Does the Catholic concept of God devolve a lot of power away from him?

[Prodigal_Son1]

Why is that relevant?

I thought morals were unchanging. Is it your belief that morals change over time?

If they do change over time, there is a blatant problem with with using an interpretation of infallibility that implies irreformable that includes something that can by definition can change, as your are implying with morals.

You realize there was an old covenant and a new and everlasting covenant?

Now, morals don’t change, even though man’s view of morals has often become skewed.

Mat 5:38 You have heard that it hath been said: An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.
Mat 5:39 But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other:

Was that a change in moral teaching from Christ, or an explanation?

To go back to Old Testament times and compare it to the Church of the new and everlasting covenant is more than a stretch and irrelevant, in my honest opinion.

 

[someguy14]

One tenet in Christian theology is that God is omnipotent - that is, God is all-powerful.

Matthew 26:64

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said : nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

 

[Bezant]

One tenet in Christian theology is that God is omnipotent - that is, God is all-powerful. One would think that this would mean that the concept of God’s power is homogeneous in across virtually every Christian denomination, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

In Catholicism, God’s power seems to be by and large devolved. Saints are invoked regularly. Angels are said to watch over the faithful. Mary is said to be a dispenser of graces; she is co-mediatrix. It seems as if God doesn’t do very much but simply employs other people to do it. He’s like a CEO, but on a bigger scale. Some Catholics have gone on to say that if you don’t invoke the saints, Mary or your Guardian Angel, then you aren’t really Catholic. Of course, this is not Church teaching as far as I know, but I’m just stating that to put things into context about the “cultural pressure” of engaging in these devotions.

Contrast this with the view held in mainstream Protestantism. You do not resort to saints; they are dead. You do not call to angels; they don’t or can’t do very much. And you definitely don’t go to Mary. “Who is she?”…you don’t hear her mentioned even once in services. God does everything. If you need something, you go to God.

Would you say that the Catholic concept of God devolves a lot of power away from him? He doesn’t do much; he gets others to do it.

No, unless you assume God’s only way of doing something is through the prophets, Mary, the community’s intercession, etc.

God doesn’t need any of them to accomplish anything. But many of us need to connect to people to connect to him and make ourselves spiritually higher.

 

[Warrior1979]

That being said, your argument would make more sense if you simply compared the Canaanite issue with the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments prohibit murder; doesn’t that address your point more squarely?

So killing Canaanite babies isn’t murder?

The answer to your dilemma, of course, is that God made us, and He can do with us what He wants to.

True. Then if the Church reflects God’s will, then it must allow for the above. However, it clearly and absolutely does not.

 

[You]

So killing Canaanite babies isn’t murder?

True. Then if the Church reflects God’s will, then it must allow for the above. However, it clearly and absolutely does not.

There may come a time when a holy war is called for. But the history of the holy land has moved on now from conquering land to conquering hearts for the kingdom which is not in this world, so no more killing, thanks. Unless people attack, then defense is justified.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

There may come a time when a holy war is called for. But the history of the holy land has moved on now from conquering land to conquering hearts for the kingdom which is not in this world, so no more killing, thanks. Unless people attack, then defense is justified.

 

[tonyrey]

But God is not a human being. He is supernatural and has the right to do what He wishes with His creation.

Do you believe God has the right to torture and slaughter His children unnecessarily? If so might = right!

 

[Warrior1979]

There may come a time when a holy war is called for.

Well, we know definitively that it will not include what happened in the past, otherwise that event will occur as a clear and definitive contradiction with infallible dogma.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Well, we know definitively that it will not include what happened in the past, otherwise that event will occur as a clear and definitive contradiction with infallible dogma.

You just don’t get it, do you? The scenario predates the Church, and the very covenant, from where the infallible dogma came from. Prior to the promise of Christ, there was no infallible dogma.

 

[someguy14]

Jesus perfects us as we are God’s. God bless Moses.

 

[someguy14]

I hear you brother, May God bless

 

[someguy14]

You are all welcome, don’t be afraid. Let us Praise GOD together. God bless.

 

[Warrior1979]

You just don’t get it, do you? The scenario predates the Church, and the very covenant, from where the infallible dogma came from. Prior to the promise of Christ, there was no infallible dogma.

I see…so what is currently infallible has not been true and consistent for all time.

Very interesting…

 

[You]

I see…so what is currently infallible has not been true and consistent for all time.

Very interesting…

The founder of Christianity explicitly taught that to love God and to love neighbour was to satisfy the law and the prophets. So yes, it is consistent through time.

 

[Dymphna82]

In my view, the Protestants devolve a lot of power away from Christ.

Why? Because as soon as anyone disagrees with their Church’s interpretation of the Bible, a new denomination is made. All this does is lead Christians into confusion. It is also why when returning to Christ, I chose the Catholic church. After 13+ years of being a witch, being in groups where everyone follows a very loosely written moral code where no two people have the exact same view or even the same gods, I greatly appreciate the Catholic church. Every church has the same mass, everyday. Every church goes by the same Biblical interpretation. Every church follows the outlines ordered by the Vatican.

Rather than be part of a church that was built yesterday, I get to follow the church that was built by Jesus Christ, whose methods have worked ever since.

I don’t need to justify Mary and the Saints to anyone. I know that I’m praying to God and my prayers work. Maybe, just maybe, with all the sinners taking God’s name in vain for every little thing, maybe he would like his mum to sort through his messages.

 

[Dymphna82]

Do you believe God has the right to torture and slaughter His children unnecessarily? If so might = right!

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 55:6-11[/BIBLEDRB]

It’s not my job to determine God’s rights. It would be arrogant to assume otherwise.

 

[Warrior1979]

The founder of Christianity explicitly taught that to love God and to love neighbour was to satisfy the law and the prophets. So yes, it is consistent through time.

I don’t quite understand how this justifies the slaughter of Canaanite babies. In fact, this statement indicates it wasn’t justified.

 

[Warrior1979]

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 55:6-11[/BIBLEDRB]

It’s not my job to determine God’s rights. It would be arrogant to assume otherwise.

There is a difference between attempting to understand something and believing something. People like me simply seek to understand. I see a conflict between various Canaan laws and historical events. Others don’t, but neither can they explain this issue in any coherent and consistent manner.

 

[You]

I don’t quite understand how this justifies the slaughter of Canaanite babies. In fact, this statement indicates it wasn’t justified.

I think I’d rather have God kill me than have Stalin kill me. At least I’d feel it was probably my time to die.
Obviously you and I remain alive only as long as He wishes us to remain alive. The prohibition against killing is a prohibition against murder i.e. killing a person intentionally and before their time. Why would you try to justify the slaughter of Canaanite babies, their Creator called them back to him, their time was up. There are much worse things than death, in fact, death is something we all share in common. When our alloted span of life is filled He will remove our life from us all, or in your parlance, He will slaughter us.

 

[Warrior1979]

I think I’d rather have God kill me than have Stalin kill me.

You’re starting to see my point. There is a difference between God killing and Stalin killing.

In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, God issued and carried out judgment directly. In the case of the Canaanites, God may have ordered it, but man carried it out.

Could this event happen today and receive the Church’s stamp of approval? I don’t see how, as this type of slaughter, notably against children, is prohibited in every way, shape, and form. In the context of the OP, how is this not devolving God’s power.

BTW, how do we know that Stalin’s killing wasn’t part of God’s plan? My answer: We don’t know.

Obviously you and I remain alive only as long as He wishes us to remain alive. The prohibition against killing is a prohibition against murder i.e. killing a person intentionally and before their time. Why would you try to justify the slaughter of Canaanite babies, their Creator called them back to him, their time was up. There are much worse things than death, in fact, death is something we all share in common. When our alloted span of life is filled He will remove our life from us all, or in your parlance, He will slaughter us.

Your missing my point, and the point of the OP. Explain to me what the criteria is for justifying the slaughter of young children and babies in context of Church law. All I can find is absolute prohibitions. It is obviously allowed in certain circumstances if the Bible is to be believed, yet the Church outright prohibits it.

I suspect a lot of people don’t see the conflict because they don’t want to see it. Once people stop seeing these types of things, their search for the Truth stops also.