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SamH
Guest
And what did the US get for its efforts besides footing the bill for rebuilding most of Europe?
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SamH
Guest
What about him using whips to drive people out of his father’s house?
By the way - please quit cursing on this site.
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Fairwinds
Guest
you can’t keep track of your own argument.
this is a completely meaningless assertion, because the government already regulates guns – what’s the opposing side? no one claims that they don’t shouldn’t or can’t regulate them. the only dispute is the extent of regulation, and you’re clearly unhappy with that.
you’re on a debate thread getting schooled by people who understand the nuances of American constitutional law, and you come up with this lame ad hom?
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SamH
Guest
Actually I thought it was rather strange that people seem so emotionally enraged by a piece of metal machinery.
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Fairwinds
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stop swearing.
the CCC permits lawful self defense and defense of others, by deadly force if necessary. the concept of “just war” is also part of the CCC. the death penalty is allowed under the CCC.
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Brendan_64
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And what argument is that? Point me to one statement I have made that says more gun control is required
Well pardon me for having the audacity to post on a thread packed with such legal experts. and there was me thinking that this thread was about what the Church teaches, rather than what is written in the Constitution of the United States.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
It’s even more strange to see people place them above all else.
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Meemai
Guest
So much for turn the other cheek and pray for your ennemies. I stick with Jesus and I hope he will beat you all with a whip for thinking like this.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Christ set an authoritative Church, with a hierarchy. The legalistic approach to the guidance from the authoritative men of the Church was not, and is not, taught. The men of the Church have knowledge of the scriptures, the Catechism, and all other documents from themselves and other authoritative men of the Church. Dismissing them suggests one knows better than they, who have legitimate authority.
I’ve seen the argument go from ‘1,’ to ‘2,’ to ‘3,’ to ‘a few,’ to ‘a majority, but not enough.’ The discussion included ‘prudential opinion,’ to ‘vague,’ to ‘already established,’ to ‘calls met.’
The scriptures being thrown around now have all been explained with writings from the early Church fathers, and accepted Catholic theologians who wrote biblical commentaries, often quoting the early Church fathers.
Now the discussion shows personal attacks through ad hominems, and spins of what an opposing view actually says. If that fails, the topic changes with great tones of condescension, and belittlement towards others.
Some people will not accept the guidance simply because of personal views, and there is no limit to how they will challenge those who oppose them.
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Brendan_64
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Are you kidding? Control over West Berlin, West Germany, military bases all over Western Europe and setting itself up as the dominant super-power facing the USSR. Without that, the USA would not have gone on to be the dominant world power it is today.
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Meemai
Guest
Sadness they are most of the time against gays and sinners, but only if it not intereferes with they’re views. A priest in Syria was murdered he did not hold a gun he turned the other cheek which I respect. And is courageous.
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Prodigal_Son1
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The Church teaches defense, but it does not teach that each person is entitled to whatever type weapon they want. They quote the Catechism for defense, and parse/dissect the Catechism when it speaks of a right and duty of the state to regulate.
With all their wrangling, they don’t acknowledge that private sales allow for people to exchange guns for cash, without even sharing names, much less background checks, with each other. There are gaps in our present ‘regulations,’ and they seem content that it remain that way.
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Meemai
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Yup it’s a big industry and a lot of guns also are being exploited and sent to countries where you can not have them. And there they are used to wreak havoc and stuff like that. By supporting such a industry your a indirect murderer.The Church teaches defense, but it does not teach that each person is entitled to whatever type weapon they want. They quote the Catechism for defense, and parse/dissect the Catechism when it speaks of a right and duty of the state to regulate.
With all their wrangling, they don’t acknowledge that private sales allow for people to exchange guns for cash, without even sharing names, much less background checks, with each other. There are gaps in our present ‘regulations,’ and they seem content that it remain that way.
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Fairwinds
Guest
Jesus isn’t going to whip me. you really should refrain from this kind of speech here.
for your information, CCC means “Catechism of the Catholic Church”. the CCC teaches that defense of others and defense of self is permitted, with deadly force if necessary. “just war” is an ancient concept also in the CCC.
you can disagree with me, but you can’t disagree with the magisterial authority of the church
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Prodigal_Son1
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And the CCC says the states have a right and duty to regulate. It doesn’t place limitations on those rights and duties, just as it doesn’t say each person should be allowed to own whatever gun they want, and leave gaps in current regulations, that allow transfers of guns without background checks.
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Fairwinds
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where does it say that states have a right and duty to regulate guns? not that don’t believe you, I don’t have the reference handy.
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Meemai
Guest
Yes but it does not say you can support a industry that costs the life of many? John Paul II was shot with a gun.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Annie39
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Matt: 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Jerome: He had before said, “What I say to you in darkness, that speak ye in the light;” He now tells them what will follow upon that preaching, saying, “Think not that I am come to send peace upon earth; I am not come to send peace, but a sword.”
Gloss. interlin.: Or connect it with what has gone before, As the fear of death ought not to draw you away, so neither ought carnal affection.
Chrys., Hom. xxxv: How then did He enjoin them, that when they should enter any house they should say, “Peace be to this house,” as also the Angels sung, “Glory to God in the highest, on earth peace to men.” [Luk_2:14] That is the most perfect peace when that which is diseased is lopped off, when that which introduces strife is taken away, for so only is it possible that heaven should be joined to earth. For so does the physician save the rest of the body, namely by cutting off that which cannot be healed. So it came to pass at the tower of Babel; a happy discord broke up their bad union. So also Paul divided those who were conspired together against him. For concord is not in all cases good; for there is honour among thieves. And this combat is not of His setting before them, but of the plots of the world.
Jerome: For in the matter of belief in Christ, the whole world was divided against itself; each house had its believers and its unbelievers; and therefore was this holy war sent, that an unholy peace might be broken through.
Chrys.: This He said as it were comforting His disciples, as much as to say, Be not troubled as though these things fell upon you unexpectedly; for this cause I came that I might send war upon the earth - nay He says not ‘war,’ but what is yet harder, “a sword.” For He sought by sharpness of speech so to rouse their attention, that they should not fall off in time of trial and difficulty; or say that He had told them smooth things, and had hid the difficulties. For it is better to meet with softness in deeds than in words; and therefore He stayed not in words, but shewing them the nature of their warfare, He taught them that it was more perilous than a civil war; saying, “I am come to set a man against his father, and daughter against her mother, and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.” So this warfare will be between not acquaintances merely, but the nearest and dearest kindred; and this shews Christ’s very great power; that His disciples after having heard this, yet undertook the mission, and brought over others.
Yet was it not Christ who made this division, but the evil nature of the parties; when He says that it is He that does it, He speaks according to the manner of Scripture. As it is written, “God hath given them eyes that they should not see.” [Isa_6:10] Here is also a great proof that the Old Testament is like the New. For among the Jews a man was to put his neighbour to death if he found him making a calf, or sacrificing to Baalphegor; so here to shew that it was the same God who ordained both that and these precepts, He reminds them of the prophecy, “A man’s foes are they of his household.” For this same thing happened among the Jews; there were Prophets, and false Prophets; there the multitude was divided, and houses were set against themselves; there some believed one part, and some another.
Jerome: These are almost the words of the Prophet Micah. [Mic_7:6] We should always take note when a passage is cited out of the Old Testament, whether the sense only, or the very words are given.
Hilary: Mystically, a sword is the sharpest of all weapons, and thence it is the emblem of the right of authority, the impartiality of justice, the correction of offenders. The word of God, we may remember, is likened to a sword; [margin note: Eph_6:17, Heb_4:12] so here the sword that is sent upon the earth is His preaching poured into the heart of man. The five inhabiting one house, whom He divides three against two, and two against three, we may explain thus; The three are the three parts of man, the body, the soul, and the will; for as the soul is bestowed in the body, so the will has power of using both in any way it chooses; and thence when a law is given it is given to the will. But this is only found in those who were first formed by God. By the sin and unbelief of the first parent, all the generations of men since have had sin for the father of their body, and unbelief for the mother of their soul. And as each man has his will within him, there are thus five in one house.
When then we are renewed in the laver of baptism, by virtue of the word we are set apart from our original guilt, and severed, as it were, by the sword of God, from the lusts of this our father and mother, and thus there is great discord made in one house; the new man finding his foes within, he seeks with joy to live in newness of spirit; they which are derived from the old stock, lust to remain in their old pleasures.
continued:
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