual tendencies should not be ordained as Catholic priests.

The new document-- which was prepared by the Congregation for Catholic Education, in response to a request made by the late Pope John Paul II (bio - news) in 1994-- will be published soon. It will take the form of an “Instruction,” signed by the prefect and secretary of the Congregation: Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski and Archbishop Michael Miller.

The text, which was approved by Pope Benedict at the end of August, says that homosexual men should not be admitted to seminaries even if they are celibate, because their condition suggests a serious personality disorder which detracts from their ability to serve as ministers.

Priests who have already been ordained, if they suffer from homosexual impulses, are strongly urged to renew their dedication to chastity, and a manner of life appropriate to the priesthood.

The Instruction does not represent a change in Church teaching or policy. Catholic leaders have consistently taught that homosexual men should not be ordained to the priesthood. Pope John XXIII approved a formal policy to that effect, which still remains in effect. However, during the 1970s and 1980s, that policy was widely ignored, particularly in North America. The resulting crisis in the priesthood-- in which one prominent American commentator observed that the priesthood was coming to be seen as a “gay” profession-- prompted Pope John Paul II to call for a new study on the question.

The Congregation for Catholic Education prepared the Instruction after soliciting advice from all of the world’s bishops, from psychologists, and from moral theologians. A draft of the Instruction was then circulated among the Vatican dicasteries concerned with the issue, notably including the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The pending release of the Instruction, in the face of certain criticism from liberal forces in America and Western Europe, demonstrates the determination of the Vatican to improve the quality of priestly ministry, and to protect the Church from some of the scandals that have recently shaken the Catholic community-- and no doubt deterred many men from entering priestly training.

Informed sources in Rome indicate that the Instruction probably will be made public after the Synod of Bishops, which meets in Rome from October 2 through 23.

 

[TMC]

That seems to fly in the face of Vatican directives.

An understandable comment, but the news stories right after the new document was published were all over the map and not generally accurate.

This is what the English prelate had to say about it:

The Instruction is not saying than men of homosexual orientation are not welcome in the priesthood. But it is making clear that they must be capable of affective maturity, have a capacity for celibacy and not share the values of the eroticised gay culture. This is especially important because seminaries are all-male environments.

I believe that the USCCB has said something similar and that they require a period of years of celibacy before admitting homosexual candidates. I’m sure your priest would be happy to direct you to your diocese’s vocations director for more info.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

An understandable comment, but the news stories right after the new document was published were all over the map and not generally accurate.

That was from the Catholic News Service. I read the document in English when it came out and it seemed rather clear. I will try to find the doc online for a link.

As to the bishops?

This is what the English prelate had to say about it:

I believe that the USCCB has said something similar and that they require a period of years of celibacy before admitting homosexual candidates. I’m sure your priest would be happy to direct you to your diocese’s vocations director for more info.

I don’t mean to be curt or dismissive, but looking at how the USCCB has handled Roman initiatives in the last 40 years, I don’t trust them a great deal with what seems to be a rather novel and nuanced interpretation of a rather clear document.

Looking at how widely they ignored Bl. John XXIIIs directive, that some are seeking wiggle room or plan to ignore this document - pretty much a re-iteration of the on-the-books policy - comes as no suprise.