Does the catholic church believe in the rapture?

[Salmon]

From ScriptureCatholic

II. The Rapture

1 Thess. 4:17 - Paul writes that “we will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Many Protestants call this experience the “rapture” (even though the word “rapture” is not found in the Bible). This theory says that Christ will take the faithful up to heaven before the final coming.

John 14:3; 1 Cor. 15:52 - these are other passages that Protestants use to support the rapture experience. The problem with the rapture theory is that is assumes three comings of Christ. This is contrary to Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.

Heb. 9:24 - instead, the Scriptures are clear that “Christ will appear only a second time, when he comes in glory to save us.” See also Rev. 19:11-16. The Scriptures only reveal two comings of Christ.

2 Thess. 2:1-4 - concerning the coming of the Lord, there will be a time of great trouble. As part of their rapture theory, Protestants call this period the “tribulation.”

1 Thess. 4:17; 2 Thess. 2:1-4 - the question is when the rapture will occur. Will it occur before (pre), during (mid) or after (post) the tribulation?

Rev. 20:2-3; 7 - these verses refer to the thousand year period where satan is bound and Christ reigns. Protestants often called this period the “millennium.” However, the “thousand” year period only means a very long time. It, like much of apocalyptic literature, is not to be taken literally.

Psalm 50:10 - for example, we see the cattle on a “thousand hills.” The word “thousand” here obviously means a very long time. It cannot be taken literally. This is the same with the “thousand” used in the Apocalypse.

Dan. 7:10 - a “thousand thousands” served him. Again, “thousand” means a lot. It is not to be taken literally.

2 Peter 3:8 - with God one day is a “thousand” years and a “thousand” years is one day. “Thousand” is symbolic for a long time.

Matt. 16:27; 25:31-46 - the fact that there is immediate punishment rejects the premillenialism idea of a 1,000 year span between the second coming of Christ and the final judgment.

Matt. 24:24-31; Mark. 13:24-27; 2 Thess. 2:1-12 - these verses reject the premillenialism and mid-tribulation view because the rapture and the tribulation occur together.

Matt. 13:24-30; 36-43 - the wheat and weeds parable rejects the postmillenialism idea that the world will be Christianized before the end of time.

Rev. 20:4 - this verse shows the millennium is the period of Christ’s current reign with His saints in heaven and His rule through the Church. This view, which Protestants call “amillenialism,” is consistent with the Catholic view. The rapture and the second coming will occur after Christ’s reign and the end of the Church Militant on earth. There is thus no “rapture” that precedes the second coming of Jesus.

Rev. 20:3; Matt. 12:29-30 - satan is currently bound during this millennium insofar as he cannot prevent the spreading of the Gospel.

Luke 10:17-18 - after the elders preached the Gospel, Jesus said He saw satan fall like lightning. Thus, satan is currently bound and cannot prevent us from evangelizing the world.

2 Peter 3:10-15 - in the meantime, we wait for the Lord’s coming with zeal, avoiding sin, and being at peace, in the hope of our salvation.

Peace in Christ…Salmon

 

[cassman]

MariaG:

Cornerstone,
What happened to Enoc and Elijah? The same thing that happened to Mary.:yup: :yup: :yup: . They were assumed into heaven, not raptured.
God Bless

What about limbo?

How could Enoc and Elijah be assumed into heaven before Jesus had open the gates to heaven?

 

[Salmon]

1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead in Christ shall rise first? When will the dead in Christ be resurrected?
John 6:39
And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Is this the last…. LAST DAY or is the the LAST DAY before the last 1000 years?

Peace in Christ………….Salmon

 

[JesustheSavior]

1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead in Christ shall rise first? When will the dead in Christ be resurrected?
John 6:39
And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Is this the last…. LAST DAY or is the the LAST DAY before the last 1000 years?

Peace in Christ………….Salmon

Right there in verse 17 is talking to you about the rapture itself.
Those last days that those other verses are talking about, are the ones after Jesus comes for the second time on earth,the ones that will survive the great tribulation will be judge.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Salmon:

Is this the last…. LAST DAY or is the the LAST DAY before the last 1000 years?

Some would say that since the first resurrection of which Rev 20:5-6 speaks has already occurred, citing Matthew 27:52-53: “the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his [Jesus’] resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many,” then we are in the 1000 year reign right now and all that is left is: the conversion of Israel, the coming of the antichrist, the Tribulation in which the Church will suffer much, Christ’s glorious Second Coming, the second resurrection and the Last Judgment.

 

[Socrates]

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Right there in verse 17 is talking to you about the rapture itself.
Those last days that those other verses are talking about, are the ones after Jesus comes for the second time on earth,the ones that will survive the great tribulation will be judge.

But verse 16 is clearly talking about the second coming. Christ is coming to earth unmistakably, with a shout, the voice of an archangel, the trump of God. The dead in Christ will be resurrected. There’s no secret snatching away leaving behind unmanned cars as the bumper stickers say. Christ will have come and everybody is going to know it.

If verse 17 is talking about a rapture then the rapture takes place AFTER the second coming. That doesn’t fit with the rapture doctrine as I understand it. According to LaHaye, the rapture happens a dozen or so books BEFORE the second coming.

 

[Todd_Easton]

cornerstone:

when?

The Assumption of Mary is an oral Apostolic Tradition which finds support in Sacred Scripture, if you accept that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant of the New Testament, where it says, “Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple.” (Rev 11:19)

Just as in the Old Testament, “the ark of the covenant … contained a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant” (Heb 9:4), so too the Blessed Virgin Mary, the ark of the new covenant, carried in her womb Jesus, who is “the living bread which came down from heaven” (John 6:51), the “high priest of our confession” (Heb 3:1), and “the Word of God” (Rev 19:13).

 

[JesustheSavior]

Todd Easton:

The Assumption of Mary is an oral Apostolic Tradition which finds support in Sacred Scripture, if you accept that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant of the New Testament, where it says, “Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple.” (Rev 11:19)

Just as in the Old Testament, “the ark of the covenant … contained a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant” (Heb 9:4), so too the Blessed Virgin Mary, the ark of the new covenant, carried in her womb Jesus, who is “the living bread which came down from heaven” (John 6:51), the “high priest of our confession” (Heb 3:1), and “the Word of God” (Rev 19:13).

The new covenant was not Mary,was Jesus being the ultimate sacrificial lamb,to die in the cross for the sins of all humanity.
Do you by any chance know what the covenent of the Old Testament was?for what you just said here you really don’t,i am not trying to offend you with this,so please accept my apologies if i do.
Once more this is not about Mary,is about how do catholics hear the gospel,i am really sadden that it has evolve into this,after all the gospels is about the life,and death of our Lord Jesus,it was giving to us by those who were the witnesses of those days,saying that Mary is the new covenent is taking away the pact that God made with Abraham.

 

[Salmon]

JesustheSavior:

The new covenant was not Mary

Todd never said that Mary was the new covenant. He gave the typological evidence for he being titled “The Ark of the New Covenant”. The New Covenant and the Ark are not the same thing.

JesustheSavior:

Do you by any chance know what the covenent of the Old Testament was?

There were several covenants, actually.

God made covenantal agreements with:

1. Adam and Eve
2. Noah
3. Abraham
4. Moses
5. David

JesustheSavior:

Once more this is not about Mary,is about how do catholics hear the gospel

It appears that you are referencing a different thread “How Do Catholics Hear the Gospel?”

This thread is titled “Does the Catholic Church Believe in the Rapture?”

JesustheSavior:

i am really sadden that it has evolve into this,after all the gospels is about the life,and death of our Lord Jesus,it was giving to us by those who were the witnesses of those days,saying that Mary is the new covenent is taking away the pact that God made with Abraham.

We’ve all posted responses in the wrong threads before.

Peace in Christ…Salmon

 

[Truth]

Hold on a minute! The Church does teach as the scripture’s do that those who remain on earth at Christ’s Second Coming, will be caught-up in the clouds with Him. The problem with the current Rapture theory is that it teaches a secret Second Coming and then a Third Coming at the end of time. This is simply not biblical. In addtion, this theory is tied in with the unbiblical theology of Dispensationalism. Dispensationalism wasn’t “invented” until the 1830’s, so it was not taught or believed by the historical Christian Church.

 

[Truth]

JesustheSavior:

Todd Easton:

The Assumption of Mary is an oral Apostolic Tradition which finds support in Sacred Scripture, if you accept that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant of the New Testament, where it says, “Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple.” (Rev 11:19)

Just as in the Old Testament, “the ark of the covenant … contained a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant” (Heb 9:4), so too the Blessed Virgin Mary, the ark of the new covenant, carried in her womb Jesus, who is “the living bread which came down from heaven” (John 6:51), the “high priest of our confession” (Heb 3:1), and “the Word of God” (Rev 19:13).

The new covenant was not Mary,was Jesus being the ultimate sacrificial lamb,to die in the cross for the sins of all humanity.
Do you by any chance know what the covenent of the Old Testament was?for what you just said here you really don’t,i am not trying to offend you with this,so please accept my apologies if i do.
Once more this is not about Mary,is about how do catholics hear the gospel,i am really sadden that it has evolve into this,after all the gospels is about the life,and death of our Lord Jesus,it was giving to us by those who were the witnesses of those days,saying that Mary is the new covenent is taking away the pact that God made with Abraham.
He was not saying the Mary was the New Covenant!:banghead: Please carefully read what he wrote. He said that Mary is the **ARK **of the New Covenant. This means that she carried within her the New Covenant which was Jesus Christ, the Messiah. What did the Ark of the Old Covenant have in it? The rod, the 10 Commandments, and the Manna…all types of Jesus. This is clearly biblical. It seems that you had a knee-jerk reaction because you saw the word, Mary:bigyikes: I’m tired of her name freeking Protestants out. She’s the mother of God…get over it!

 

[Socrates]

Mary got brought into it because of the idea of being “assumed into heaven” which is basically what the rapture is supposed to be – Christians being assumed into heaven body and soul. I think that’s how the threads got confused (if they did get confused).

That’s always struck me as odd about the debates that go on about this rapture topic. People believe that God will assume them into heaven but it’s unthinkable to even consider the possibility that Mary might have been. (Of course, it all comes back to the false doctrine of sola scriptura, as most of these debates do.)

The other thing that bugs me is that Christians would get the idea that being a Christian is a free ticket to escape tribulation and suffering. Throughout Christian history it’s been those with the most faith who have suffered the most. Why the 180 for the final seven years? It’s just inconsistent.

(BTW, that anyone got “Mary IS the new covenant” out of anything that was posted makes me wonder how thoroughly they are reading. Seems like somebody might be so eager to leap upon Catholic “errors” that they see things that aren’t really there.)

 

[Buckeyejoe]

The rapture is pure comedy…

Jesus returns and reigns as King for 1,000 years, well, I can see it now, Jesus walking up to everyone and asking them to do the sinners prayer, you know if evangelization was really that easy then why didn’t Jesus tell the Apostles that? Make sure everyone does the sinners prayer and they are saved for eternity.

The Rapture is only believed by a very small amount of Protestants, mainly some Fundamentalists or Evangelicals. Main line Protestantism also condemns it as pure heresy.

Also there are no, zero, Scriptural passages that reference a Rapture.

The End…

 

[Salmon]

Socrates:

That’s always struck me as odd about the debates that go on about this rapture topic. People believe that God will assume them into heaven but it’s unthinkable to even consider the possibility that Mary might have been. (Of course, it all comes back to the false doctrine of sola scriptura, as most of these debates do.)

That’s a great point. Another ironic aspect is that in the OT, God frequently intervened and “took out” some of the players. All of Noah’s neighbors got taken out, as the planet got a thorough housecleaning and evil was eliminated.

The “bad guys” were eliminated and the good guys got left here.

Same with Sodom and Gomorrha. Once Lot pulled out, the "bad guys"get caught with their pants down and are treated to a sulfur barbecue.

Where does anybody get the idea that in case of Rapture, that this time God will take all the believers out and hand the planet over to the “bad guys”. Where do the saints come from that are mentioned in the tribulation in Revelation if only the unbelievers are left behind?

Socrates:

The other thing that bugs me is that Christians would get the idea that being a Christian is a free ticket to escape tribulation and suffering. Throughout Christian history it’s been those with the most faith who have suffered the most. Why the 180 for the final seven years? It’s just inconsistent.

Great point. Also, since the Rapture “dogma” has absolutely NOTHING to do with salvation (whether one believes or not, as we are saved by God’s grace through our faith), one wonders why faith in this silliness is harped upon so incessantly.

Evangies dismiss Marian devotion as irrelevant to salvation, but insist upon pounding the Rapture day and night. Consistent?

(BTW, that anyone got “Mary IS the new covenant” out of anything that was posted makes me wonder how thoroughly they are reading. Seems like somebody might be so eager to leap upon Catholic “errors” that they see things that aren’t really there.)

Great post.

Peace in Christ…Salmon

 

[quasimodo]

Sulfur Bar-B-Q, Salmon? Is that scriptural?

 

[Salmon]

Buckeyejoe:

Also there are no, zero, Scriptural passages that reference a Rapture.

Interestingly, “Rapture” is derived from St. Jerome’s Latin (Vulgate) translation of 1 Thess 4:17. The Latin word is “Rapiemur”.

Funny, but I thought the criticism was that no one could make sense out of a “dead language”.

Peace in Christ…Salmon

 

[Salmon]

Truth:

Hold on a minute! The Church does teach as the scripture’s do that those who remain on earth at Christ’s Second Coming, will be caught-up in the clouds with Him.

And you are correct here and in your succeeding statements. The truth is, Catholics can be described as amillenial post-tribulationists.

No problem there at all. No secret rapture either, as you explained very well.

Peace in Christ…Salmon

 

[Buckeyejoe]

1 Thess 4:17 uses the word rapture, but not in the context of the movie, or the off the wall teachings of these wacko fundamentalists, The rapture in St Jerome’s Vulgate is the End of the World, the 2nd coming of Jesus. Not a low level hoover vacuum suck up the people and run fly by, and then later (about 7 years) Jesus comes back for His 2nd coming, but He decides to hang around for 1,000 years etc. etc.

As serious students of Catholicism, and there are alot who visit this website, we should Not allow the Beautiful Word of God to be horribly mutilated by ignorant non Catholics.

Agreed?

 

[quasimodo]

Great point. Also, since the Rapture “dogma” has absolutely NOTHING to do with salvation (whether one believes or not, as we are saved by God’s grace through our faith), one wonders why faith in this silliness is harped upon so incessantly.

IMHO, it is because it fits into the Fundamentalist theology of FEAR. OSAS(IES)* is purely a fear derived theology. Rapture is a real fear generator, especially for the kids they scare with it. "Junior, if you ever come home and Mommy is not here, she got raptured and you will be left to face the tribulation alone. Have a nice day. "

*Once Saved Always Saved (if ever saved)

 

[Salmon]

Buckeyejoe:

Agreed?

As a fellow Buckeye, I could not agree more.

Peace in Christ…Salmon