Does the Catholic Church recognize the story of Noah and the flood as being literally true?

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CWBetts said:
That is because men and women sat on opposite sides of the congregation. If a woman were to ask her husband a question, she would either have to get up and walk over to him, or she would have to yell out to him. This was merely to prevent chaos. Learn the cultural context.
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Why didn’t it say that men shouldn’t talk in the church either? It obviously is a passage about women being lower then men in the church.
 
prettylarge said:
Why didn’t it say that men shouldn’t talk in the church either? It obviously is a passage about women being lower then men in the church.
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I guess you can read that into it of you are a liberal feminist with an axe to grind
 
itinerant1 said:
To apply Newman’s insights described above regarding Divine Providence, we can say the meteorological event at Fatima was the work of God, Who “does but modify, quicken or direct the powers of nature.”
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I think the above quote of Newman in a very few words says what I’ve been trying to say in many posts on this thread. God works with nature - and may modify or quicken or direct it to His purposes - BUT He does not “ignore it” playing recklessly with it. As scripture say of creation - IT IS GOOD; this would certainly not only include the “physical stuff” we call matter; but would also include all the “laws” that hold things together. This working with nature is displayed in Fatima. And it is why something like a universal flood would NOT have occurred – because the operations of nature would have to be ignored or suspended. To put it in very crass terms - God is not only omnipotent He’s also smart!!

MonFrere
 
CWBetts said:
I guess you can read that into it of you are a liberal feminist with an axe to grind
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Read that into it? It says for women not to talk in church. Again, tell an objective person to read the passage that has no interest in the church one way or the other and see what they think…I guarantee the great majority of people would agree with me.
 
itinerant1 said:
This one is your Excedrin headache, to which I am about to add more pain.

God can do anything we say He can do, :rolleyes: including multiplying miracles unnecessarily to suit the gaps in our understanding.

Sure, you can posit a guardian angel, if that’s what floats your boat, but it would be theological cheating because the Bible makes no mention of an angel performing coast guard duties on the high seas.
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Good morning, itinerant1 -

Funny you should mention that. This morning, while I prepared my breakfast, I ruminated on the fact that the Biblical account didn’t mention a guardian angel.
Nevertheless, I do believe something kept that Ark afloat, during the heavy seas of the deluge.:cool:
 
MonFrere said:
I think the above quote of Newman in a very few words says what I’ve been trying to say in many posts on this thread. God works with nature - and may modify or quicken or direct it to His purposes - BUT He does not “ignore it” playing recklessly with it. As scripture say of creation - IT IS GOOD; this would certainly not only include the “physical stuff” we call matter; but would also include all the “laws” that hold things together. This working with nature is displayed in Fatima. And it is why something like a universal flood would NOT have occurred – because the operations of nature would have to be ignored or suspended. To put it in very crass terms - God is not only omnipotent He’s also smart!!

MonFrere
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To demonstrate this (a global flood and the ignoring of natural law) I give my version of a humble equivalent. Back in my days this was a “polish joke” but in these PC days I don’t know who to choose … but immediately after the U.S. had men set foot on the moon this one astronaut from Nation X said – That’s nuttin’ We’re planning a mission to the SUN!! You can’t go to the sun!! It’s much too hot. said a savvy reporter (probably from the NY Times - I forget the details) Don’t worry, my friend - said the astronaut – WE’RE GOING AT NIGHT!!

MonFrere
 
buffalo said:
I have an exercise. Can anyone write a novel as long as the OT and completely exclude history or scientific truths? None, not one bit! Let’s go for it.
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The last time I checked, I was a devote Catholic. I believe in Jesus Christ’s church with all my heart. The Catholic church began with the birth of Jesus and thus the New Testament.

I read the OT for Gods messages to man kind. To take it literally would in my opinion be a mistake, again just my opinion. But most people that lived in the OT times were illiterate and thus this information was passed orally for generations. Once people began to read and write, it was generally through their religious beliefs that things were written. An example, most young Jewish boys would learn to read the Torah first, and then discuss these readings with the religious scholars of the village. I believe this happened because these were one of the few written documents available to the Jewish people of that time.

Again, this is my opinion only, but to be able to pass things orally for generations and then write it accurately would be extremely difficult. Not to say they were not written with Gods guidance, But they were written by human beings.

Go with Gods Grace!
 
prettylarge said:
Is this verified?
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By who?

If you research it you will find original newspaper accounts and testimonies.

It is unlikely you will find someone who had a before and after checkup since many did not go there expecting to be healed.

Perhaps other posters have more information.

Here is one site with some original photos and documents. Also many accounts from journalists. In addition some accounts from miles away countering the “mass hallucination” claim.

and

Just when it seemed that the ball of fire would fall upon and destroy them,
the miracle ceased and the sun resumed its normal place in the sky,
shining forth as peacefully as ever. When the people arose from the
ground, cries of astonishment were heard on all sides. Their clothes, which
had been soaking wet and muddy, now were clean and dry. Many of the
sick and crippled had been cured of their afflictions. Our Lady of Fatima’s Peace Plan From Heaven, Tan Books and Publishers, Inc., 1983,
pp. 7-8.
 
steve711 said:
The last time I checked, I was a devote Catholic. I believe in Jesus Christ’s church with all my heart. The Catholic church began with the birth of Jesus and thus the New Testament.

I read the OT for Gods messages to man kind. To take it literally would in my opinion be a mistake, again just my opinion. But most people that lived in the OT times were illiterate and thus this information was passed orally for generations. Once people began to read and write, it was generally through their religious beliefs that things were written. An example, most young Jewish boys would learn to read the Torah first, and then discuss these readings with the religious scholars of the village. I believe this happened because these were one of the few written documents available to the Jewish people of that time.

Again, this is my opinion only, but to be able to pass things orally for generations and then write it accurately would be extremely difficult. Not to say they were not written with Gods guidance, But they were written by human beings.

Go with Gods Grace!
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Phrases, songs and chiastic structures were reliable means of transmission. I remember seeing research done and I was amazed at the accuracy.
 
prettylarge said:
You are asking us to DISPROVE a fantastic and unrealistic claim? OK, well you can’t disprove unicorns. They must exist too.
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Well, prettylarge -

You can’t prove that I don’t have an unicorn in my back yard :p.

Don
 
prettylarge said:
You are asking us to DISPROVE a fantastic and unrealistic claim? OK, well you can’t disprove unicorns. They must exist too.
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From what I understand, God does some pretty fantastic and unrealistic things from time to time
 
itinerant1 said:
If Noah Tried to Build an Ark Today…

The Lord speaks to Noah and says: “In one year, I am going to make it rain and cover the whole Earth with water until all is destroyed. But I want you to save the righteous people and two of every kind of living thing on the Earth. Therefore, I am commanding you to build an Ark.”

In a flash of lightning, God delivered the specifications for an Ark.

Fearful and trembling, Noah took the plans and agreed to build the Ark.

“Remember,” said the Lord, “You must complete the Ark and bring everything aboard in one year.”

Exactly one year later, a fierce storm cloud formed and all the seas of the earth went into a tumult. The Lord saw Noah sitting in his front yard weeping. “Noah.” He shouted, “Where is the Ark?”

“Lord, please forgive me!” cried Noah. "I did my best but there were big problems. First, I had to get a permit for construction and your plans did not comply with the codes. I had to hire an engineering firm and redraw the plans. Then I got into a fight with OSHA over whether or not the Ark needed a fire sprinkler system and floatation devices.

Then my neighbor objected, claiming I was violating zoning ordinances by building the Ark in my front yard, so I had to get a variance from the city planning commission.

I had problems getting enough wood for the Ark, because there was a ban on cutting trees to protect the Spotted Owl. I finally convinced the U.S. Forest Service that I needed the wood to save the owls.

However, the Fish and Wildlife Service won’t let me catch any owls. So, no owls.

The carpenters formed a union and went out on strike. I had to negotiate a settlement with the National Labor Union. Now I have 16 carpenters on the Ark, but still no owls.

When I started rounding up the other animals, I got sued by an animal rights group. They objected to me only taking two of each kind aboard.

Just when I got the suit dismissed, the EPA notified me that I could not complete the Ark without filing an environmental impact statement on your proposed flood. They didn’t take very kindly to the idea that they had no jurisdiction over the conduct of the Creator of the universe.

Then the Army Corps of Engineer demanded a map of the proposed new flood plain. I sent them a globe.

Right now, I am trying to resolve a complaint filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission that I am practicing discrimination by not taking godless, unbelieving people aboard!

The IRS has seized all my assets, claiming that I’m building the Ark in preparation to flee the country to avoid paying taxes.

I just got a notice from the State that I owe some kind of user tax and failed to register the Ark as a ‘recreational water craft.’

Finally the ACLU got the courts to issue an injunction against further construction of the Ark, saying that since God is flooding the earth, it is a religious event and therefore unconstitutional.

I really don’t think I can finish the Ark for another 5 or 6 years!" Noah wailed.

The sky began to clear, the sun began to shine and the seas began to calm. A rainbow arched across the sky.

Noah looked up hopefully. “You mean you are not going to destroy the Earth, Lord?”

“No,” said the Lord sadly. “The government already has!”
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Maybe, that’s why God promised no more floods…He knew what it would become like, after that one;)
 
StAnastasia said:
Hot dawg – I knew Noah used transporters – that’ the only way he could have gotten 60 million animals on board the ark. I’ll bet they were Star Fleet standard issue. I wonder if the pattern buffer malfunctioned just once, which would explain why the unicorns didn’t make it through.

StAnastasia
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Eureka! Yes, transporter buffer malfunction offed the unicorn. 😉 That must be the very reason. 😃

Now, if He’d just had His angels pick up distant animals and teleport them to the Ark…🤷

Don
 
donsnow said:
Eureka! Yes, transporter buffer malfunction offed the unicorn. 😉 That must be the very reason. 😃

Now, if He’d just had His angels pick up distant animals and teleport them to the Ark…🤷

Don
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That got me thinking! 😃 Padre Pio could bi-locate. Perhaps the animals were able to. Can we rule it out?
 
buffalo said:
That got me thinking! 😃 Padre Pio could bi-locate. Perhaps the animals were able to. Can we rule it out?
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Then why even build an ark in the first place? Teleport them to MotherShip until the danger has passed.

MF
 
buffalo said:
Phrases, songs and chiastic structures were reliable means of transmission. I remember seeing research done and I was amazed at the accuracy.
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Buffalo,

That is a good point and I have read those things also. I have also heard that there were many errors when the Bible is translated from the different languages, it appears only the Apostles were given the Gift of Tongues by the Holy Spirit and not the many holy people that translated the Bible.

Go with Gods Grace!👍
 
steve711 said:
Buffalo,

That is a good point and I have read those things also. I have also heard that there were many errors when the Bible is translated from the different languages, it appears only the Apostles were given the Gift of Tongues by the Holy Spirit and not the many holy people that translated the Bible.

Go with Gods Grace!👍
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Studies have been done on the accuracy of the Bible too. It is accurate beyond belief.
 
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