Does the CCC say that ecumenism is

  • Thread starter Thread starter 7rosario
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
7

7rosario

Guest
Someone I know claimed that the CCC says that “if one didn’t have dialogues with non-Catholics without the intention of converting them, it would be just gongs and symbals.”

Is this true?
I find this hard to believe.
 
So in other words someone is claiming that dialogue with separated Christians that are actually aimed at authentic unity is “gongs and cymbals.”

While it is true that one aspect of ecumenism is working together to common ends–such as defending the natural law in the public sphere, for example, the end goal is authentic unity.

Here is the Catechism section on ecumenism:

**Toward unity **
**820 **"Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time."277 Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me."278 The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.279
**821 **Certain things are required in order to respond adequately to this call:
  • a permanent *renewal *of the Church in greater fidelity to her vocation; such renewal is the driving-force of the movement toward unity;280
  • conversion of heart as the faithful “try to live holier lives according to the Gospel”;281 for it is the unfaithfulness of the members to Christ’s gift which causes divisions;
  • prayer in common, because “change of heart and holiness of life, along with public and private prayer for the unity of Christians, should be regarded as the soul of the whole ecumenical movement, and merits the name 'spiritual ecumenism;”'282
    -* fraternal knowledge of each other*;283
  • ecumenical formation of the faithful and especially of priests;284
  • *dialogue *among theologians and meetings among Christians of the different churches and communities;285 - *collaboration *among Christians in various areas of service to mankind.286 “Human service” is the idiomatic phrase.
It also bears pointing out that individual rather than corporate reconcilliations are not really considered ecumenism (from Vatican II’s decree on ecumenism):

However, it is evident that, when individuals wish for full Catholic communion, their preparation and reconciliation is an undertaking which of its nature is distinct from ecumenical action. But there is no opposition between the two, since both proceed from the marvelous ways of God.
 
7rosario said:
Someone I know claimed that the CCC says that “if one didn’t have dialogues with non-Catholics without the intention of converting them, it would be just gongs and symbals.”

Is this true?
I find this hard to believe.
Click to expand...
Let me change this: “if one had dialogues with non-Catholics without the intention of converting them, it would be just talking like gongs and cymbals.”
 
The whole point of it is to gather all that call upon Christ into the unity of faith. If that is not the end goal, it is not ecumenism. The immediate objective may be to find common ground, establish mutual trust, etc. but ultimately the bridge once built must be crossed.

I think the CCC, makes that clear–I know the decree on ecumenism from Vatican II and John Paul II’s encyclical on the subject definitely do.

This instruction from the CDF will also be helpful (especially the section relating to ecumenism).
 
Cardinal Walter Kasper: “… today we no longer understand ecumenism in the
sense of a return, by which the others would ‘be converted’ and return to being
Catholics. This was expressly abandoned by Vatican II.” (Adista, Feb. 26, 2001)

Benedict XVI, Theological Highlights of Vatican II, 1966, pages 61, 68:
The [Roman] Catholic has to recognize that his own Church is not yet prepared to accept the phenomenon of multiplicity in unity; he must orient himself toward this reality …. Meantime the [Roman] Catholic Church has no right to absorb the other Churches… A basic unity—of Churches that remain Churches, yet become one Church—must replace the idea of conversion, even though conversion retains its meaningfulness for those in conscience motivated to seek it. [It seem he is saying: "We are not trying to proselytize and would rather have a unity without unity in doctrine, but if they want to become Catholic, then let them be.]
 
7rosario said:
Cardinal Walter Kasper: “… today we no longer understand ecumenism in the
sense of a return, by which the others would ‘be converted’ and return to being
Catholics. This was expressly abandoned by Vatican II.” (Adista, Feb. 26, 2001)

Benedict XVI, Theological Highlights of Vatican II, 1966, pages 61, 68:
The [Roman] Catholic has to recognize that his own Church is not yet prepared to accept the phenomenon of multiplicity in unity; he must orient himself toward this reality …. Meantime the [Roman] Catholic Church has no right to absorb the other Churches… A basic unity—of Churches that remain Churches, yet become one Church—must replace the idea of conversion, even though conversion retains its meaningfulness for those in conscience motivated to seek it. [It seem he is saying: "We are not trying to** proselytize
Click to expand...
and would rather have a unity without unity in doctrine, but if they want to become Catholic, then let them be.]

That word is the key. There is a difference between ecumenism and proselytization. What we are not supposed to do is to try force people to convert. Ecumenism is not about forcing people to convert whereas proselytization is.
 
Proselytism is not forcing people to convert. You can’t really force anybody to convert anyway.

Proselytism is attempting to convert people.
 
7rosario said:
Proselytism is not forcing people to convert. You can’t really force anybody to convert anyway.

Proselytism is attempting to convert people.
Click to expand...
Proselytism IS forcing people to convert.
That’s what Muslims do to non muslims in muslim countries. They force them to convert.
That’s what Hindus are currently doing in India. Christians are being forced to convert in public upon pain of death if they don’t.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top