does the Catholic Church make it too hard to get into heaven?

[upant]

If the church can write the rules that will be bound in heaven; why are there so many ways to fall short and end up in hell? It is supposed to be so easy a child can understand. I’d like to meet the child that can understand the entire catechism.

To clarify it seems the early church just needed Jesus and to follow his rules. Now you have to believe in the saints, Mary, Trinity, abstain, go to mass, etc. etc. etc.

If the church dropped all of the trappings and went back to a basic worship in Jesus it would be easier for many to enter heaven.

just my nickles worth

 

[St_Redemption]

If the church can write the rules that will be bound in heaven; why are there so many ways to fall short and end up in hell? It is supposed to be so easy a child can understand. I’d like to meet the child that can understand the entire catechism.

To clarify it seems the early church just needed Jesus and to follow his rules. Now you have to believe in the saints, Mary, Trinity, abstain, go to mass, etc. etc. etc.

If the church dropped all of the trappings and went back to a basic worship in Jesus it would be easier for many to enter heaven.

just my nickles worth

I don’t think that the CCC states that if you don’t go to Mass, or any of the others, that you will explicitly end up in Hell. It contains the rules one would follow if they wished to be a fully dedicated Catholic, yes. But it does not state that a dis-belief in the assumption of Mary will send you to Hell.

 

[zz912]

If the church can write the rules that will be bound in heaven; why are there so many ways to fall short and end up in hell? It is supposed to be so easy a child can understand. I’d like to meet the child that can understand the entire catechism.

To clarify it seems the early church just needed Jesus and to follow his rules. Now you have to believe in the saints, Mary, Trinity, abstain, go to mass, etc. etc. etc.

If the church dropped all of the trappings and went back to a basic worship in Jesus it would be easier for many to enter heaven.

just my nickles worth

I’m having trouble understanding why you think it’s difficult to understand the Christian faith. Let’s look at your examples:

Saints - The Church teaches that there are certain people God has revealed to us who are in Heaven. They were faithful to God and attained Heaven. What is hard to understand about this teaching?

Mary - Marian teachings reveal truths about Jesus. The Church teaches them to proclaim the truth about Jesus. The are four teachings about Mary:

1. Mother of God - She really did give birth to and mothered God Incarnate, Jesus. He is fully God AND fully man.
2. Perpetual Virginity - Mary remained a virgin before, during and after His birth. She is the Ark of the New Covenant, a pure tabernacle that God entered into our universe. And the gate that God passes through, no man shall pass through.
3. Immaculate Conception - Mary was saved and kept pure, even from Original Sin, at her conception, so that she would be the completely pure Ark of the New Covenant.
4. Assumption - Jesus delivered to her the promise He gives us all, that we will be reunited with our bodies and be with Him in Heaven.

Trinity - This is truth that God revealed to us. Why should the Church not proclaim it? Jesus commanded us to baptize in the ONE name of the “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”.

Abstaining & Fasting - these practices are taught by the Church as being highly beneficial to our spiritual growth, as they help us to get out of our normal routines and focus some time where we really focus on God. Denial of some things temporarily helps to wake us out of our slumber. Remember, Jesus gave instructions about how to fast WHEN we are fasting, not IF we are fasting.

Go to Mass - God didn’t end the 10 Commandments. And He’s pretty adamant about taking at least one day a week to worship Him as a community.

I don’t see where these teachings are difficult at all to understand. My 9 year old understands them fine. She’s not ready to write a theology book anytime soon, but she understands the faith in its basics.

And let’s not forget that Jesus didn’t say that following Him would be easy. Taking up a cross isn’t playtime.

 

[St_Redemption]

The Catechism isn’t simple because reality isn’t simple. And God, is infinitely more complicated than our view of reality. Reality, therefore, calls for a complicated explanation. You can’t accurately explain religion in the language of a 4 year old.

 

[1ke]

does the Catholic Church make it too hard to get into heaven?

Well, firstly, doctrine doesn’t come from the Church, it comes from God. It is the deposit of faith, and Christ is the one who deposited it.

If the church can write the rules that will be bound in heaven; why are there so many ways to fall short and end up in hell?

There is a difference between “rules”, a.k.a. traditions or canon law, and doctrine.

There are many ways to fall short but it is the Lord himself who shared that reality with us. Read Matthew’s gospel. Many who cry “Lord, Lord” will be cast into the fire.

It is supposed to be so easy a child can understand. I’d like to meet the child that can understand the entire catechism.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. Upon this the whole law and prophets depend.

Yes, simple and easy to understand.

Hard to do.

To clarify it seems the early church just needed Jesus and to follow his rules. Now you have to believe in the saints, Mary, Trinity, abstain, go to mass, etc. etc. etc.

You have a distorted view of the early church if you believe that. The early Church venerated Mary and the Saints, abstained on many more numerous days than we do, went to Mass (and to synagogue on top of going to Mass).

And they did indeed debate and discuss the meaning of Scripture vis-à-vis the Trinity. A most important discussion to have. Either Jesus is God or he isn’t. It makes a difference.

If the church dropped all of the trappings and went back to a basic worship in Jesus it would be easier for many to enter heaven.

This certainly misunderstands “the trappings”. What we do is worship Jesus. And, it is no easier or harder to get into heaven in 34 AD than it is now.

 

[fred_conty]

If the church can write the rules that will be bound in heaven; why are there so many ways to fall short and end up in hell? It is supposed to be so easy a child can understand. I’d like to meet the child that can understand the entire catechism.

To clarify it seems the early church just needed Jesus and to follow his rules. Now you have to believe in the saints, Mary, Trinity, abstain, go to mass, etc. etc. etc.

If the church dropped all of the trappings and went back to a basic worship in Jesus it would be easier for many to enter heaven.

just my nickles worth

Here is the thing. It isn’t that laws are made to make our life impossible, But that laws are made to make it possible.

In the Psalms, there is an idea of pursuing and desiring to know the decrees and commands of God. There is a sneaky idea in the back of a lot of peoples minds not to know the decrees and commands of God so that they don’t have to follow them.
These miss a valuable point of those very decrees of God.

God is our maker, and He knows exactly what will make us function well and to live successfully. So God, in order to help us to get along with each other, and to make us reasonably peaceful and content, lays down his decrees and commands to help us in this. They are actually pieces of wisdom. He being the creator, designed us and well knows what we need. So when he tells us of his precepts, they are not to make God happy, but to help us to function in the world and bring about normal peace and happiness.

So the reason Jesus established his church was to make sure we understand and know what his precepts are, and to help us to follow them for our good.

Of course children can know what they need to know which is limited by their age.
Adults should know more. But as everyone is growing, not only physically, but in their circumstances of life, we need to keep studing and learning in order to apply this wisdom to our current state in life. Learning is never finished. And there are more things that will help us than just the catechism.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Only God can say who gets into heaven. The Catholic Church cannot make that any easier or harder. The Church is just the messenger.

But it’s pretty simple. You are guaranteed salvation if you receive Christian Baptism and avoid subsequent mortal sin. You don’t need to be Baptized in a Catholic Church - most protestant faiths practice valid Baptism. You don’t even need to be Baptized by a Christian. A Hindu, Muslim, or atheist can confer valid Christian Baptism, provided he or she simply intends to do what the Church does in Baptism (even if he or she has no idea what that is).

Baptism is the most simple of Sacraments. It can be validly performed in the time that it takes for you (yes, YOU) to say, “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” The proximate matter is WATER. It does not require oil, or candles, or Creeds, or white gowns.

Once you are Baptized, you are assured salvation, provided you don’t screw it up. You don’t need (personal) faith, works, beliefs, prayer, or any other thing.

The only way you can screw up your salvation is if you willingly and deliberately give it up. You must do this with full knowledge and complete consent. This is a high standard. It is so high that many theologians question whether a person of good will could even commit a mortal sin (we’re not talking gangsters here - we’re talking about your mother and your Aunt Suzie).

BUT, if you DO manage to commit a mortal sin, you can fix that simply by going to Confession. It takes less than five minutes. And you’re right back to where you were when you got wet. In a pinch, you don’t even need to confess anything to receive absolution from a priest. And, in a worst case scenario, you don’t even need a priest.

Short of saying “there is no hell - everyone goes to heaven,” could you tell me how the Church could make this any EASIER?

 

[Memaw]

If the church can write the rules that will be bound in heaven; why are there so many ways to fall short and end up in hell? It is supposed to be so easy a child can understand. I’d like to meet the child that can understand the entire catechism.

To clarify it seems the early church just needed Jesus and to follow his rules. Now you have to believe in the saints, Mary, Trinity, abstain, go to mass, etc. etc. etc.

If the church dropped all of the trappings and went back to a basic worship in Jesus it would be easier for many to enter heaven.

just my nickles worth

Jesus said the road to Heaven is narrow and difficult to follow and the road to Hell is wide and easy to follow. If properly understood the teachings of the Catholic Church is much easier. safer, and peaceful to follow. Sin is a heavy burden, guilt is a pull on your heart! No one who lives a life of sin is truly happy, free or peaceful. The Sacraments of the Catholic Church are the source of strength to live a good life. Children can understand the Catholic Church if taught to them at their level of understanding in truth. You want to eliminate the very things that help us walk that narrow path to Heaven. I wouldn’t trade the Peace and Joy and security for following the teachings of the Catholic Church for any sinful pleasure on the face of this earth. God Bless, Memaw

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Only God can say who gets into heaven. The Catholic Church cannot make that any easier or harder. The Church is just the messenger.

But it’s pretty simple. You are guaranteed salvation if you receive Christian Baptism and avoid subsequent mortal sin. You don’t need to be Baptized in a Catholic Church - most protestant faiths practice valid Baptism. You don’t even need to be Baptized by a Christian. A Hindu, Muslim, or atheist can confer valid Christian Baptism, provided he or she simply intends to do what the Church does in Baptism (even if he or she has no idea what that is).

Baptism is the most simple of Sacraments. It can be validly performed in the time that it takes for you (yes, YOU) to say, “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” The proximate matter is WATER. It does not require oil, or candles, or Creeds, or white gowns.

Once you are Baptized, you are assured salvation, provided you don’t screw it up. You don’t need (personal) faith, works, beliefs, prayer, or any other thing.

The only way you can screw up your salvation is if you willingly and deliberately give it up. You must do this with full knowledge and complete consent. This is a high standard. It is so high that many theologians question whether a person of good will could even commit a mortal sin (we’re not talking gangsters here - we’re talking about your mother and your Aunt Suzie).

BUT, if you DO manage to commit a mortal sin, you can fix that simply by going to Confession. It takes less than five minutes. And you’re right back to where you were when you got wet. In a pinch, you don’t even need to confess anything to receive absolution from a priest. And, in a worst case scenario, you don’t even need a priest.

Short of saying “there is no hell - everyone goes to heaven,” could you tell me how the Church could make this any EASIER?

Pretty much this. The Church makes it easy, you just have to be willing to accept God’s will instead of your own.

 

[Joe_5859]

Sin makes it hard to get into heaven. The Church makes it easy.

 

[Memaw]

Only God can say who gets into heaven. The Catholic Church cannot make that any easier or harder. The Church is just the messenger.

But it’s pretty simple. You are guaranteed salvation if you receive Christian Baptism and avoid subsequent mortal sin. You don’t need to be Baptized in a Catholic Church - most protestant faiths practice valid Baptism. You don’t even need to be Baptized by a Christian. A Hindu, Muslim, or atheist can confer valid Christian Baptism, provided he or she simply intends to do what the Church does in Baptism (even if he or she has no idea what that is).

Baptism is the most simple of Sacraments. It can be validly performed in the time that it takes for you (yes, YOU) to say, “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” The proximate matter is WATER. It does not require oil, or candles, or Creeds, or white gowns.

Once you are Baptized, you are assured salvation, provided you don’t screw it up. You don’t need (personal) faith, works, beliefs, prayer, or any other thing.

The only way you can screw up your salvation is if you willingly and deliberately give it up. You must do this with full knowledge and complete consent. This is a high standard. It is so high that many theologians question whether a person of good will could even commit a mortal sin (we’re not talking gangsters here - we’re talking about your mother and your Aunt Suzie).

BUT, if you DO manage to commit a mortal sin, you can fix that simply by going to Confession. It takes less than five minutes. And you’re right back to where you were when you got wet. In a pinch, you don’t even need to confess anything to receive absolution from a priest. And, in a worst case scenario, you don’t even need a priest.

Short of saying “there is no hell - everyone goes to heaven,” could you tell me how the Church could make this any EASIER?

I disagree with most of what you have said, I think a good class of instructions in the Catholic church is needed. So many who are not well learned in the Catholic Faith give misleading advice.
Baptism is not a simple Sacrament. It is profoundly important and is just the beginning of a life long journey into holiness. Only in an emergency can it be done the way you described. Catholics are not allowed to Baptize any ole way, any ole time for any ole reason.
It is NOT that hard to commit a mortal sin. That was a false teaching, (among many) given after Vat. II. Your idea of Confession is off base too, You really need to talk to a priest about all these things. God Bless, Memaw

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I disagree with most of what you have said, I think a good class of instructions in the Catholic church is needed. So many who are not well learned in the Catholic Faith give misleading advice.

Baptism is not a simple Sacrament.

He meant that the physical process of Baptism is simple. All you need is two people and some water. Compared to what you gain from it, saving grace, Baptism is a profoundly simple sacrament to perform / undergo. A person doesn’t even need valid Holy Orders to be able to perform it.

It is profoundly important and is just the beginning of a life long journey into holiness.

Quite true, he wasn’t trying to say it wasn’t.

Only in an emergency can it be done the way you described. Catholics are not allowed to Baptize any ole way, any ole time for any ole reason.

Again, true; but the point is that anyone -can- baptize if the situation calls for it. Again, compared to what is gained, it is a very simple sacrament to take part in.

It is NOT that hard to commit a mortal sin. That was a false teaching, (among many) given after Vat. II. Your idea of Confession is off base too, You really need to talk to a priest about all these things. God Bless, Memaw

It is not hard to commit an objectively mortal sin. What is being considered is if it is easy to actually commit a mortal sin. Specifically, they are considering if it is is for a baptized, believing, practicing, faithful Christian to commit one. One of the requirements for something to be a mortal sin is an assent of the will to an act with completely knowledge that it will separate you from God. There is a question if it is possible for a Christian, as described above, to actually will to be separated from God. This doesn’t mean that we won’t still treat mortal sin as mortal sin, and won’t require confession prior to reception of the Eucharist is someone has committed and objectively mortal sin. We are simply studying the depth of faith, as we have always done.

I’ll agree that he was wrong about not need to confess anything specific. If you have any objective mortal sin on your conscience, you must confess it in name and number. Other than that, there is nothing particularly troubling about his post.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I’ll agree that he was wrong about not need to confess anything specific.

Thank you for otherwise speaking on my behalf. But I got that one right also.

In a dire situation (bombs are dropping), a priest may validly pronounce absolution to a large crowd, with nobody confessing anything.

A person facing death without a priest may receive the Grace of Sacramental absolution provided he has true (perfect) contrition and intends to attend Confession as soon as possible if he survives (but the Grace is still operative if he survives). This Grace is not assured, because only God knows if we have true contrition (we don’t even know ourselves). But it is possible.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Thank you for otherwise speaking on my behalf. But I got that one right also.

In a dire situation (bombs are dropping), a priest may validly pronounce absolution to a large crowd, with nobody confessing anything.

A person facing death without a priest may receive the Grace of Sacramental absolution provided he has true (perfect) contrition and intends to attend Confession as soon as possible if he survives (but the Grace is still operative if he survives). This Grace is not assured, because only God knows if we have true contrition (we don’t even know ourselves). But it is possible.

Really? Could you please cite that in the Catechism or elsewhere for me? (I’m not doubting your word, I know you know what you’re talking about; I just thought that that sort of practiced was deemed incorrect and outlawed per canon law.)

 

[DavidFilmer]

It is NOT that hard to commit a mortal sin. That was a false teaching, (among many) given after Vat. II.

Actually, that argument goes back at least to St. Thomas Aquinas and the Scholastics. It predates Vat-2 and Vat-1 and Trent. I agree that it has become more prominent since Vat-2, but it has never been ruled a “false teaching” and it is still one of the most widely discussed and debated question among faithful Catholic theologians today.

Any Catholic is perfectly free to believe that hell exists but it is empty. This is not contrary to any Catholic doctrine.

 

[edwest2]

We all have Original Sin. It is easier for us to sin than not. The reality of man is this: we have a physical body and a soul. When we are baptized and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, we follow His commandments for our benefit as well as for our salvation. Sure, even devout Catholics sin. We’re still sinners, but we cannot be indifferent. And even though we are saved by faith through grace, faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

The Church coveys all the Commandments and requirements to us. It does nor force us. God will not force you to love Him. So think of it as being in a relationship. Real relationships take work. God loves you. He will also refine us like gold (1 Peter 1:6 through 1:8). Jesus named the Trinity, which includes Himself, the Father and the Spirit of God. See Matthew 3:16.

For too many, religion is thought of as being “too restrictive.” Our lives are brief compared to eternity. Although, some days, it feels like what we’re doing is like eternity

We seem to have so many options in life but God has given us the way to get to heaven. And we need to understand that what we think is right is incomplete.

biblehub.com/proverbs/14-12.htm

The Catholic Church has the fullness of the truth. Being with God after we die is the goal.

biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/12-13.htm

Ed

 

[iohannes13]

And .

 

[DavidFilmer]

Really? Could you please cite that in the Catechism or elsewhere for me? (I’m not doubting your word, I know you know what you’re talking about; I just thought that that sort of practiced was deemed incorrect and outlawed per canon law.)

Sure. From the actual Code of Canon Law:

CHAPTER I.

THE CELEBRATION OF THE SACRAMENT

Can. 960 Individual and integral confession and absolution constitute the only ordinary means by which a member of the faithful conscious of grave sin is reconciled with God and the Church. Only physical or moral impossibility excuses from confession of this type; in such a case reconciliation can be obtained by other means.

Can. 961 §1. Absolution cannot be imparted in a general manner to many penitents at once without previous individual confession unless:

1/ danger of death is imminent and there is insufficient time for the priest or priests to hear the confessions of the individual penitents;

2/ there is grave necessity, that is, when in view of the number of penitents, there are not enough confessors available to hear the confessions of individuals properly within a suitable period of time in such a way that the penitents are forced to be deprived for a long while of sacramental grace or holy communion through no fault of their own. Sufficient necessity is not considered to exist when confessors cannot be present due only to the large number of penitents such as can occur on some great feast or pilgrimage.

§2. It belongs to the diocesan bishop to judge whether the conditions required according to the norm of §1, n. 2 are present. He can determine the cases of such necessity, attentive to the criteria agreed upon with the other members of the conference of bishops.

Can. 962 §1. For a member of the Christian faithful validly to receive sacramental absolution given to many at one time, it is required not only that the person is properly disposed but also at the same time intends to confess within a suitable period of time each grave sin which at the present time cannot be so confessed.

§2. Insofar as it can be done even on the occasion of the reception of general absolution, the Christian faithful are to be instructed about the requirements of the norm of §1. An exhortation that each person take care to make an act of contrition is to precede general absolution even in the case of danger of death, if there is time.

Can. 963 Without prejudice to the obligation mentioned in ⇒ can. 989, a person whose grave sins are remitted by general absolution is to approach individual confession as soon as possible, given the opportunity, before receiving another general absolution, unless a just cause intervenes.

General absolution has often been administered to armies before going into battle. If the soldiers survive, they are expected to attend regular confession at the first opportunity.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Sure. From the actual Code of Canon Law:

General absolution has often been administered to armies before going into battle. If the soldiers survive, they are expected to attend regular confession at the first opportunity.

Thank you kindly. That is good to know, I’ve always held a bit of concern for our soldiers who do not have time for individual confessions on the battlefield.

 

[ProdigalSun]

If the church can write the rules that will be bound in heaven; why are there so many ways to fall short and end up in hell? It is supposed to be so easy a child can understand. I’d like to meet the child that can understand the entire catechism.

To clarify it seems the early church just needed Jesus and to follow his rules. Now you have to believe in the saints, Mary, Trinity, abstain, go to mass, etc. etc. etc.

If the church dropped all of the trappings and went back to a basic worship in Jesus it would be easier for many to enter heaven.

just my nickles worth

So the fact that “nothing unclean shall enter heaven” tells me you must be 100% clean then! You have not sinned since you were baptized.

Also where in the bible does it say that all we need to is worship Jesus to get to heaven?