Does the Catholic Church have a position on gun control?

[Prodigal_Son1]

Assault weapons are not banned in the U.S., but their possession is very strictly limited. Possibly Cdl Dolan knows the difference between an assault weapon and a semi automatic rifle that resembles one superficially. But perhaps he doesn’t. He apparently didn’t realize the Cuomo bill banned police pistols even in the hands of the police.

Undoubtedly, because he is not an expert, and admits that he is not an expert in any manner, he left it up to the legislators, who turned the Obama bill down.

Possibly one has to use semantics to justify their position.

Below was written, the bottom one by Cardinal Dolan, in direct response to the gunman who killed the innocent children in school, with an AR15.

USCCB Committees Call For Action In Response To Newtown Tragedy

In their memory and for the sake of our nation, we reiterate our call made in 2000, in our statement, Responsibility, Rehabilitation and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice, for all Americans, especially legislators, to:

1.Support measures that control the sale and use of firearms

2.Support measures that make guns safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner)

3.Call for sensible regulations of handguns

4.Support legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons including assault weapons

5.Make a serious commitment to confront the pervasive role of addiction and mental illness in crime.

As we long for the arrival of the Prince of Peace in this Advent and Christmas season, we call on all people of goodwill to help bring about a culture of life and peace.

Below is from the blog of the president of the USCCB, Cardinal Dolan.

Advocating for Gun Control

Advocating for gun control is not something new for the Church. The Holy See has continuously been a strong voice in opposition to international arms trading, the world’s version of gun control; it’s even in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the official teaching of the Catholic faith (see numbers 2315-2316 in particular) . Here in the United States, the bishops have for decades supported measures to get handguns off the streets, and to ban assault weapons. To cite but one instance, in Responsibility, Rehabilitation, and Restoration, released in 2000, the bishops reiterated their support for legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons. “As bishops, we support measures that control the sale and use of firearms and make them safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner), and we reiterate our call for sensible regulation of handguns.”

 

[Ridgerunner]

Changing gears again?

So it’s not true when Bishop Blaire speaks for the USCCB, even through an official letter to the legislators of the failed legislation? Wouldn’t that obligate an opposing bishop to speak up?

Where was that 500 bishop unity when you were saying Catholics had to vote for candidate “A”?

The last sentence is massively off topic, but I never said 500 bishops said we had to vote for any particular candidate, or against one for that matter.

The opinions of the chairmen of various committees of the USCCB are not binding in conscience. You know that. The provisions of Canon Law on the subject have been cited to you a hundred times here and in other threads. You just ignore it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Possibly one has to use semantics to justify their position.

Below was written, the bottom one by Cardinal Dolan, in direct response to the gunman who killed the innocent children in school, with an AR15.

USCCB Committees Call For Action In Response To Newtown Tragedy

Below is from the blog of the president of the USCCB, Cardinal Dolan.

Advocating for Gun Control

Cdl Dolan left it up to the legislators. He said:

“I don’t pretend to be an expert on what should be in each specific bill, and I will never be an authority on the number of bullets that should be in an ammo clip, or the proper way to conduct background checks before selling someone a firearm. That’s the proper responsibility of our legislators, and, should constitutional questions arise, of our courts.”

He says he is not an expert, and clearly he isn’t. A true assault weapon was not used at Newtown, but an ordinary semi-automatic that superficially resembles one (along with two pistols). In supporting the first Cuomo gun bill, he obviously didn’t realize that it banned all police pistols.

He was right in not pretending to be an expert on what should be in each specific bill, or the number of bullets that should be in a clip or what kind of background checks there should be. That’s why he left it to the legislators and the courts.

The legislators tabled the Obama bill and the courts have said there is an individual right to bear arms.

Case closed.

Do you think, Prodigal, that if repeat the same thing over and over and over again, it will somehow make it true? The Newtown weapon was not an assault weapon. Cdl Dolan might have thought it was, but he also didn’t realize the Cuomo bill he supported banned all police pistols. He admitted he didn’t have expertise in the matter. Why do you insist he’s lying about that?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The last sentence is massively off topic, but I never said 500 bishops said we had to vote for any particular candidate, or against one for that matter.

The opinions of the chairmen of various committees of the USCCB are not binding in conscience. You know that. The provisions of Canon Law on the subject have been cited to you a hundred times here and in other threads. You just ignore it.

So now I’m to believe you know Canon Law better than those men giving us guidance on this issue?

The bishops know about Bishop Blaire’s letters. They even have it posted on their website. Yet no bishop has corrected, clarified, or distanced themselves from the statements?

As to your point that the Cardinal left it to the legislators:

I have a long list of things to pray for this Lent. Asking God’s help that our elected representatives in Washington and in state houses across the country have the courage and the wisdom to pass meaningful and effective gun control bills, will certainly have a prominent place in those prayers.

I believe this shows his intent was for ‘meaningful and effective,’ not ‘oh well they tried.’

You stand with others, but have no bishops to speak in support of your views, even with the well publicized letters, and postings on their own website. To dismiss them, is only another tactic to justify a view that the men of the Church speak openly against.

 

[Meemai]

Possibly one has to use semantics to justify their position.

Below was written, the bottom one by Cardinal Dolan, in direct response to the gunman who killed the innocent children in school, with an AR15.

USCCB Committees Call For Action In Response To Newtown Tragedy

Below is from the blog of the president of the USCCB, Cardinal Dolan.

Advocating for Gun Control

We should stop this it’s senseless. When they go trough a time where they’re loved ones are catching bullets and dripping in a pool of a blood he might change his mind. But he does not see guns as bad. He seems them as a way to protect himself. But forgets that how more people have guns how more danger you are in.

For example here no one can have guns some do illegal but the only ones getting killed with guns in this country are those that are in a illegal circuit, sometimes a lunatic stands up and kills people with guns but this is rare.

On the other hand we can have baseball bats and other weapons and I have a baseball bat in my home in case a burgular enters the house. But I cannot take that same baseball bat with me anywhere on the street and beat people up with it nor can anyone else so we are safe.

But if everyone where to have guns that means everyone could take a shot at me right away.** If no one had guns there was no need to defend AGAINST guns**. I in my life have never seen a gun be fired.

Those are my two cents. and I hope the pope will denounce guns.

Also
examiner.com/article/voice-of-the-pope-backs-obama-gun-edicts

Fr. Federico Lombardi, director of the press office of the Holy See, called “initiatives announced by the United States government in view of limiting and controlling the diffusion and use of arms … a step in the right direction.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Cdl Dolan left it up to the legislators. He said:

“I don’t pretend to be an expert on what should be in each specific bill, and I will never be an authority on the number of bullets that should be in an ammo clip, or the proper way to conduct background checks before selling someone a firearm. That’s the proper responsibility of our legislators, and, should constitutional questions arise, of our courts.”

He says he is not an expert, and clearly he isn’t. A true assault weapon was not used at Newtown, but an ordinary semi-automatic that superficially resembles one (along with two pistols). In supporting the first Cuomo gun bill, he obviously didn’t realize that it banned all police pistols.

He was right in not pretending to be an expert on what should be in each specific bill, or the number of bullets that should be in a clip or what kind of background checks there should be. That’s why he left it to the legislators and the courts.

The legislators tabled the Obama bill and the courts have said there is an individual right to bear arms.

Case closed.

Do you think, Prodigal, that if repeat the same thing over and over and over again, it will somehow make it true? The Newtown weapon was not an assault weapon. Cdl Dolan might have thought it was, but he also didn’t realize the Cuomo bill he supported banned all police pistols. He admitted he didn’t have expertise in the matter. Why do you insist he’s lying about that?

It seems a lot of meaningless post pop to bury that information. I’ve been accused of speaking for the bishops. This is for them to speak for themselves.

USCCB Committees Call For Action In Response To Newtown Tragedy

In their memory and for the sake of our nation, we reiterate our call made in 2000, in our statement, Responsibility, Rehabilitation and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice, for all Americans, especially legislators, to:

1.Support measures that control the sale and use of firearms

2.Support measures that make guns safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner)

3.Call for sensible regulations of handguns

4.Support legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons including assault weapons

5.Make a serious commitment to confront the pervasive role of addiction and mental illness in crime.

As we long for the arrival of the Prince of Peace in this Advent and Christmas season, we call on all people of goodwill to help bring about a culture of life and peace.

Below is from the blog of the president of the USCCB, Cardinal Dolan.

Advocating for Gun Control

Advocating for gun control is not something new for the Church. The Holy See has continuously been a strong voice in opposition to international arms trading, the world’s version of gun control; it’s even in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the official teaching of the Catholic faith (see numbers 2315-2316 in particular) . Here in the United States, the bishops have for decades supported measures to get handguns off the streets, and to ban assault weapons. To cite but one instance, in Responsibility, Rehabilitation, and Restoration, released in 2000, the bishops reiterated their support for legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons. “As bishops, we support measures that control the sale and use of firearms and make them safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner), and we reiterate our call for sensible regulation of handguns.”

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Those are my two cents. and I hope the pope will denounce guns.

We would hear ‘prudential opinion,’ if he did.

 

[Meemai]

We would hear ‘prudential opinion,’ if he did.

examiner.com/article/voice-of-the-pope-backs-obama-gun-edicts

The pope actually backed it!

“Forty-seven religious leaders of various confessions and religions have issued a call to American politicians to limit firearms, which ‘are making society pay an unacceptable price in terms of massacres and senseless deaths,’” Lombardi stated in his address. “I’m with them.”

While acknowledging “that arms, throughout the world, are also instruments for legitimate defense,” and even admitting “No one can be under the illusion that limiting their number and use would be enough to impede horrendous massacres in the future,” Lombardi nonetheless asserted “it is necessary to repeat tirelessly our calls for disarmament, to oppose the production, trade, and smuggling of arms of all types.

“If results are achieved, such as international conventions … all the better!” he proclaimed.

While some Catholics have been quick in past columns to point out when anti-gun endorsements have been issued through Church-owned media that such proclamations are not official doctrine, and that they fly in the face of the Pontifical Council of Justice and peace, which declared “n a world marked by evil and sin, the right of legitimate defense by armed means exists,” the fact remains they are being issued under the ultimate “buck stops here” authority of the Vatican. Indeed, Vatican Radio, which broadcast Fr. Lombardi’s sentiments and published them on its website, bills itself as “The voice of the Pope and the Church in dialog with the world.”

 

[Ridgerunner]

here’s what Cdl Dolan said about the Cuomo bill that banned police pistols

“It’s also why I was very much in favor a month ago when our own New York State legislature, heeding the call of Governor Cuomo, passed NY Safe, (New York Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act) the most comprehensive gun control bill in the country.”

The too-hasty NY legislature realized it had erred when the police raised a furor over it, and quickly changed it.

Obviously, Cdl Dolan didn’t know that he was promoting disarming the police. But then, he admitted he didn’t have the expertise to call for specific measures. Obviously, Cuomo and the NY legislature didn’t have the expertise either, but lacked the good sense to say the same thing.

Anyway, the Obama proposal is dead. It’s history.

 

[Meemai]

Also examiner.com/article/voice-of-the-pope-backs-obama-gun-edicts

“According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, individuals have a right and a duty to protect their own lives when in danger, and someone who ‘defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow,’” CNS concedes, but offers a significant caveat. “According to the catechism, the right to use firearms to ‘repel aggressors’ or render them harmless is specifically sanctioned for ‘those who legitimately hold authority’ and have been given the duty of protecting the community.”

This is a belief in authoritarian supremacy and the magic of the badge known to Gun Rights Examiner readers as “the Only Ones.” That all citizens have this duty does not seem to enter this equation.

 

[Ridgerunner]

examiner.com/article/voice-of-the-pope-backs-obama-gun-edicts

The pope actually backed it!

Indeed, Vatican Radio, which broadcast Fr. Lombardi’s sentiments and published them on its website, bills itself as “The voice of the Pope and the Church in dialog with the world.”

This is a total falsehood, and let’s assume you didn’t know it.

The cited article does not quote the Pope at all. It claims Lombardi spoke for the Pope when Lombardi himself said he didn’t.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

This is a total falsehood, and you know it.

The cited article does not quote the Pope at all. It claims Lombardi spoke for the Pope when Lombardi himself said he didn’t.

Show us one bishop who speaks against the gun controls called for by the outspoken bishops.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Also examiner.com/article/voice-of-the-pope-backs-obama-gun-edicts

“According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, individuals have a right and a duty to protect their own lives when in danger, and someone who ‘defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow,’” CNS concedes, but offers a significant caveat. “According to the catechism, the right to use firearms to ‘repel aggressors’ or render them harmless is specifically sanctioned for ‘those who legitimately hold authority’ and have been given the duty of protecting the community.”

.

The bolded language is the opinion of Cdl Dolan, who admitted he didn’t have the expertise to frame gun legislation and left it to the legislature. Those who “legitimately hold authority” tabled the Obama proposal. Even Harry Reid wouldn’t support it.

It’s dead.

 

[Meemai]

This is a total falsehood, and let’s assume you didn’t know it.

The cited article does not quote the Pope at all. It claims Lombardi spoke for the Pope when Lombardi himself said he didn’t.

Alright so the pope did not back it up. Still I think the Father is right. And yes I did not know it.

But yeah I am wondering which bishop is all for the weapons. Which bishop says ‘more weapons?!’

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The bolded language is the opinion of Cdl Dolan, who admitted he didn’t have the expertise to frame gun legislation and left it to the legislature. Those who “legitimately hold authority” tabled the Obama proposal. Even Harry Reid wouldn’t support it.

It’s dead.

So bishop Blaire was incorrect that the bishops would continue their efforts?

The quote you keep misusing, as if Cardinal Dolan only called for them to act and it would be over, ends with:

**

I have a long list of things to pray for this Lent. Asking God’s help that our elected representatives in Washington and in state houses across the country have the courage and the wisdom to pass meaningful and effective gun control bills, will certainly have a prominent place in those prayers.

**

His intent for meaningful and effective gun control bills, not an attempt.

Your argument is on sandy ground.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Show us one bishop who speaks against the gun controls called for by the outspoken bishops.

Show us why the 500+ bishops who said nothing about the Obama bill didn’t think it was important enough to even support it in their own diocesan newspapers. Mine sure didn’t.

Cdl Dolan supported what he thought it was, but let it go when Congress tabled the Obama bill. Bp. Blaire still thinks the Obama bill ought to be passed. A couple of other bishops are apparently with him on that.

That’s all there is. If the Obama bill was an important moral issue, the bishops, including my own, would speak in favor of it. They didn’t. Why do you consider them derelict in their moral duty for failure to do it?

Your Obama bill is dead. Face it. And only Bp Blaire and you want to resurrect it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Show us why the 500+ bishops who said nothing about the Obama bill didn’t think it was important enough to even support it in their own diocesan newspapers. Mine sure didn’t.

Cdl Dolan supported what he thought it was, but let it go when Congress tabled the Obama bill. Bp. Blaire still thinks the Obama bill ought to be passed. A couple of other bishops are apparently with him on that.

That’s all there is. If the Obama bill was an important moral issue, the bishops, including my own, would speak in favor of it. They didn’t. Why do you consider them derelict in their moral duty for failure to do it?

Your Obama bill is dead. Face it. And only Bp Blaire and you want to resurrect it.

Show us one bishop who disagreed with those bishops that spoke out, and stated they represented the USCCB. Just one.

It wasn’t about Obama. It wasn’t about an eradication of guns. Those are thrown in to place fear of losing guns among those who see the common sense necessity of gun controls, as referenced by Cardinal Dolan.

You stand without the support of any bishops, on this issue…not one.

 

[Ridgerunner]

So bishop Blaire was incorrect that the bishops would continue their efforts?

The quote you keep misusing, as if Cardinal Dolan only called for them to act and it would be over, ends with:

---

His intent for meaningful and effective gun control bills, not an attempt.

Your argument is on sandy ground.

Are you actually saying Cdl Dolan knew what the gun laws were in the various states, counties, municipalities, etc? He didn’t even know what was in the Cuomo bill in New York. But he admitted he had no expertise.

Various jurisdictions do, in fact, pass gun legislation as they and the people see fit to pass it. Cdl Dolan is content with that. You and Bp Blaire are not. So you, Blaire and Obama want certain things and nobody will go along with you.

Give it up.

 

[SamH]

But if everyone where to have guns that means everyone could take a shot at me right away.** If no one had guns there was no need to defend AGAINST guns**.

OK. But this isn’t fantasy land - it is earth.

I in my life have never seen a gun be fired.

Good for you.

 

[Meemai]

Show us why the 500+ bishops who said nothing about the Obama bill didn’t think it was important enough to even support it in their own diocesan newspapers. Mine sure didn’t.

Cdl Dolan supported what he thought it was, but let it go when Congress tabled the Obama bill. Bp. Blaire still thinks the Obama bill ought to be passed. A couple of other bishops are apparently with him on that.

That’s all there is. If the Obama bill was an important moral issue, the bishops, including my own, would speak in favor of it. They didn’t. Why do you consider them derelict in their moral duty for failure to do it?

Your Obama bill is dead. Face it. And only Bp Blaire and you want to resurrect it.

Let’s say in theory, pope Francis would tomorrow denounce guns. Would you turn them in? And don’t lie here.

OK. But this isn’t fantasy land - it is earth.

Good for you.

Fantasy land? Here no one evne has a gun. I can walk on the street and no one has a gun… So how can anyone be shot where I live? It’s not fantasy land. You just have tunnel vision. And I will wait for the day that the pope denounces guns.

And I really hope for you will not find your family in a pool of blood but if you do I will tell you.

Good for you