Does the Bible teach geocentrism?

[Windfish]

I’ve done a search on catholic.com but have found nothing. I imagine this is an easy question to answer, so I pose to all of you.

 

[John7]

With respect to the second person of trinity’s actions for us in effecting salvation I think earth is ‘centric’, a one time event in history of universe (ie cross/death & resurrection of Jesus), IMO.

Can’t find any verses to support, I’ll keep searching

 

[Windfish]

With respect to the second person of trinity’s actions for us in effecting salvation I think earth is ‘centric’, a one time event in history of universe (ie cross/death & resurrection of Jesus), IMO.

Can’t find any verses to support, I’ll keep searching

Geocentrism is the theory that the earth is the center of the universe and that all other celestial bodies orbit it. This is a common criticism skeptics lodge against the Bible, and I am wondering if it is even true.

 

[thistle]

I’ve done a search on catholic.com but have found nothing. I imagine this is an easy question to answer, so I pose to all of you.

Its not in Scripture.
Its not a Church teaching.

 

[Windfish]

Its not in Scripture.
Its not a Church teaching.

I hope you are right!

Philippines, huh? How are you holding up over there?

 

[thistle]

I hope you are right!

Philippines, huh? How are you holding up over there?

I love this country and its people.
Also being 85% Catholic everybody (well not the muslims) talks daily to someone about Christ and his Mother. Faith really is part of daily life here and nobody is embarassed to talk about it, whether its in the office, at home, business meetings or whenever.
In many of the office blocks in Manila there are small chapels where office workers can go to spend time in prayer on breaks, at lunchtime, after work.

 

[TMC]

I’ve done a search on catholic.com but have found nothing. I imagine this is an easy question to answer, so I pose to all of you.

No, it does not.

 

[excubitor]

It most certainly does.
Here is a list of scriptures from the scripturecatholic.com. Good on ya John Salza. I cannot tell you enough how wonderful your site has been and what a huge influence it was in my conversion from protestantism to catholicism. I hope you dont mind me reproducing this list of scriptures.
scripturecatholic.com/geocentrism.html

1 Sam. 2:8 – “For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world.”

2 Sam. 22:16; Psalm 18:15 – “Then the channels of the sea were seen, the foundations of the world were laid bare…” (Describing the earth as having “foundations” is consistent with an earth that is fixed and established and does not move, as many Scriptures reveal).

1 Chron. 16:30 – “yea, the world stands firm, never to be moved.” This and many other passages say very plainly that the earth does not move.

Job 26:7 – “He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon nothing.”

Job 38:4; cf. Job 9:6 – “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?”

Psalm 8:29 – “…when he marked out the foundations of the earth.”

Psalm 93:1 – “Yea, the world is established; it shall never be moved.”

Psalm 96:10 – “Yea, the world is established, it shall never be moved.”

Psalm 102:25 – “Of old thou didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of thy hands.”

Psalm 104:5 – “Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.”

Psalm 119:90 – “thou has established the earth, and it stands firm.”

Isaiah 24:18 – “…for the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.”

Isaiah 48:13 – “My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens…”

Isaiah 66:1 – “Thus says the Lord: ‘Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool.”

When the Scriptures say the world is “established” (in Hebrew, “kun”), it indicates that the establishment is ongoing. See, for example, 1 Chron. 22:10, Judges 16:26,29 and Ezra 3:3 where “kun” is used to explain an ongoing lack of motion.

The only time Scripture says the earth will “move” (in Hebrew, “mot” - see “mot” in Job 41:23; Psalm 125:1; 140:10; and Isa. 41:7) is in the context of the end of the world, where God will come in judgment (e.g. Psalm 76:8). This coincides with the apocalyptic literature of, inter alia, Matt. 24:29-30 and 2 Peter 3:10-13, but never suggests actual motion.

Gen. 1:1-5; 14-19 - God created the earth on the first day, and the sun, moon and stars on the fourth day. God created them to “give light upon the earth.” The heavenly bodies were therefore created for the earth, to adorn it, and to mark its seasons. The earth is God’s focal point. This ordering is another indicator that the earth is the center of the universe. How could the sun be the center, if it wasn’t created until the fourth day? This also raises the question: How did the earth have “evening and morning” on days one to three, before the sun was created on day four? Scripture reveals this is because the universe has light that is independent of the sun and stars. In fact, St. Thomas Aquinas hypothesized that God created the sun and stars on day four from this effusive light that He created on day one (just like God created man on day six from the dirt He created on day one). This effusive light is what brought about the “evening and morning” periods of days one through three.

Job 38:18-20,24 – in these verses, although Job knows the sun gives light, God asks Job “where is the way to the dwelling of light” and “where is the way the light is divided?” Job cannot answer God’s questions. Why can’t he, if Job knows that the sun gives light? God is referring to the light He created without any dimensional source. For example, Psalm 74:16 says “You have prepared the light and the sun,” which distinguishes the two sources of light. Ecclesiastes 12:1-2 also says “Remember your Creator…before the sun and the light, and the moon and the stars are darkened.” The sacred writer distinguishes between “the sun” and “the light,” and also indicates that there are four separate sources of light.

Gen. 1:1; 2:1,4; Psalm 113:6; Jer. 10:11; 32:17; 51:48; Joel 3:16; Hag. 2:6,21; Jud. 13:18; cf. Psalm 102:25; Isaiah 24:18; 48:13 – here are some examples where God distinguishes “between the heavens and the earth.” The earth is unique and distinguishable from the rest of the heavens.

Gen. 14:19,22; Ex. 20:11; 31:17; Deut. 4:26; 30:19; 31:28; 2 Sam. 18:9; 2 Kings 19:15; 2 Chron. 2:2; Ez. 5:11; Psalms 69:34; 115:15; 121:2; 124:8; 134:3; 146:6; Isaiah 37:16; Jer. 23:24; 33:25; 4 Ez. 2:14; 6:38; Tob. 7:18; 1 Macc. 2:37; Jud. 7:28; 9:12; Matt. 5:18; 11:25; 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 10:21; 16:17; 21:33; Acts 17:24; Rev. 14:7; cf. Matt. 28:18; Eph. 4:8-10; Phil. 2:10; Col. 1:16 – more examples where God distinguishes between “heaven and earth.” The Scriptures clearly teach that the earth is unique among the rest of the universe.

John 17:24 – Jesus says “…behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world.” Jesus’ language also suggests a world that has a firm, unmovable foundation.

 

[excubitor]

More from scripturecatholic.
scripturecatholic.com/geocentrism.html

II. The Sun, Moon and Stars Move

Joshua 10:12-14 – “Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, ‘Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon.’ And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. There has been no day like it before or since, when the Lord hearkened to the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.” This is the most powerful passage which supports a geocentric view of the universe. This passage clearly says that both the sun and moon stopped moving. This is the literal reading of the passage, and the passage does not warrant a figurative or phenomenological interpretation. Why? First, the book of Joshua was written to record actual historical events in the history of Israel (as opposed to figurative or poetic literature found elsewhere in Scripture), and there is no compelling reason to interpret it other than literally. Second, heliocentrists believe the moon moves. Therefore, it would be contradictory for them to claim that Joshua told the moon to stand still literally, but told the sun to stand still figuratively. The most reasonable conclusion is that both the moon and sun were moving, and both the moon and sun stopped moving at Joshua’s command. Finally, Joshua records that the sun stopped over Gibeon, while the moon stopped over Aijalon. These are two distinct points on the earth which confirm the coordinates of cessation of movement of the sun and moon. There are other Scriptures which also indicate that the sun, moon and stars are moving:

Judges 5:20 – “From heaven fought the stars, from their courses they fought against Sisera.”

Judges 5:31 – “So perish all thine enemies, O Lord! But thy friends be like the sun as he rises in his might.”

2 Kings 20:11 – “And Isaiah the prophet cried to the Lord; and he brought the shadow back ten steps, by which the sun had declined on the dial of Ahaz.”

Job 9:7 – “who commands the sun, and it does not rise.”

Psalm 19:5-6 – “In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridgegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs its course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.”

Psalm 104:19 – “Thou hast made the moon to mark the seasons; the sun knows its time for setting.”

Eccles. 1:5 – “The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.”

Wis. 13:2 – “but they supposed that either fire or wind or swift air, or the circle of the stars, or turbulent water, or the luminaries of heaven were the gods that rule the world.”

Sir. 43:2 – “The sun, when it appears, making proclamation as it goes forth, is a marvelous instrument, the work of the Most High.”

Sir. 43:5 – “Great is the Lord who made it; and at his command it hastens on its course.”

Sir. 46:4 – “Was not the sun held back by his hand? And did not one day become as long as two?”

Isaiah 38:7-8 – “This is the sign to you from the Lord, that the Lord will do this thing that he has promised: Behold, I will make the shadow cast by the declining sun on the dial of Ahaz turn back ten steps. So the sun turned back on the dial the ten steps by which it had declined.”

Hab. 3:11 – “The sun and moon stood still in their habitation, at the light of thine arrows as they sped, at the flash of they glittering spear.”

1 Esdras 4:34 – “The earth is vast, and heaven is high, and the sun is swift in its course, for it makes the circuit of the heavens and returns to its place in one day.”

James 1:11 – “for the sun rises with its scorching heat…”

Jude 13: - “wandering stars for whom the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.” A “wandering star” is called a “planet.” If the earth does not wander, it is not a planet.

Mark 16:2 – the Apostle says “And very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb when the sun had risen.” Mark is drawing a clear parallel between the risen sun and the risen Son at this poignant moment when the women discovered that Jesus had risen from the dead. Just as the sun rises literally, so Jesus rose literally as well. Scripture also refers to Jesus as the “Sun of Justice” (see Mal. 4:2).

Gen. 1:14-15, 17 – God said, “let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens”; and “God set them in the firmament of the heavens.” Geocentrists generally believe that God placed the stars and planets in the “firmament” (which scientists often call the “aether”) described by Moses in Genesis. The firmament is a shell containing the heavenly bodies and rotates around a fixed earth.

Gen. 15:12,17; 19:23; 28:11; 32:31; Ex. 17:12: 22:3,26; Lev. 22:7; Num. 2:3; Deut. 11:30; 16:6; 23:11; 24:13; 24:15; Josh. 1:4; 8:29; 10:12,13,27; 12:1; Judges 9:33; 14:18; 19:14; 2 Sam. 2:24; 3:35; 23:4; 1 Kings 22:36; 2 Chron. 18:34; Psalm 50:1; 104:22; 113:3; Isa. 13:10; 41:25; 45:6; 59:19; 60:20; Jer. 15:9; Dan. 6:14; Amos 8:9; Jonah 4:8; Mic. 3:6; Nah. 3:17; Mal. 1:11; Matt. 5:45; 13:6; Mark 1:32; 4:6; 16:2; Luke 4:40; Eph. 4:26 – more examples where the sun “rises,” “sets,” “goes up,” and “goes down.”

 

[Windfish]

No, it does not.

What do you make of excubitor’s citations, then. I am not much of a scripture scholar, so I appeal to your help.

(By the way, thank you, excubitor.)

 

[TMC]

What do you make of excubitor’s citations, then. I am not much of a scripture scholar, so I appeal to your help.

(By the way, thank you, excubitor.)

Scripture is full of observations and commentary on the natural world, but Scripture does not “teach” on those topics. For example, Jesus refers to the mustard seed as “smaller than all the seeds,” but we know that the mustard seed is not the smallest seed. Christ was making a point about the Kingdom of God, not teaching botany.

A very few fundamentalist sects insist on geocentrism, and a very few modern Catholics have inexplicably decided they must agree with our fundamentalist brothers on this point. But that is not the position of the Catholic Church, the Church does not teach that Scripture points to geocentrism. To the contrary, the Church owns and operates an astronomical observatory and is big supporter of the continued scientific exploration of our universe.

To be clear, to my knowledge the Church has not said that a good Catholic cannot believe in geocentrism, but the Church does not teach geocentrism or believe that anything in Scripture mandates such a belief.

 

[patg]

What do you make of excubitor’s citations, then. I am not much of a scripture scholar, so I appeal to your help.

Those quotes reflect the ancient world’s concept of the “three-tiered universe” - the flat disk of the earth covered with a domed sky (like an inverted bowl) with heaven on the other side of the bowl. The various celestial object moved on the surface on the bowl and the earth was supported by some sort of pillars.

The texts are not “teaching” this as something one must believe, rather, they are merely referencing the commonly held (mis)understanding as to how things were. They are also not “lying” when they speak of this as they are telling what they assumed to be the truth.

As Dei Verbum dogmatically states:

The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms* in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture**. For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another. *

 

[Michael_Francis]

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