Does the Chaldean Church lack much tradition?

[chaldobyzantine]

As a Chaldean, I honestly don’t know if the Chaldean Catholic Church and the Assyrian Church of the East has many traditions that are unique. Of course there is the Holy Qurbana (Divine Liturgy) according to Saints Addai and Mari, but besides that I do not know of anything that is traditional that is prayed in the CCC or the ACoE.

I do know the Church of the East has no iconography, therefore when the Chaldeans joined the Catholic Church, both western and eastern iconography were embraced to fill the void. What we always tend to have is a large cross/crucifix is always behind the altar, which is behind a veil, though I’m uncertain of any other unique furnishings in the church.

What I also don’t know of is if the Church of the East has prayers unique similar to Vespers, Matins, Hours, etc. In the Chaldean Catholic Church, Latin Catholicism is practiced more than anything with the stations of the cross, the rosary, novenas, indulgences, sacred heart devotions, etc. Even how the Holy Qurbana is changed to match Roman Catholic practices such as Versus Populum every time, the Filioque, generic songs with obnoxious instruments, has caused me to think maybe there might have been a void somewhere in the Assyrian Church at the time we separated/reunited, and all we ever celebrated was the Holy Qurbana.

All this questioning and frustration probably comes from my embracing the Byzantine traditions, and looking at Oriental rites wondering how they all have such unique services, prayers, and practices and it seems like all we have is the Holy Qurbana.

Can anyone who knows of unique Assyrian or Chaldean services, prayers, practices, or traditions help me? Because they just don’t seem to occur at my local eparchy.

Thank you & God Bless

 

[ConstantineTG]

There is an Assyrian Church of the East Holy Qurbana video on oltv.tv. Maybe you can compare your Holy Qurbana with theirs. Your description matches the Holy Qurbana I have attended here in our area. But it can’t be helped that the parish is Latinized because they share a church building with a RC parish. The music there was distinctively Middle Eastern, but I couldn’t understand a word nor can I say if its traditional or not.

 

[chaldobyzantine]

I think we live in the same area ConstantineTG. I have compared both the Assyrian and Chaldean Holy Qurbana multiple times. The differences are noticeable, but not too severe that people would be outraged if our holy traditions were restored. Though in my opinion, trumpets, wind chimes, and drums shouldn’t have a place in any church ever!

The CCC is heavily latinized but what I’d love to find is something else that our churches should be able to celebrate that isn’t Latin Catholic. If the Church of the East has anything, why haven’t we replaced the latin devotions and services with them yet, or become aware of them at all.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Sometimes I wonder if its the architecture of the parish that forces the priest to celebrate versus populum. I must admit that I don’t know much about the Chaldean Rite. I do love the sign of peace, its the most structured and deeply symbolic sign of peace I have seen. I wish every other Rite would adopt that.

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

I recently attended the consecration ceremony of Our Lady of Perpetual Help Chaldean Church in Orangevale. Really moving. The architecture looked legit. One large Crucifix over the altar. Very little in the way of iconography. Only a single large statute which granted I don’t blame since being part of the Catholic Faith, Chaldeans are perhaps left without an iconography or artwork style of their own and probably just transpose from other traditions having now accepted the 7th council.

 

[malphono]

What I also don’t know of is if the Church of the East has prayers unique similar to Vespers, Matins, Hours, etc.

Most definitely yes, although I don’t recall how it’s titled. (see below for a link)

In the Chaldean Catholic Church, Latin Catholicism is practiced more than anything with the stations of the cross, the rosary, novenas, indulgences, sacred heart devotions, etc.

This is also true of the Maronites and, to a lesser extent, of the Syriacs as well (including, to a degree, the SOC, and I’d be surprised if not the ACoE too). But one has to (a) keep in mind that these practices were (with the exception of indulgences) not exactly “imposed” but were, rather, adopted, and (b) notice the way the practices were adapted.

Even how the Holy Qurbana is changed to match Roman Catholic practices such as Versus Populum every time,

As part of the liturgical reform of a few years back, the Holy Synod, to its great credit, restored ad orientem celebration (along with the altar curtain ), although a number of bishops (including one in the US) have been obstructionist in implementing it. Not, however, the Diocese of St Peter in San Diego under Mar Sarhad.

For a taste of Sapra (Matins) and to see the Holy Qourbana done beautifully, try this link on Sunday morning at 11am Pacific Time: cwnet.com/kaldu/

As a general comment, have a look at kaldu.org/WeeklyNews.html. I’m sure Fr Andrew would be able to help answer your questions and concerns in greater detail.

 

[chaldobyzantine]

As part of the liturgical reform of a few years back, the Holy Synod, to its great credit, restored ad orientem celebration (along with the altar curtain ), although a number of bishops (including one in the US) have been obstructionist in implementing it. Not, however, the Diocese of St Peter in San Diego under Mar Sarhad.

For a taste of Sapra (Matins) and to see the Holy Qourbana done beautifully, try this link on Sunday morning at 11am Pacific Time: cwnet.com/kaldu/

I have never seen or attended a Sapra service before, (much less be aware of it) though I’d love to someday. My local parishes don’t seem to do the Sapra, but pray the rosary and the litany of Loreto before the Holy Qurbana. The only thing that resembles Vespers in the Chaldean church is called Ramsha, which seems to be done only on Holidays.

I have frequently visited the San Diego Diocese websites and I do see some progress thanks to Bishop Sarhad (who baptized & chrismated me 21 years ago ). The temple veil has been restored, and the liturgy that was promulgated a few years ago that is closer to its original form is being used there as well. That is more than I can say for my local eparchy without expressing my frustrations.

Yet it seems like it still isn’t enough. Even in the new Orangedale parish, the photos show the Latin devotions of the Stations of the Cross, and the Sacred Heart. I guess my frustrations are like everyone else on this subforum that latinizations are still alive and well.

The Syriac Catholics and Maronites who also adopted Latin practices, they come from the Syriac Orthodox Church that does have its own services, prayers, and practices and they can restore their Holy Traditions. This all might be because of my love of Byzantine services and prayers like akathists, complines, paraklesis, panakhidas, that I’m wondering if the Assyrian Church of the East has something that the Chaldean Church is missing or simply just not using.