Does the Catholic Church have a position on gun control?

[Ridgerunner]

Show us one bishop who disagreed with those bishops that spoke out, and stated they represented the USCCB. Just one.

It wasn’t about Obama. It wasn’t about an eradication of guns. Those are thrown in to place fear of losing guns among those who see the common sense necessity of gun controls, as referenced by Cardinal Dolan.

You stand without the support of any bishops, on this issue…not one.

The bishops have not spoken specifically about a great number of things. They do speak about things they consider of moral importance. They are the shepherds of their respective diocese and have an absolute moral obligation to teach on matters of morals.

And yet, only Bp Blaire now stands in support of the Obama bill. Well, and you too. Maybe even Obama doesn’t anymore.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Are you actually saying Cdl Dolan knew what the gun laws were in the various states, counties, municipalities, etc? He didn’t even know what was in the Cuomo bill in New York. But he admitted he had no expertise.

Various jurisdictions do, in fact, pass gun legislation as they and the people see fit to pass it. Cdl Dolan is content with that. You and Bp Blaire are not. So you, Blaire and Obama want certain things and nobody will go along with you.

Give it up.

He left the legislation up to the experts. That did not remove the intent in his call for supporting gun control legislation.

Because the gun lobby is rich and powerful, it’s more believable than the bishops? I’m shocked you can’t see the folly of your comment.

 

[SamH]

Let’s say in theory, pope Francis would tomorrow denounce guns. Would you turn them in? And don’t lie here.

Fantasy land? Here no one evne has a gun. I can walk on the street and no one has a gun… So how can anyone be shot where I live?:

Did Tristan van der Vlis know that?

 

[Meemai]

Did Tristan van der Vlis know that?

Tristan van der Vlis that’s funny.

He actually was a member of a shooting club and did have a permit for a gun. Did he not have a permit he would not be able to have done it. So the gun permit he has was to blame. He is then also the reason why there should be no gun permits.

 

[SamH]

Tristan van der Vlis that’s funny.

He actually was a member of a shooting club and did have a permit for a gun. Did he not have a permit he would not be able to have done it. So the gun permit he has was to blame. He is then also the reason why there should be no gun permits.

Not funny at all.

So much for your “no guns” claim.

 

[Meemai]

He left the legislation up to the experts. That did not remove the intent in his call for supporting gun control legislation.

Because the gun lobby is rich and powerful, it’s more believable than the bishops? I’m shocked you can’t see the folly of your comment.

I wonder where they go on judgement day, with all the lifes they took.

guns.periscopic.com/?year=2013

Look at this site. It still is not fully loaded where I am at but it’s worrisome.

 

[Meemai]

Not funny at all.

So much for your “no guns” claim.

Are you blind? It’s funny that you bring him up because HE HAD A GUN PERMIT.

Did he not have a gun permit. NO ONE WOULD HAVE DIED. He is the number one reason that you could use in a argument why a gun permit is bad.

http://s23.postimg.org/dbsz5i6sa/22222.jpg
What would Jesus think of this?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Let’s say in theory, pope Francis would tomorrow denounce guns. Would you turn them in? And don’t lie here.

A false choice, but let’s play with it.

If Pope Francis said no Catholic could morally be in possession of a gun, just like that, not for protection, not for hunting, not for self-preservation against wildlife, not for eradication of pests, I would bury mine in the ground forever. I would certainly begin working on a good Osage Orange bow to protect myself and my family against predatory wildlife, as poor an instrument as that would be. I would do that. Possibly also a post oak spear.

I would not give any guns to the government because I would never trust this government to get rid of its guns. Nor would I trust an administration that gave guns to drug dealers not to give them to anybody else.

I would certainly prepare myself for the ruthless persecution of the Church in the U.S. this government would surely mount against a helpless population.

I would explain to my protestant neighbors that I might need to call on them for help from time to time.

But I do not for a minute believe the Pope will do that. He has so far tolerated guns in the hands of his bodyguards, has he not?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The bishops have not spoken specifically about a great number of things. They do speak about things they consider of moral importance. They are the shepherds of their respective diocese and have an absolute moral obligation to teach on matters of morals.

And yet, only Bp Blaire now stands in support of the Obama bill. Well, and you too. Maybe even Obama doesn’t anymore.

Do you think people dieing, and losing a dignity of life in all respects even possible salvation, is not of moral importance?

Bishop Blaire stated he represented the USCCB, and is the chairman of one of their committees, and all of his communications are posted on the USCCB website. Do you think the bishops don’t know about his statements, with all the publicity they received? Yet, not one bishop spoke correction, clarification, or distanced themselves from those statements. I believe he is speaking truth.

 

[SamH]

Are you blind? It’s funny that you bring him up because HE HAD A GUN PERMIT.

Did he not have a gun permit. NO ONE WOULD HAVE DIED. He is the number one reason that you could use in a argument why a gun permit is bad.

http://s23.postimg.org/dbsz5i6sa/22222.jpg
What would Jesus think of this?

Source for this claim?

 

[Meemai]

Do you think people dieing, and losing a dignity of life in all respects even possible salvation, is not of moral importance?

Bishop Blaire stated he represented the USCCB, and is the chairman of one of their committees, and all of his communications are posted on the USCCB website. Do you think the bishops don’t know about his statements, with all the publicity they received? Yet, not one bishop spoke correction, clarification, or distanced themselves from those statements. I believe he is speaking truth.

Yup why would every bishop say what he thinks of it. If Blaire is been given the task. If the other bishops keep silent it must mean they do agree with him else they would let us know they would be. Because they have gotten his letters etc.

Is there not a way catholics can reach pope Francis and let him denounce guns?

 

[Meemai]

Source for this claim?

guns.periscopic.com/?year=2013

2013
Our 2010 data was the latest such information released by the federal government, but we had to resort to a less refined source to obtain current data for 2013. Anonymous Twitter user, @GunDeaths, continuously gathers and tweets gun-related deaths in the U.S. As long as a verifiable source is provided, anyone can contribute through Twitter or email. He—as well as we—acknowledge that this data is incomplete. Some of the data may be missing or inaccurate, and many killings are not even reported in an online news source. While this data is less reliable, it provides a real-time window into daily gun violence on a national scale.

The FBI 2010 dataset included only homicides. However, because the 2013 deaths are crowdsourced from online news sources, it becomes much more difficult to programmatically distinguish which reports are suicides and which are homicides. Therefore, suicides are included in this 2013 visualization.

1. Which the FBI is a source for,.

http://s12.postimg.org/tpn11mrfh/222222222222.png

 

[Ridgerunner]

He left the legislation up to the experts. That did not remove the intent in his call for supporting gun control legislation.

Because the gun lobby is rich and powerful, it’s more believable than the bishops? I’m shocked you can’t see the folly of your comment.

I pay absolutely no attention to the “gun lobby” whoever they are. The NRA? Is that who you’re talking about? I’m not a member. Never have been.

Or do you mean the rich and powerful government that, this very day, sells semi-automatic rifles to the public? Obama could stop that with a word, but he doesn’t.

Do I think Cdl Dolan or Bp Blaire know more than I do about what I run into out in the woods? No, I certainly don’t think they do.

Cdl Dolan left it up to the experts because he himself said he has no expertise. He proved his point by supporting a bill that removed guns from the police. I’m sure that was as embarrassing to him as it was to the NY legislature and Cuomo, but less so because he admitted he had no expertise whereas they did not admit it.

There is a lot of gun control legislation. Mountains of it, passed by the various political subdivisions doing the will of the populace. I’m sure Cdl Dolan didn’t know any more about what the various jurisdictions’ gun control measures are than he did about what was in the Cuomo bill. But he didn’t claim to.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I pay absolutely no attention to the “gun lobby” whoever they are. The NRA? Is that who you’re talking about? I’m not a member. Never have been.

Or do you mean the rich and powerful government that, this very day, sells semi-automatic rifles to the public? Obama could stop that with a word, but he doesn’t.

Do I think Cdl Dolan or Bp Blaire know more than I do about what I run into out in the woods? No, I certainly don’t think they do.

Cdl Dolan left it up to the experts because he himself said he has no expertise. He proved his point by supporting a bill that removed guns from the police. I’m sure that was as embarrassing to him as it was to the NY legislature and Cuomo, but less so because he admitted he had no expertise whereas they did not admit it.

There is a lot of gun control legislation. Mountains of it, passed by the various political subdivisions doing the will of the populace. I’m sure Cdl Dolan didn’t know any more about what the various jurisdictions’ gun control measures are than he did about what was in the Cuomo bill. But he didn’t claim to.

You’ve changed the stand so many times, I can’t even keep up with what it is anymore. I only know there is no support from an bishop, and I believe the guidance is moral, in a secular world. You realize guns are secular, right?

Leaving it to the experts doesn’t mean he was only taking one shot at this issue. He clearly showed his intent was for meaningful and effective gun controls, not an attempt.

Lots of gun controls, yet sales take place everyday where background checks are not required. Is that meaningful and effective?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Do you think people dieing, and losing a dignity of life in all respects even possible salvation, is not of moral importance?

Bishop Blaire stated he represented the USCCB, and is the chairman of one of their committees, and all of his communications are posted on the USCCB website. Do you think the bishops don’t know about his statements, with all the publicity they received? Yet, not one bishop spoke correction, clarification, or distanced themselves from those statements. I believe he is speaking truth.

Do you really think if it was of that moral importance, the 500 bishops, including mine, would not have said anything about it? If it was really a matter of losing a dignity of life and salvation, I would expect them to be all over it, and they would be, because they have a moral obligation to the salvation of those entrusted to them.

But they’re not. Every diocese in the country has a newspaper, including mine. And in mine, the bishop has a column, every week, on matters of moral importance. Never once has he mentioned gun control, let alone your and Obama’s wishes about the matter.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Do you really think if it was of that moral importance, the 500 bishops, including mine, would not have said anything about it? If it was really a matter of losing a dignity of life and salvation, I would expect them to be all over it, and they would be, because they have a moral obligation to the salvation of those entrusted to them.

But they’re not. Every diocese in the country has a newspaper, including mine. And in mine, the bishop has a column, every week, on matters of moral importance. Never once has he mentioned gun control, let alone your and Obama’s wishes about the matter.

They said something, through their hierarchy. You refuse to accept it.

Show me where ALL bishops spoke support on such an issue.

 

[Meemai]

Do you really think if it was of that moral importance, the 500 bishops, including mine, would not have said anything about it? If it was really a matter of losing a dignity of life and salvation, I would expect them to be all over it, and they would be, because they have a moral obligation to the salvation of those entrusted to them.

But they’re not. Every diocese in the country has a newspaper, including mine. And in mine, the bishop has a column, every week, on matters of moral importance. Never once has he mentioned gun control, let alone your and Obama’s wishes about the matter.

My bishop is against guns. Though he is not from the US.

They said something, through their hierarchy. You refuse to accept it.

Show me where ALL bishops spoke support on such an issue.

Hierachy is hard to understand for gunslingers, for they are cowboys that make the rules themselves.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

My bishop is against guns. Though he is not from the US.

All the bishops are for meaningful and effective gun controls.

You see how the arguments change, as challenges are met. They have no inclination to accepting other, which places guns in a peculiar position with the Gospels. We sacrifice for people, not for guns.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You’ve changed the stand so many times, I can’t even keep up with what it is anymore. I only know there is no support from an bishop, and I believe the guidance is moral, in a secular world. You realize guns are secular, right?

Leaving it to the experts doesn’t mean he was only taking one shot at this issue. He clearly showed his intent was for meaningful and effective gun controls, not an attempt.

Lots of gun controls, yet sales take place everyday where background checks are not required. Is that meaningful and effective?

If you are now claiming to read Cdl Dolan’s mind, then we might as well abandon the subject. He has not said word one about it after the Obama bill went down in flames.

I very much realize guns are secular. The subject is secular. It is you, not me, who claims the bishops of the U.S. support the Obama bill, not me.

I’m not against background checks. You just assumed that and ignored what I said about it in the other thread. I would even make mental health records available to the police. But I draw the line when Obama and you want me to do a background check on my own son before giving him a rifle, or somehow doing a background check on myself before inheriting one.

 

[Ridgerunner]

All the bishops are for meaningful and effective gun controls.

You see how the arguments change, as challenges are met. They have no inclination to accepting other, which places guns in a peculiar position with the Gospels. We sacrifice for people, not for guns.

Well, who isn’t for meaningful and effective gun controls? I am too. But I’m just not for the Obama proposal you advocate.

I don’t understand your second paragraph. The sentences don’t work.