Does the bible interprete itself?

[Christy_Beth]

I have a friend who insist that it does, and that we can’t trust anyone to teach us what it means. People are falliable (sp?), so we can’t follow them because we won’t know if they are leading us in the right direction.

I find this very annoying. Of course some of her other beliefs are way out there as well. According to her, the reason the weather is so weird is because the government is controlling it. Oh, and it will be the catholics who will take over, and rule, the world.

Any ideas on how to handle this?

 

[SarahR]

Just me and the Holy Spirit, right? that argument. So everyone who disagrees with her interpretation/I mean understanding, is wrong?

 

[Spirithound]

I have a friend who insist that it does, and that we can’t trust anyone to teach us what it means. People are falliable (sp?), so we can’t follow them because we won’t know if they are leading us in the right direction.

Any ideas on how to handle this?

The Bible is physically incapable of interpreting itself. Interpretation involves communication, and none of the Bibles I have can speak. She wants to get other verses to back up other verses, which is a good strategy, but the knowledge required to know which verses to use is still proper to humans, and unless you’re appealing to the infallibility of the Church, it’s still fallible.

 

[Joe_5859]

I have a friend who insist that it does, and that we can’t trust anyone to teach us what it means. People are falliable (sp?), so we can’t follow them because we won’t know if they are leading us in the right direction.

I find this very annoying. Of course some of her other beliefs are way out there as well. According to her, the reason the weather is so weird is because the government is controlling it. Oh, and it will be the catholics who will take over, and rule, the world.

Any ideas on how to handle this?

If someone is willing to believe that the government controls the weather (when they can’t even control the gas prices! ), then I would wonder whether anything you say could make any difference whatsoever.

Of course, you could always point to Acts 8:30-31 with Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch (“How can I understand what I’m reading unless some one guides me?”) Of course, she may counter by saying that it is only the Holy Spirit that can guide a person. This, of course, is not what happens in this passage. It is quite clear that the Spirit is working through Philip in order to teach the eunuch about the meaning of Scripture (as the rest of the passage clearly bears out).

From a philosophical standpoint, you could try going the “relativism” route. If we can only rely on the “Spirit”, in practice, this leads to us only relying upon our (fallible) selves (which is why so many people disagree on the meaning of particular passages). How can we, as fallible human beings, infallibly know exactly what the Spirit is saying to us through the Scripture? If it was that easy, then everyone would interpret Scripture in exactly the same way. How can we tell when we are correctly listening to what the Spirit is saying versus interjecting our own fallible interpretations? Of course, the answer is the Church, which God has left to us to be just such an infallible interpreter. If the Church did not fill this role, we would have to question why God did not make it easier for us to know what Scripture means. (If she claims that it is easy, then you can counter by asking why there are so many different Christian groups that interpret Scripture passages to mean opposite things.)

Of course, for someone who is a conspiracy-theorist, even simple logic can fall on deaf ears. But it’s worth a shot!

 

[COPLAND_3]

The Bible should be used to interpret itself, but, it takes someone to do that, the Church. The Bible should not be interpreted without putting it into context with the rest of the Bible, and the Catholic Church has that authority to do so. So we as Catholics need to be careful to not appear that we are somehow against using Scripture to interpret Scripture, because that is a Catholic technique for intepreting the Bible. the dividing line between us and Protestants is that we believe in an authoritative interpreter for Scripture, whereas Protestants usually believe that all Christians have the same authority.

 

[Joe_5859]

The Bible should be used to interpret itself, but, it takes someone to do that, the Church. The Bible should not be interpreted without putting it into context with the rest of the Bible, and the Catholic Church has that authority to do so. So we as Catholics need to be careful to not appear that we are somehow against using Scripture to interpret Scripture, because that is a Catholic technique for intepreting the Bible. the dividing line between us and Protestants is that we believe in an authoritative interpreter for Scripture, whereas Protestants usually believe that all Christians have the same authority.

Great point to keep in mind! Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

 

[inthecloud]

Modern comunication science states that no language, code or text can interpret himself.
You need a transmiter and a receptor that actually interpret the message.
Same for human comunication. Even the Bible. The human transmiter operating under the Holy Spirit send a message=The Bible= it requires a codebreaker that will receive and interpret the message. The reader. But each reader have different cultural codebreaking codes. So you will end with several billions of dozen interpretations of the message, as happened to Protestantism. The Church role is to make the codebreaking mechanism uniform.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

Where does she think the Bible came from? It is a product of several Church councils that determined what the canon of Holy Scripture would be. If the Church is able to determine what should be in the Bible, shouldn’t that same Church be able to interpret what’s in the Bible?

And, by the way, the Catholic Church has no desire to rule the world. And do you really think our government can control anything, much less the weather?

 

[COPLAND_3]

This lady that is the topic of error seems to have a radical liberal view. My former boss was one of those who jumped to the side of ‘Jesus quotes only’ and had a very negative view of St. Paul, and even rejected his epistles. I pointed out to him that Jesus gave special authority to St. Peter (Matt. 16:18), and St. Peter referred to Paul’s letters as Scripture (2Peter 3:16). He had no answer, but he was not truly interested in seeking the truth, just his agenda.

It is hard not to get discouraged by making little or no progress with people like that, but it is not your fault. Some people are not ready, and unfortunately some people will just not submit to truth. It is a gift from God to have the heart to say “God, take me wherever you want me to go, even if it means that I have to leave the philosophy that I have stood for in the past to follow Your Way.” It takes more humility than what some people are willing to give in to.

 

[RobHom]

I have a friend who insist that it does, and that we can’t trust anyone to teach us what it means. People are falliable (sp?), so we can’t follow them because we won’t know if they are leading us in the right direction.

That is a pretty standard non-Catholic “rationale” for coming up with whatever “interpretation” you choose to use to suit your own particular desires and agenda(s). Its as bogus as the notion that pigs can fly and chickens all have lips.

I find this very annoying. Of course some of her other beliefs are way out there as well. According to her, the reason the weather is so weird is because the government is controlling it. Oh, and it will be the catholics who will take over, and rule, the world.

My “evil twin” would probably suggest that you buy her a fresh roll of Reynolds aluminum foil (industrial size and strength) so she can make a new hat… But the real me thinks that maybe she is getting some wrong information from some very dubious sources.

Any ideas on how to handle this?

My “evil twin” would probably suggest that you practice shrugging your shoulders and repeating the word Whatever!! But the real me…thinks that maybe you should be prepared to set some boundaries and keep some space clear around you. I would have to wonder what it was that caused this person to be so gullible as to buy into this kind of hoo-doo and nonsense.

Is this, or has this person demonstrated strange behaviors before this?

One other thing, and all humor aside…ask her what she “interprets” this following scripture from 2 Peter 1:20 to mean:

20 Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.

If her “interpretation” does not agree with the following:

20 “No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation”… This shows plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.

She is then treading on quicksand… Whether or not you can successfully communicate with her will depend on her. If not, then you may be caused to make decisions… I have known people like that…and they can be frustrating and drive you to distraction. BOL!!

 

[Christy_Beth]

Well, she wears one of those caps like Mennonite women wear. I first saw her on the bus and asked her if she was one. Which she isn’t. She believes in “home church.” After all, that’s how they did it back then. My concern is, don’t these people know that they need others around for fellowship? If it weren’t for some of her strange beliefs, she is a nice person. Just kind of nutty.

 

[VociMike]

The Bible is physically incapable of interpreting itself. Interpretation involves communication, and none of the Bibles I have can speak. She wants to get other verses to back up other verses, which is a good strategy, but the knowledge required to know which verses to use is still proper to humans, and unless you’re appealing to the infallibility of the Church, it’s still fallible.

I’d be tempted to put a bible on the table in front of her and ask her to demonstrate it interpreting itself.

The phrase itself is gibberish. It’s one of those “oooh!” phrases that has no meaning.

 

[RobHom]

Well, she wears one of those caps like Mennonite women wear. I first saw her on the bus and asked her if she was one. Which she isn’t. She believes in “home church.” After all, that’s how they did it back then. My concern is, don’t these people know that they need others around for fellowship? If it weren’t for some of her strange beliefs, she is a nice person. Just kind of nutty.

I am beginning to get a vague notion that the possibility exists that she may be involved in a very small and tight group of people that well, may just resemble something of a “cult” of some sort. Hard to tell…but you have mentioned a few things that could be “indicative”. Not sure, but it sounds like a “possibility”.

 

[KingAlfred]

I have a friend who insist that it does, and that we can’t trust anyone to teach us what it means. People are falliable (sp?), so we can’t follow them because we won’t know if they are leading us in the right direction.

I find this very annoying. Of course some of her other beliefs are way out there as well. According to her, the reason the weather is so weird is because the government is controlling it. Oh, and it will be the catholics who will take over, and rule, the world.

Any ideas on how to handle this?

The Bible is well-balanced, at least with regard to the New Testament. The Church selected its contents specifically to achieve that effect. For example, the Church anticipated ‘Lutheran-type’ problems, if you will, with reference to Paul’s emphasis on salvation by faith alone, and attempted to counter them by incorporating the Book of James, which emphasizes salvation through good works. Understandably, Martin Luther hated the Book of James, even though he also taught ‘sola scriptura’ (totally illogically, of course). So yes, in some ways the Bible does ‘interpret’ itself; in other words, it’s balanced, universal and complete.

Accordingly, it’s technically impossible to derive extremist views from the Bible, as a whole. There will always be some parts of it that counter, if not negate, whatever extreme arguments one might find elswhere in the document (actually, library). Extreme Fundies, for example, believe they’ve mastered the Bible for purposes of asserting its ‘sole authority’, when in actuality they haven’t mastered it at all. If they had, they’d realize that for every hardcore, supposedly exclusive argument they make, based on the Bible, there are many more that argue against such extremism in the same source. They just haven’t dug deeply enough, or have chosen to ignore the other parts.The Bible is an ingenius library, but for reasons most practitioners of literal interpretation can’t grasp.

 

[Christy_Beth]

Thanks, guys. At one point in the past we decided to lay off for awhile because of our difference in faith. I guess it’s about time for me to tell her to stop spouting off her garbage again.

 

[JimG]

The Bible is physically incapable of interpreting itself. Interpretation involves communication, and none of the Bibles I have can speak.

That’s right. The bible can’t speak; it can’t interpret; it can’t explain, it can’t teach.
It’s an inanimate object. People do all those things.

And since people are fallible and can’t be trusted, as the OP’s friend insists, obviously she is also fallible and can’t be trusted to interpret correctly either.

But, Jesus did establish a Church to solve this problem…

 

[Christy_Beth]

Too bad she considers the church to be evil. You know the drill. “The Whore of Babylon.” :yawn:

 

[KingAlfred]

That’s right. The bible can’t speak; it can’t interpret; it can’t explain, it can’t teach.
It’s an inanimate object. People do all those things.

And since people are fallible and can’t be trusted, as the OP’s friend insists, obviously she is also fallible and can’t be trusted to interpret correctly either.

But, Jesus did establish a Church to solve this problem…

The Bible is beautiful religious literature, and a major cornerstone of the Catholic religion, as we all know.

 

[JimG]

The Bible is beautiful religious literature, and a major cornerstone of the Catholic religion, as we all know.

I can certainly agree with that. I even believe that the bible is materially sufficient in containing all that we need to know for salvation. And the original authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write what they wrote.

It’s just that I haven’t seen the book lead a discussion group all by itself lately.

 

[Mimi]

I have a friend who insist that it does, and that we can’t trust anyone to teach us what it means. People are falliable (sp?), so we can’t follow them because we won’t know if they are leading us in the right direction.

I find this very annoying. Of course some of her other beliefs are way out there as well. According to her, the reason the weather is so weird is because the government is controlling it. Oh, and it will be the catholics who will take over, and rule, the world.

Any ideas on how to handle this?

Hi Christy Beth and all,

I would pray for her, first of all; that the Holy Spirit would lead her, through the study of Holy Scripture to the Church that He founded.

I wonder, though, what she would do if you turned to the Table of Contents of her Bible and ask, “Where in the scriptures does it say what writings should be in between these covers?” That may get her to start thinking of another topic anyway.

So many are spiritually hungry they will listen to just about anyone these days.

God bless,
Mimi