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Fairwinds
Guest
this is another blatant lie and misrepresentation.T…as support for no gun controls.
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SamH
Guest
Source?
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Meemai
Guest
Matthew 26:52
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SamH
Guest
A single man with sword facing an armed mob and soldiers - it might be time to think about putting the sword away.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I live in a state that’s pretty permissive when it comes to guns, but if you drive drunk with a gun in a car you will absolutely get arrested and charged both for driving drunk and for having a gun in the car while drunk, no matter what kind of gun it is, and no matter whether it’s in reach or not. If you are drunk, on foot, and carrying a gun, they’ll take the gun away from you. You can get it back, but not that day. You will, however, be lucky if you don’t get charged with “brandishing” because if you’re drunk, you’ll likely move in a way that seems threatening.
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Meemai
Guest
Pray to the holy ghost, that you may understand what Jesus meant better. Pray for that my friend. Because Jesus was not hinting at the numbers here he meant way more.
Also does this look holy to you?
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SamH
Guest
Beautiful
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SamH
Guest
Please explain why Jesus told the people to buy a sword if they had none? Why did the apostles have swords if Jesus had such an issue (as you claim) with them?
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Brendan_64
Guest
It’s not twisted logic, unless you want to claim that CCC 2316 is also twisted logic.That, my friend, is twisted logic.
I suppose Romans Chapter 13 means to submit to jack-booted thugs too
The fact is that the Church DOES teach that public authorities have not just a right, but a duty to regulate the sales of arms.
Like it or not, that is what our Church teaches, and that teaching binds us all. No man-made laws or constitutions take precedence over the laws of our Church.
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Meemai
Guest
They had two swords among 12 man. And Jesus said that would be enough.
36 [Jesus] said to [the disciples], “But now the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag; and the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one.”
However, what happens to the apparent meaning of the verse when it is not read in isolation, but in context? Did Jesus really wield a sword and want all of the disciples to buy one each?
The contextual meaning of the swords
In contrast to the literal interpretation of using swords physically, the following interpretation works smoothly in context so that all the pieces of the puzzle fit together.
First, Jesus reminds the disciples of his mission for them before he arrived in Jerusalem (Luke 9:3; 10:1-17). Did they need a purse, a bag, or extra sandals? No, because people were friendlier, and their opposition to him was spread out over three years. Now, however, he is in Jerusalem, and he has undergone the compacted antagonism of religious leaders seeking to trap him with self-incriminating words. When the authorities are not present, they send their spies. The atmosphere is therefore tense, and the two swords—no more than that—represent the tension. Jesus’ mission has shifted to a clear danger, and the disciples must beware. However, he certainly did not intend for his disciples to use the swords, as we just saw in the literal interpretation, above, for he is about to tell Peter to put away his sword.
Second, “For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered among the lawless’” (Luke 22:37). By far the clearest purpose of the two swords is Jesus’ reference to Isaiah’s prophecy (53:12). He was destined to be arrested like a criminal, put on trial like a criminal, and even crucified like a criminal (but his arrest, trial, and execution were based on false evidence. He did nothing but good.) Yet, he was hung on the cross between two thieves, which is also a fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy (Luke 23:32; 39-43). What are criminals known for carrying with them? Weapons, and to be numbered among criminals, Jesus must also have weapons. That is why he said that only two swords would be enough—to fulfill this prophecy. Also, Matthew mentions fulfilling prophecy (26:54). If Peter had kept on physically using the sword to prevent Christ’s arrest, prophecy would not have been accomplished smoothly and without hindrance. Jesus says that he could call on twelve legions of angels to protect him, meaning he is destined by God to die; he was not permitted to stop even the mighty Roman Empire from fulfilling its role (Matt. 26:53). That is why Jesus told Peter to put his sword back in its place (Matt. 26:52). And in Luke he says to Peter after the disciple cut off an ear, “No more of this!” (22:51).
The third and final nonliteral interpretation says that Jesus frequently used physical objects (seeds, lamps, vineyards, coins, lost sheep and so on) to teach nonphysical, universal truths, and the same is possibly true of the two swords. This interpretation of clarification is supported by Matt. 10:34: “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword.” As seen in this article on Matt. 10:34, in context he does not mean a physical sword that cuts up and bloodies the family, but a spiritual and moral one that may divide it up nonphysically. And it is precisely Luke who clarifies Jesus’ meaning of “sword” as nonliteral, in the two parallel passages of Matt. 10:34 and Luke 12:51. If Luke does this in 12:51, then why would he not shift slightly the meaning of “sword” in 22:36-38?
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SamH
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Fairwinds
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no one is says they don’t. strawman argumentation is a favorite tactic of gun grabbers.
the government already regulates guns. you don’t like the degree of regulation, I get that. but the USCCB hasn’t promulgated gun control laws.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Where did you get that idea from? I haven’t said any such thing. I think it is you who is jumping conclusions.I just think it is rather strange that people seem so emotionally attached to a piece of metal machinery.
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Meemai
Guest
Well I don’t see Jesus running around with a gun. Jesus also did not have a sword. But you can think what you like in the end you will be judged by God.
I myself can’t care about it anymore I have warned you.
It’s an American thing seeing you are from the UK and I am from the Netherlands. We will never understand. When a school gets killed by a gunslinger they call for more guns.
I don’t think that is what Jesus envisioned. Let American gunslingers sin, they do not listen to us let them sin. And let’s pray for them that God might set them on the right path for they are blind to our reasoning but the holy spirit might show them better.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
But two swords is enough, when they faced the Roman army, and even the ‘soldiers’ of the Israelite people?
There are multiple early Church fathers that will dispute the way you are presenting interpretations, on the various passages.
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Meemai
Guest
Thanks.
That’s why I told him to pray to the holy spirit so the holy spirit may explain it to him. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the Gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints. (Ephesians 6:13-18)
We have a sword already!
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Fairwinds
Guest
He never laughed either. its not recorded in scripture or tradition.
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Meemai
Guest
Jesus stood for peace. Do you think guns stand for peace. Will you when you have a gun and your kid gets shot, turn the other cheek? I know it’s really hard and if I had a gun I would shoot down that bastard right now! But it would be a sin! Jesus would be against it.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Quite possibly, but that does not mean that the USA won the war for all the other parties. The American arrival boosted the strength of the Allied forces and gave the Allies the edge. The Russians, and the British won the war as much as the USA did.
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SamH
Guest
Because there were not any?
He didn’t ride around in a helecoptor either.
You might want to read your post - reason 2 actually seems to contradict your claim.It’s an American thing seeing you are from the UK and I am from the Netherlands. We will never understand. When a school gets killed by a gunslinger they call for more guns.
I don’t think that is what Jesus envisioned. Let American gunslingers sin, they do not listen to us let them sin. And let’s pray for them that God might set them on the right path for they are blind to our reasoning but the holy spirit might show them better.
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