S
StAnastasia
Guest
I still want to know how they navigated to Australia before the flood killed all the marsupials…
Does the Catholic Church recognize the story of Noah and the flood as being literally true?
- Status
I
itinerant1
Guest
We now know the Ark was equipped with GPS and other state of the art navigational equipment, plus an extensive series of 350 HP outboard engines.
It’s not so far fetched of an idea when you realize God can do anything He wants. Who are we to say otherwise?
C
CWBetts
Guest
No but apparently you do! You obviously feel you can discern that God wants us to do something by doing it differently than He did it?? I’m confused. There is no precedent in Scripture or Tradition, and the matter is closed, according to the Venerable Pope John Paul II.
I
itinerant1
Guest
Actually, by the description of the Ark that we have in Genesis, it is not even a boat or a ship. It is a giant box (reminiscent of the cube in Gilgamesh), and most assuredly not a seaworthy vessel. Just the structure of the Ark itself is a good clue to the literary genre of the story.
D
donsnow
Guest
Hi, StAnastasia -
Again
OK, it’s been so long since I read it, I have two different stories mixed up. The father and son, Fernand and Raphael Navarra, revisited Mt Ararat, and went to where the father had on an earlier trip, seen what looked like wooden beams in the ice. The return trip was not in the early 20th century, but in 1955, with no month nor day of that year given. On the return trip, Fernand found the same place, with his son along, that time. He saw streaks of dust inside the glacier, which had several crevasses, and his heart fell. Raphael encouraged him to climb down a crevasse and cut into the dust patterns. He did. Beneath the dust, he found large wooden beams. He cut off a 5’ length and divided that into threes, and put them into their backpacks.
They were met, unexpectedly, by Turkish soldiers at the base of the mountain, on the way back to Dogubayazit, the closest town to the mountain. The soldiers ordered the father and son to empty their backpacks. Among the wood and supplies were cameras, which they weren’t supposed to have in that area. However, taking the soldiers’ pictures eased that situation, and he passed off the divided beam as firewood.
He went on, rejoined his wife and two other sons at the town, and left the area.
On his way back to France, he stopped by Cairo, Egypt in the Cairo Museum, Archaeological Section. He asked for an estimate of the wood’s age, and was told 5,000 to 6,000 years old. Then, he went to the Egyptian Ministry of Agriculture for another estimate; there, he was told the wood dated from 5,000 BC.
After he left Egypt, he found access to carbon dating. The University of Madrid dated the wood at 4,000yo and the University in Bordeaux gave the age at 5,000yo. He then went to USofA, and the University of California found the beams 1,250yo and the University of Pennsylvania dated the wood from A.D. 560.
Now, the story I got mixed up with the father and son, dates from 1883. Apologies for my memory; the early 20th century was made by Russian pilots overflying Mt Ararat in 1916.
Back to the men who went inside the Ark. (Not the father and son, more apologies). In 1883, there was an earthquake and Turkish Commissioners and a British Embassy attache went up the mountain, to assess damage to local villages. On the mountain, they came across a huge, wooden boatlike structure. “The end of it emerged from the bottom of a glacier”. The Commissioners estimated the height at 50’ and the length at 300 cubits. They were able to go inside and explored three large compartments. However, the rest of the interior was full of ice. They decided to leave, before the glacier caused a collapse upon them in the ship.
So, I’m not saying these anecdotes prove anything. But, they are the basis for my thinking that there’s something like an Ark on that mountain.
Don
Again
OK, it’s been so long since I read it, I have two different stories mixed up. The father and son, Fernand and Raphael Navarra, revisited Mt Ararat, and went to where the father had on an earlier trip, seen what looked like wooden beams in the ice. The return trip was not in the early 20th century, but in 1955, with no month nor day of that year given. On the return trip, Fernand found the same place, with his son along, that time. He saw streaks of dust inside the glacier, which had several crevasses, and his heart fell. Raphael encouraged him to climb down a crevasse and cut into the dust patterns. He did. Beneath the dust, he found large wooden beams. He cut off a 5’ length and divided that into threes, and put them into their backpacks.
They were met, unexpectedly, by Turkish soldiers at the base of the mountain, on the way back to Dogubayazit, the closest town to the mountain. The soldiers ordered the father and son to empty their backpacks. Among the wood and supplies were cameras, which they weren’t supposed to have in that area. However, taking the soldiers’ pictures eased that situation, and he passed off the divided beam as firewood.
He went on, rejoined his wife and two other sons at the town, and left the area.
On his way back to France, he stopped by Cairo, Egypt in the Cairo Museum, Archaeological Section. He asked for an estimate of the wood’s age, and was told 5,000 to 6,000 years old. Then, he went to the Egyptian Ministry of Agriculture for another estimate; there, he was told the wood dated from 5,000 BC.
After he left Egypt, he found access to carbon dating. The University of Madrid dated the wood at 4,000yo and the University in Bordeaux gave the age at 5,000yo. He then went to USofA, and the University of California found the beams 1,250yo and the University of Pennsylvania dated the wood from A.D. 560.
Now, the story I got mixed up with the father and son, dates from 1883. Apologies for my memory; the early 20th century was made by Russian pilots overflying Mt Ararat in 1916.
Back to the men who went inside the Ark. (Not the father and son, more apologies). In 1883, there was an earthquake and Turkish Commissioners and a British Embassy attache went up the mountain, to assess damage to local villages. On the mountain, they came across a huge, wooden boatlike structure. “The end of it emerged from the bottom of a glacier”. The Commissioners estimated the height at 50’ and the length at 300 cubits. They were able to go inside and explored three large compartments. However, the rest of the interior was full of ice. They decided to leave, before the glacier caused a collapse upon them in the ship.
So, I’m not saying these anecdotes prove anything. But, they are the basis for my thinking that there’s something like an Ark on that mountain.
Don
I
itinerant1
Guest
Have you read Women Priests and Other Fantasies by Vincent Miceli? It’s the one book by Fr. Miceli I have not read. I should get myself a copy.
C
CWBetts
Guest
I will read it when I graduate and have time to read what I want to read, and not what I have to read
I
itinerant1
Guest
If anyone finds an ancient boat it will not be the Ark because the Ark was not a boat or a ship.Hi, StAnastasia -
Again
OK, it’s been so long since I read it, I have two different stories mixed up. The father and son, Fernand and Raphael Navarra, revisited Mt Ararat, and went to where the father had on an earlier trip, seen what looked like wooden beams in the ice. The return trip was not in the early 20th century, but in 1955, with no month nor day of that year given. On the return trip, Fernand found the same place, with his son along, that time. He saw streaks of dust inside the glacier, which had several crevasses, and his heart fell. Raphael encouraged him to climb down a crevasse and cut into the dust patterns. He did. Beneath the dust, he found large wooden beams. He cut off a 5’ length and divided that into threes, and put them into their backpacks.
They were met, unexpectedly, by Turkish soldiers at the base of the mountain, on the way back to Dogubayazit, the closest town to the mountain. The soldiers ordered the father and son to empty their backpacks. Among the wood and supplies were cameras, which they weren’t supposed to have in that area. However, taking the soldiers’ pictures eased that situation, and he passed off the divided beam as firewood.
He went on, rejoined his wife and two other sons at the town, and left the area.
On his way back to France, he stopped by Cairo, Egypt in the Cairo Museum, Archaeological Section. He asked for an estimate of the wood’s age, and was told 5,000 to 6,000 years old. Then, he went to the Egyptian Ministry of Agriculture for another estimate; there, he was told the wood dated from 5,000 BC.
After he left Egypt, he found access to carbon dating. The University of Madrid dated the wood at 4,000yo and the University in Bordeaux gave the age at 5,000yo. He then went to USofA, and the University of California found the beams 1,250yo and the University of Pennsylvania dated the wood from A.D. 560.
Now, the story I got mixed up with the father and son, dates from 1883. Apologies for my memory; the early 20th century was made by Russian pilots overflying Mt Ararat in 1916.
Back to the men who went inside the Ark. (Not the father and son, more apologies). In 1883, there was an earthquake and Turkish Commissioners and a British Embassy attache went up the mountain, to assess damage to local villages. On the mountain, they came across a huge, wooden boatlike structure. “The end of it emerged from the bottom of a glacier”. The Commissioners estimated the height at 50’ and the length at 300 cubits. They were able to go inside and explored three large compartments. However, the rest of the interior was full of ice. They decided to leave, before the glacier caused a collapse upon them in the ship.
So, I’m not saying these anecdotes prove anything. But, they are the basis for my thinking that there’s something like an Ark on that mountain.
Don
D
donsnow
Guest
Hi, itinerant1
I’ve started considering the Ark as a huge barge, from its Biblical description.
And, you may be right. But, I sure hope they find the Ark.
You know, itinerant1, there may be more than one set of remains, on that mountain.
That would explain the different positions cited for the Ark. I also skimmed over a mention in Berlitz’ book, about a Middle Ages( eleventh or twelfth century) Shah who had lakes with pleasure boats around the mountain.Among the photos in his book (none of the Ark taken by airplanes
), Berlitz had two different rock formations. One, from a distance, could pass for a ship with a deck house. The other, taken up close, was a rock formation on a nearby mountain, that could pass for a fossilized hull’s top deck. He wanted to get ground radar, to see what was under the ground. In Gen 8, 4 the text has the Ark coming to rest on “…the mountains of Ararat.” The mountain we call Ararat is about the tallest in that general area.Anyway, I have no proof, just enough information to get my hopes up.
Enjoyed chatting.
Don
D
donsnow
Guest
News flash just in!!!
Igor Sutzrisky, a refugee from the country north of Turkey, reports finding a huge barge-like structure, in a glacier on Mt. Ararat, which he was climbing to escape patrols along the north border of Turkey.
He writes, “I entered the structure, and found the whole thing was a portal to another dimension. The interior had vast distances inside, going on and on for miles and miles. There were devices that lit and warmed the interior. I found over a dozen strange devices; they were domes on the floor, with gauges and levers on the top and a direction pointer. Exhausted, I lay down and fell asleep. In my sleep, I dreamed I saw people dressed like ancients, men and women, operating the domed devices. The dream showed me that those dome devices were transporter which could reach all over the Earth and bring the animals to inside the Ark.”
However, Turkey has banned and confisticated all his autobiographies, in which he recounts his adventures.
End of news flash!
Igor Sutzrisky, a refugee from the country north of Turkey, reports finding a huge barge-like structure, in a glacier on Mt. Ararat, which he was climbing to escape patrols along the north border of Turkey.
He writes, “I entered the structure, and found the whole thing was a portal to another dimension. The interior had vast distances inside, going on and on for miles and miles. There were devices that lit and warmed the interior. I found over a dozen strange devices; they were domes on the floor, with gauges and levers on the top and a direction pointer. Exhausted, I lay down and fell asleep. In my sleep, I dreamed I saw people dressed like ancients, men and women, operating the domed devices. The dream showed me that those dome devices were transporter
which could reach all over the Earth and bring the animals to inside the Ark.”However, Turkey has banned and confisticated all his autobiographies, in which he recounts his adventures.
End of news flash!
I
itinerant1
Guest
I understand what you are saying. The Ark described could be considered more like a giant barge as you suggested, but the given dimensions are symbolically significant (another clue to the literary genre). Furthermore, a heavy wooden barge of such dimensions, loaded with animals, could not survive a global inundation. One wonders whether it would even float.Hi, itinerant1
I’ve started considering the Ark as a huge barge, from its Biblical description.
And, you may be right. But, I sure hope they find the Ark.
You know, itinerant1, there may be more than one set of remains, on that mountain.
Among the photos in his book (none of the Ark taken by airplanes
Anyway, I have no proof, just enough information to get my hopes up.
Enjoyed chatting.
Don
I
itinerant1
Guest
In light of these recent developments, I must begin revising my method of interpreting the story of Noah. I hate it when that happens.News flash just in!!!
Igor Sutzrisky, a refugee from the country north of Turkey, reports finding a huge barge-like structure, in a glacier on Mt. Ararat, which he was climbing to escape patrols along the north border of Turkey.
He writes, “I entered the structure, and found the whole thing was a portal to another dimension. The interior had vast distances inside, going on and on for miles and miles. There were devices that lit and warmed the interior. I found over a dozen strange devices; they were domes on the floor, with gauges and levers on the top and a direction pointer. Exhausted, I lay down and fell asleep. In my sleep, I dreamed I saw people dressed like ancients, men and women, operating the domed devices. The dream showed me that those dome devices were transporter
However, Turkey has banned and confisticated all his autobiographies, in which he recounts his adventures.
End of news flash!
D
donsnow
Guest
Well, and I mention this seriously and in no way do I expect you to agree…but, it makes sense to me there could have been a guardian angel assigned to the barge, to keep it from capsizing. That’s the main concern I can see. I have no idea why it wouldn’t float.
A
adriancombe
Guest
I’ve only read the first paragraph and I already like it.
They threw JEPD at us at Steubenville one time only and it made me want to gag. I would be interested in hearing from any current students or recent alumni if it is still favorably mentioned there. I graduated in 93.
I
itinerant1
Guest
Maybe it would float, but I’m sure it was not a seaworthy box.
Make yourself a model ark to scale, guessing the relative weight of the materials, then get yourself one of those shrinking devices like the one used in “Honey, I Shrink the Kids,” go to the local zoo and shrink all the animals there, shrink a bunch of friends, too, and then put them all aboard the mini barge, and see how long it will float in a swimming pool.
Be sure to set up an Ark Cam so we can monitor the experiment. Make sure you have a rescue plan for your friends and the zoo animals in case the whole thing decides to take a dive. You will need to play the part of the guardian angel.
M
MonFrere
Guest
Sounds like the unverified sequel historians have been searching for decades to Jules Verne’s famous 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea — 20,000 Spans Above Sea Level.News flash just in!!!
Igor Sutzrisky, a refugee from the country north of Turkey, reports finding a huge barge-like structure, in a glacier on Mt. Ararat, which he was climbing to escape patrols along the north border of Turkey.
He writes, “I entered the structure, and found the whole thing was a portal to another dimension. The interior had vast distances inside, going on and on for miles and miles. There were devices that lit and warmed the interior. I found over a dozen strange devices; they were domes on the floor, with gauges and levers on the top and a direction pointer. Exhausted, I lay down and fell asleep. In my sleep, I dreamed I saw people dressed like ancients, men and women, operating the domed devices. The dream showed me that those dome devices were transporter
However, Turkey has banned and confisticated all his autobiographies, in which he recounts his adventures.
End of news flash!
MonFrere
J
juliamajor
Guest
Actually He did. Different rabbis had followers(a lot of them widows)_who would supply money. But that’s all.The idea of Jesus touching a woman or her touching Him would have been an anathema. So would talking to women.To this day Hasidim do not talk or touch females not related to them.That’s why the story of Jesus’ anointing by the woman was so a huge scandal. It horrified them on so many levels.She was a woman not of His family, a sinner and she might me menstruant! Jesus with Peter’s mother in law also a no no.That’s why some Jewish critics say Jesus wasn’t a Jew or those who wrote scripture did not understand Jewish society. I refer you to authors Pilch , Malina and Neyrey who have studied the socio-culture of "honor and shame"that existed in the past and still exists among the Muslims of the Mid East.That’s right, Jesus NEVER did ANYTHING that would upset the existing social order!!
If the ordiantion of women were to be acceptable, at least one would have been ordained.
Then the whole leper thing , touching a corpse of Jairus’ daughter all involved ritual uncleanliness which was and still is taken seriously in Judaism.
J
juliamajor
Guest
Oh, Lord.Charles Berlitz! Author of “Atlantis the Eighth Continent”,“Mysteries of Forgotten Worlds”,“Bermuda Triangle”, and with another author “The Philadelphia Experimentroject Invisibilty”.
roject Invisibilty”.
D
donsnow
Guest
More lessons like that, and my imagination will cooperate more with my trying to keep it within doctrinal bounds.
Seriously, I’ve been sitting here, trying to estimate the freeboard/draft of said Ark with a full load. I gave it a 30’ draft and wound up with the 15’ freeboard, which would make the Ark susceptible to becoming awash in hard seas. So, I see your point, from today’s understanding of ships’ characteristics.
I’m not going to cop out.
But, the stress…
I’m not going to cop out.
There’s a lot of pressure, man…
I’m not going to
Oh, furshlugginer
You know, that with God, all things are possible; that’s why I postulated the guardian angel, which is an established Catholic tradition.
Don
D
donsnow
Guest
Hi, juliamajor -Oh, Lord.Charles Berlitz! Author of “Atlantis the Eighth Continent”,“Mysteries of Forgotten Worlds”,“Bermuda Triangle”, and with another author “The Philadelphia Experiment
Yeah, that’s him. He’s the one.
Somebody needs to write about those things.
I haven’t read the one about Atlantis, that’s too far out, for me. But, I’ve read the others. I find them all thought provoking, even though they’re fringe material.
I think I also have Mysteries of Forgotten Worlds and The Philadelphia Experiment in the back room. I keep the books I read more often in the front of the house.
Now, you know my secret.
:blush:- Status