Does the Catholic Church have a position on gun control?

[Gricken]

Hadn’t you stopped the third the reich. The third reich would have stopped you. Also do not forget that your roots are European and your grandparents are European. And the third reich would surely have gotten to America after it had fully gotten France and England in it’s hands. You really think America went in war in order to save Europea? If they would have done so they would have joined far sooner…

Also I have a family member that died while fighting the third reich he was a rebel. It’s not like America alone did free us there where a lot of European fighters involved also!

But guns kill people it’s a tool made for killing. As Chekhov’s gun theory is… When there’s a gun involved it will be shot. Your childeren get killed by guns. And what do you do as a reaction? You scream for more guns.

I don’t even understand why a catholic would be against abortion but not against guns. It’s a tool to send someone to die.

Hitler wouldn’t have gotten America. The Eastern Front cost him the war.

 

[Meemai]

Am I to understand that you don’t drive a car? Also offense is taken when you use the ad hominem logical fallacy of crazy. When you stoop to insults, you have already lost the argument.

I drive a car but I cannot take a car into a school and kill the whole school with my car. Also your not allowed to drive a car when using alcohol. But I do believe people can just carry a gun even if they are pissed drunk. And I wonder what **** drunk people do with a gun when there’s a fight comming up?

And surely go buy more guns. Go tell me that I am stupid for being against guns. But when guns take the lifes of your childeren, grandchilderen or anyone else close to you don’t come to me. Though in America I can remember after a school got killed the people already started asking for more guns for protection. Surely when we all have guns no one will be killed.

 

[Meemai]

Hitler wouldn’t have gotten America. The Eastern Front cost him the war.

If America did not come. Hitler would have won. The eastern front was strong but not that strong. Hitler had to fight a war at two sides. If he only had to fight at one side he would have won. Or made a pact with the east and just started destroying the west.

Also I don’t think Jesus would have a gun and he would probably denounce guns.

 

[Fairwinds]

Hitler wouldn’t have gotten America. The Eastern Front cost him the war.

at its peak strength, the german navy couldn’t guard a cross-channel invasion of england. the concept of the same navy trying to support an invasion USA force across the north atlantic is beyond laughable.

 

[Gricken]

If America did not come. Hitler would have won. The eastern front was strong but not that strong. Hitler had to fight a war at two sides. If he only had to fight at one side he would have won. Or made a pact with the east and just started destroying the west.

It isn’t about strength. It’s about industrial power and tactical blunders. There really isn’t a “if Hitler just hadn’t done x” scenario. His hold over France was tenuous at best, due to his lightning war strategy leaving most of France’s military power intact enough to stage a very effective resistance. Same in Greece and Poland. He was unable to win in North Africa.The eastern front cost him all of his best soldiers, and most of his resources. Not to mention he had to keep intervening every time Italy tried to get involved. No doubt he made a huge blunder in declaring war on America (it meant more than half the worlds economic might was now against him) But it wasn’t needed. He wouldn’t have won his war with Russia.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

And not a single one of the documents produced by the full body of bishops, in 2000 or since, has ever endorsed the Obama/Prodigal program or anything like it.

Nor did Father Lombardi, the Vatican press spokesman (who admitted he wasn’t speaking for the Pope).

Nor did Cdl Dolan have specific proposals for gun control, and left it to political leaders to work out whatever they felt was appropriate. Congress tabled the Obama proposal, and Cdl Dolan left it there.

And you have not yet shown us why your guns, which you have admitted you own, are morally okay but someone else’s are not.

And when one wants to impose gun controls by government, it is exactly a political question.

First, your repeated connection to me and Obama is no more than an apparent ad hominem. I have corrected you so many times, that anyone could understand that the calls are non partisan. Your repeated connections however appear to be very partisan. I find it without merit and will no longer address that repeated falsehood anymore. In my opinion, that type tactic is only used when one does not have a valid argument.

The something left to legislators was a call for action. The call was not for something failed, the call was for something accomplished. Anyone could see that, that didn’t seek a biased interpretation as justification to minimize the calls from the men of the Church.

We both work on the behalf of others. I work so that all may enjoy a dignity of life, as the bishops have called for, and you work so that all have a right to own as many guns as they want. The problem is, your work provides a right to all including those who would use the guns against others. That provides the easy access to guns, which cheapens life and contributes to the culture of death, as Cardinal Dolan stated.

Since it seems you’re not interested in a real discussion, I won’t be responding to your posts. With that stated, I invite everyone to read the documents posted on the USCCB and make their own determination of whether or not the Church, through the authoritative men of the Church, has a position on gun control. I feel most certainly they do. I have provided quotes from the men of the Church, and those with an opposing view have not. They can’t, because there are no opposing views from any men of the Church.

 

[Meemai]

at its peak strength, the german navy couldn’t guard a cross-channel invasion of england. the concept of the same navy trying to support an invasion USA force across the north atlantic is beyond laughable.

Yes but if the usa would not come. Hitler would have defeated the eastern front. Or made peace.

But back to guns. What do you think? Would Jesus wear a gun? I think Jesus would be against guns.

Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword

I wonder if they ever pause to ask themselves what would Jesus do in reaction to the sporadic, yet persistent incidents of violence in the country. In addition to advocating for more peace, compassion and assistance for those who are disadvantaged, would Jesus advocate for better gun control and a reduction of gun ownership as ways to mitigate violence? Or would he advocate rushing out to purchase more guns, including automatic assault weapons? I wonder if Jesus would encourage all citizens to carry concealed weapons, or if he would propose that school teachers be permitted to possess guns in the classrooms?

(huffingtonpost.com/charles-negy-phd/would-jesus-buy-an-automatic-assault-weapon_b_2471781.html)

 

[Gricken]

at its peak strength, the german navy couldn’t guard a cross-channel invasion of england. the concept of the same navy trying to support an invasion USA force across the north atlantic is beyond laughable.

Agreed. But after World War II, the cold war started. So in school we could either tell what really happened in the war, or we could tell the version where America won the war for everyone. It’s pretty easy to see what got taught in history class.

 

[Meemai]

It isn’t about strength. It’s about industrial power and tactical blunders. There really isn’t a “if Hitler just hadn’t done x” scenario. His hold over France was tenuous at best, due to his lightning war strategy leaving most of France’s military power intact enough to stage a very effective resistance. Same in Greece and Poland. He was unable to win in North Africa.The eastern front cost him all of his best soldiers, and most of his resources. Not to mention he had to keep intervening every time Italy tried to get involved. No doubt he made a huge blunder in declaring war on America (it meant more than half the worlds economic might was now against him) But it wasn’t needed. He wouldn’t have won his war with Russia.

So Americans would not have freed us but the eastern front would have as well. So…

Though I am pretty sure beign a catholic and guns do not go hand in hand.

 

[SamH]

I drive a car but I cannot take a car into a school and kill the whole school with my car. Also your not allowed to drive a car when using alcohol. But I do believe people can just carry a gun even if they are pissed drunk. And I wonder what **** drunk people do with a gun when there’s a fight comming up?

And surely go buy more guns. Go tell me that I am stupid for being against guns. But when guns take the lifes of your childeren, grandchilderen or anyone else close to you don’t come to me. Though in America I can remember after a school got killed the people already started asking for more guns for protection. Surely when we all have guns no one will be killed.

I’m pretty sure you will be last last person anyone will come too.

By the way - you are about 3 times more likely to be killed by car than killed by someone with a gun. Many times more school children are killed by cars than by guns.

 

[Gricken]

So Americans would not have freed us but the eastern front would have as well. So…

Though I am pretty sure beign a catholic and guns do not go hand in hand.

Fair enough. That WAS off topic. We can probably start a new thread about that. back to guns

While you may think that it’s hard for one to be catholic and own guns. Catholics aren’t required to be pacifists. Not wanting to own weapons is a noble idea. And one we can applaud. But it is not against church teaching to own a weapon for self defense

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Am I to understand that you don’t drive a car? Also offense is taken when you use the ad hominem logical fallacy of crazy. When you stoop to insults, you have already lost the argument.

Have you stopped driving cars because of their danger?

Cars are designed for transportation. Guns are designed for lethal purposes. They are not even close to the same thing.

 

[Meemai]

I’m pretty sure you will be last last person anyone will come too.

By the way - you are about 3 times more likely to be killed by car than killed by someone with a gun. Many times more school children are killed by cars than by guns.

Fair enough. That WAS off topic. We can probably start a new thread about that. back to guns

While you may think that it’s hard for one to be catholic and own guns. Catholics aren’t required to be pacifists. Not wanting to own weapons is a noble idea. And one we can applaud. But it is not against church teaching to own a weapon for self defense

Awh your way to kind to me. I like you to.

And yes I can imagine Jesus would also run around with a semi automatic weapon. Np! He would just have shot Pontius Pilatus, and said TAKE THAT YOU BASTARD!

Yes, guns are the thing that every good catholic should have!

Have you stopped driving cars because of their danger?

Cars are designed for transportation. Guns are designed for lethal purposes. They are not even close to the same thing.

I havn’t made a single accident with my car, and I can’t fold it in 2 to take it into building go into a school and drive people death in the hallway of the school, fold the car in two again take it outside and drive away.

 

[Fairwinds]

…
Though I am pretty sure beign a catholic and guns do not go hand in hand.

and you’d be wrong. are you really not asserting that the pro-second amendment posters on this thread aren’t Catholics?

 

[SamH]

Yes but if the usa would not come. Hitler would have defeated the eastern front. Or made peace.

But back to guns. What do you think? Would Jesus wear a gun? I think Jesus would be against guns.

Then said he unto them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 22:36

 

[Fairwinds]

…

Yes, guns are the thing that every good catholic should have!..

right, we do.

 

[SamH]

Yes, guns are the thing that every good catholic should have!

Finally we agree.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Then said he unto them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 22:36

That has been misquoted, and corrected through Catholic commentaries, and the early Church fathers, so many times it’s amazing anyone still uses it as support for no gun controls.

 

[SamH]

I havn’t made a single accident with my car, and I can’t fold it in 2 to take it into building go into a school and drive people death in the hallway of the school, fold the car in two again take it outside and drive away.

Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more people than my guns.

 

[Meemai]

Then said he unto them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 22:36

''they that take the sword (labóntes máxairan) shall perish with the sword”.

That has been misquoted, and corrected through Catholic commentaries, and the early Church fathers, so many times it’s amazing anyone still uses it as support for no gun controls.

I hope the pope would say something about this and just denounce guns then we would not be discussing this. I wonder if I can write a letter to the pope probably not.