Does the Church even want me?

[gypsierose]

Recently, I have felt a deep calling within me to return to the Catholic Church. It feels like mystery, or magic, or at least inexplicable. I grew up in the Church until I was 6, when my mother stopped going feeling a dislike for the politics. This is a struggle that carries on within me and yet, I know that returning is what I must do and I am beginning RCIA classes this month.

I’ve spent most of my adult life as a bra burning feminist atheist. Literally most of my friends are homosexuals, and I consider them beautiful people.

I am beginning to understand Church teaching about chastity and sexuality, and I am not against it. We live in an oversexed world steeped in confusion and distraction. Clearly that is true. What I don’t understand is why The Church would want to influence civil definitions of marriage, and why the church seems to single out homosexuals for discrimination in this matter. Civil marriage is a mess and has been for a long time. As far as the state is concerned, marriage is a financial matter. Where I live, almost half of all children live with single mothers. Surely we can not discriminate against only homosexual unions without looking at the whole picture, which is why the Church should hold up the standard for marriage, but I can’t see how lobbying for change in civil marriage laws helps anybody. I’m hearing Catholics say it is a duty to oppose same sex marriage laws, and I just can’t wrap my brain around that. I actually can’t understand why the Church would get involved with politics at all, unless they are advocating for the poor and for life.

I guess what I’m trying to say is I have a problem discriminating against or judging people I’ve grown to love and honor. I could not go out into the world or into a voting booth and fight against them.

I feel the same way about abortion. I have come around to understanding that it is wrong, but I have difficulty believing that legislating and criminalizing that wrong makes sense. That does not seem me to be a merciful stance. Surely there is a better way to prevent abortion.

I am happily married to another lapsed Catholic, and he is supportive of my conversion, if a bit confused (he files this under “wifely eccentricities”). He wants nothing to do with the church and refuses to have our marriage validated by the church. We have no children and can not have children. I am living in sin too, and hope to find answers as I move forward. I am open to the possibility that those answers will not include my own will, and might be difficult. But as strong as this calling is, I can’t imagine myself giving up the fundamental “live and let live” ideals I have, and I can’t imagine entering a voting booth with intent to make decisions for others.

I am just venting and I know I’m not the only one struggling with these issues. I am, however, curious how people reconcile with the Church. Thanks for reading and sharing.

 

[Bookcat]

I guess what I’m trying to say is I have a problem discriminating against or judging people I’ve grown to love and honor. I could not go out into the world or into a voting booth and fight against them.

Your right you should not discriminate against them (hey your a practicing homosexual not going to sell food to you!) or judge them (your certainly going to hell!)

The difficulty there is that one needs to continue to work on the “renewal of your mind” (as St. Paul notes) with the Holy Spirit and letting go of mistaken notions. Something we all have had to do and continue to do.

Such is* not* in any way “discriminating against” nor is it it “judging” anyone.

Rather it is seeking the authentic good of society and their good really. It is an act of love.

We love greatly persons. Not their actions or choices that are not good for them or society.

To take a different example for illustration: if my friend is a drug addict - I must love* him*…now he will tell me that if I loved him I would give him money for drugs…well that i will not do for that is not loving him. But I still love him. I do not help him get his drugs and I try to get him into a rehab program…

I must love him in truth.

Granted this is a different kind of example but it is used to make clear the principles.

A great quote that I like and which I find very helpful is this:

"Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived.

Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality… In a culture without truth, this is the fatal risk facing love. It falls prey to contingent subjective emotions and opinions…"

~ Pope Benedict XVI Caritas in Veritate

Truth and love must go together. Truth with great love.​

Does the Church want you?

Yes of course. Jesus and his Church want you to have “true life”.

 

[Della]

Recently, I have felt a deep calling within me to return to the Catholic Church. It feels like mystery, or magic, or at least inexplicable. I grew up in the Church until I was 6, when my mother stopped going feeling a dislike for the politics. This is a struggle that carries on within me and yet, I know that returning is what I must do and I am beginning RCIA classes this month.

Welcome home to the Church and to CAF!

I’ve spent most of my adult life as a bra burning feminist atheist.

You sound typical for someone brought up in our secular society.

Literally most of my friends are homosexuals, and I consider them beautiful people.

All people are beautiful no matter their lifestyles. And we’re all poor sinners who have no right to boast before God or man.

I am beginning to understand Church teaching about chastity and sexuality, and I am not against it. We live in an oversexed world steeped in confusion and distraction. Clearly that is true. What I don’t understand is why The Church would want to influence civil definitions of marriage, and why the church seems to single out homosexuals for discrimination in this matter. Civil marriage is a mess and has been for a long time. As far as the state is concerned, marriage is a financial matter. Where I live, almost half of all children live with single mothers. Surely we can not discriminate against only homosexual unions without looking at the whole picture, which is why the Church should hold up the standard for marriage, but I can’t see how lobbying for change in civil marriage laws helps anybody. I’m hearing Catholics say it is a duty to oppose same sex marriage laws, and I just can’t wrap my brain around that. I actually can’t understand why the Church would get involved with politics at all, unless they are advocating for the poor and for life.

The Church fought a long, hard losing battle against the evils you describe, but the world thinks it knows better. In spite of the Church’s efforts laws are passed that allow men to run out on their wives and children and abandon their pregnant girlfriends. SS marriage is only a long line of abuses being sanctioned by the government in spite of the fact that it is clear that past sanctions on open marriage and divorce on demand with no consequences hasn’t worked.

I guess what I’m trying to say is I have a problem discriminating against or judging people I’ve grown to love and honor. I could not go out into the world or into a voting booth and fight against them.

Fighting against SS marriage is NOT fighting against those with SS attraction. Giving into people’s sinful desires is not love nor kindness–it’s pandering to a way of life that does not fulfill them nor add to their happiness or security of society at large.

I feel the same way about abortion. I have come around to understanding that it is wrong, but I have difficulty believing that legislating and criminalizing that wrong makes sense. That does not seem me to be a merciful stance. Surely there is a better way to prevent abortion.

Laws against wrongs are merciful–to those who suffer the most–the unborn children who, nine times out of ten, are destroyed simply because they are inconvenient. Better to teach young men and women to be responsbile and wait until marriage to have sex, but that’s taboo in our sex-soaked society, as well.

I am happily married to another lapsed Catholic, and he is supportive of my conversion, if a bit confused (he files this under “wifely eccentricities”). He wants nothing to do with the church and refuses to have our marriage validated by the church. We have no children and can not have children. I am living in sin too, and hope to find answers as I move forward. I am open to the possibility that those answers will not include my own will, and might be difficult. But as strong as this calling is, I can’t imagine myself giving up the fundamental “live and let live” ideals I have, and I can’t imagine entering a voting booth with intent to make decisions for others.

It’s good your dh is supportive even he’s puzzled. Maybe he’ll come around to seeing things as you do one day. By living in sin do you mean you were married outside the Church? That can be easily remedied. Talk to your priest about it.

As for “live and let live” there’s some truth in that. The Church has no power to make anyone do anything, and she doesn’t want to dictate to anyone what they should do. However, she has to teach the truth and propose it to the world as the best way to live and handle human problems. That’s her duty and obligation. If the Church won’t tell the truth, who will?

Again, no one in the Church has ever said that anyone should be shunned or targeted or treated with less dignity for any reason at all. It’s all there in the Catechism. You and your husband should read it so you’ll know what the Church actually teaches, not what her enemies say she does.

I am just venting and I know I’m not the only one struggling with these issues. I am, however, curious how people reconcile with the Church. Thanks for reading and sharing.

What I’ve written here isn’t definitative–it can’t be in 6000 words or less, but they might help you see that the Church’s position is one of love not just of “you can’t do that because we say so.”

 

[Bookcat]

Keep moving forward. Jesus loves you - and his Church loves you!

This is a great series catholicism.wordonfire.org/

You can even catch it on EWTN at times. Beautiful.

 

[gypsierose]

Welcome home to the Church and to CAF! ]

You sound typical for someone brought up in our secular society.

LOL- pretty much

All people are beautiful no matter their lifestyles. And we’re all poor sinners who have no right to boast before God or man.

The Church fought a long, hard losing battle against the evils you describe, but the world thinks it knows better. In spite of the Church’s efforts laws are passed that allow men to run out on their wives and children and abandon their pregnant girlfriends. SS marriage is only a long line of abuses being sanctioned by the government in spite of the fact that it is clear that past sanctions on open marriage and divorce on demand with no consequences hasn’t worked.

I agree that this is a problem

Fighting against SS marriage is NOT fighting against those with SS attraction. Giving into people’s sinful desires is not love nor kindness–it’s pandering to a way of life that does not fulfill them nor add to their happiness or security of society at large.

Homosexual couples do not want to hear that their lives are not fulfilling. If they feel they need each other, I have a hard time believing that they don’t, or that they’re wrong, because I don’t know their heart or needs.

Laws against wrongs are merciful–to those who suffer the most–the unborn children who, nine times out of ten, are destroyed simply because they are inconvenient. Better to teach young men and women to be responsbile and wait until marriage to have sex, but that’s taboo in our sex-soaked society, as well.

I hope and pray that there is still room to discuss waiting and the sacred nature of sex with young people, and I hope that there are people still doing that out there.

It’s good your dh is supportive even he’s puzzled. Maybe he’ll come around to seeing things as you do one day. By living in sin do you mean you were married outside the Church? That can be easily remedied. Talk to your priest about it.

I’m not sure how easy it will be to remedy if he won’t walk into a church at all. I’m taking this battle very, very slowly. With luck and prayer, hopefully he’ll eventually think it was his idea

As for “live and let live” there’s some truth in that. The Church has no power to make anyone do anything, and she doesn’t want to dictate to anyone what they should do. However, she has to teach the truth and propose it to the world as the best way to live and handle human problems. That’s her duty and obligation. If the Church won’t tell the truth, who will?

Again, no one in the Church has ever said that anyone should be shunned or targeted or treated with less dignity for any reason at all. It’s all there in the Catechism. You and your husband should read it so you’ll know what the Church actually teaches, not what her enemies say she does.

Thanks- I just got my copy of hte Catechism in the mail (its huge!) and am looking forward to receiving guidance in this journey. Thank you for praying for me.

What I’ve written here isn’t definitative–it can’t be in 6000 words or less, but they might help you see that the Church’s position is one of love not just of “you can’t do that because we say so.”

 

[gypsierose]

Your right you should not discriminate against them (hey your a practicing homosexual not going to sell food to you!) or judge them (your certainly going to hell!)

The difficulty there is that one needs to continue to work on the “renewal of your mind” (as St. Paul notes) with the Holy Spirit and letting go of mistaken notions. Something we all have had to do and continue to do.

Such is* not* in any way “discriminating against” nor is it it “judging” anyone.

Rather it is seeking the authentic good of society and their good really. It is an act of love.

We love greatly persons. Not their actions or choices that are not good for them or society.

To take a different example for illustration: if my friend is a drug addict - I must love* him*…now he will tell me that if I loved him I would give him money for drugs…well that i will not do for that is not loving him. But I still love him. I do not help him get his drugs and I try to get him into a rehab program…

I think the difficulty for me is in seeing homosexuality as a sin. Or at least, as any more of a sin than anything I do everyday. And while I’d never assist a drug addict, its hard for me not to be happy for my friends who have found love in one another. Whereas drug addiction destroys, I do not see homosexuality destroying the people I know. I see discrimination makes their lives harder, though.

I must love him in truth.

Granted this is a different kind of example but it is used to make clear the principles.

A great quote that I like and which I find very helpful is this:

"Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived.

Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality… In a culture without truth, this is the fatal risk facing love. It falls prey to contingent subjective emotions and opinions…"

~ Pope Benedict XVI Caritas in Veritate

Those are very wise words

Truth and love must go together. Truth with great love.​

Does the Church want you?

Yes of course. Jesus and his Church want you to have “true life”.

 

[pianistclare]

Hi Gypsy:
It is helpful if when you post, and quote the previous poster, that if you are replying to specific items, change the font color, or bold YOUR remarks so we can tell where you and the previous poster leave off.
It’s tricky posting in snippits…you may find this other method easier.

Welcome home.

 

[gypsierose]

Thanks, I see now what you’re talking about

 

[pianistclare]

Thanks, I see now what you’re talking about

Welcome to the forums. It took me a bit to get the hang of quoting.

 

[Regina7]

I understand where you are coming from. I was a very lapsed Catholic. It wasn’t until I had my first child that I truly came back to the Church. I did this because I, too, had serious reservations about raising my daughter Catholic. I’m an all-or-nothing person who does everything 100% or not at all. So I needed to come to terms with certain Church teachings in order to baptise my child.

So I started reading. A lot. What I learned astounded me. I thought I knew why the Church was against contraception, homosexuality, etc. I was so wrong. And once I started learning the real reasons on the Church’s positions…it all made sense.

So that’s what I recommend. Gus Llyod’s “A Minute in the Church” is a good intro to church teachings, but ultimately, it’s the Catechism that has extensive answers. Perhaps others on her have other book recommendations?

 

[Blue_Goose]

Welcome back! We are glad you are here.

I too was gone for a long time (50 years) but I made my way back and I am glad I did; it was the correct decision.

Peace be with you and enjoy the journey.

 

[808Catholic]

WELCOME HOME!

The Catholic church is filled with sinners; from top to bottom, we all sin. Your good friends who happen to be SSA are not that much different from anyone else you’d find in Mass on Sundays and I wouldn’t even suggest you exclude them from your life. Rather, be a beacon of love to them so they might find rest in God’s house as well.

Your confusion about why the Catholic church has become active in civil matters is understandable. Perhaps a slight change of perspective is in order: since when did the government deem themselves the arbiters of who can marry? While the secular world wishes separation of church and state, they seem to take the view that churches need to leave governance to elected officials. Do they ever stop to think that elected officials are interfering with religious issues and it’s the government that should get out of the business of the church? So, my contention, is that the government has infringed on church matters and this is the source of confusion.

On the topic of abortion, clearly an unborn child is a human like anyone else. Their state of life, unborn, is different but so are those who are paralyzed, mentally impaired, or connected to a life support machine. The church views all life during all stages of life and in every state to be sacred and precious to God.

Bless you for taking the steps to bring yourself closer to God. By your actions and examples, you can lead your husband and you can both make this magnificent journey that is God’s gift to all together.

 

[fred_conty]

I’m happy that you have decided to become new again and be one with Christ.

Once you are back into the presence of Christ, things will look different to you because of his light. His grace will give understanding and wisdom to the events around you, and truth is much more easily seen. Being away from Christ means the darkness has clouded the mind and we have a difficult time seeing and accepting truth, as well as applying truth.

First thing is to talk to your parish priest or some priest about your re-entry. He will do all he can to help you. And don’t assume anything until you talk with him. Sometimes others in their good will will mistakenly give you the wrong advice.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[Della]

gypsierose:

Homosexual couples do not want to hear that their lives are not fulfilling. If they feel they need each other, I have a hard time believing that they don’t, or that they’re wrong, because I don’t know their heart or needs.

Yes, no one who believes that the only thing that will make them happy is what the want to do instead of what they ought to do. That’s only human nature–fallen human nature. All of us have this idea to one degree or another. It’s why we struggle with doing what God wants. We think we can be/do what we think will make us happy.

Most people don’t sin in defiance of God but because they think that by doing what they are doing it will make them happy. And there is a certain amount of happiness in following our urges. Sex is natural and we naturally enjoy the physical aspects of it, whether it’s done in love or not. Still, that doesn’t make it right outside of marriage–one man and one woman.

The Church has long taught that the human condiiton is what it is because in the fall of man our nature became corrupted–not totally corrupted, but not the nature God originally intended us to have. Think of the natures of Jesus and Mary for comparison.

Our intellect became darkened. We can’t see that God’s ways are best without faith and his grace. God has given us his grace–a portion to everyone–which is why we have a deep-seated feeling that what we are doing is wrong even if intellectually we can tell ourselves it isn’t.

And the final thing that happened to humanity was a weakened will–so that even if we know to do the right thing, we oftentimes cannot will ourselves to do it.

We need to understand these things in order to understand why sin is sin, to recognize it as such, and to resist it. This is where the sacraments come in. Baptism removes the stain of original sin, but we still are wouunded by OS. The sacraments give us God’s grace so that we can know right from wrong, see why it is wrong, and do what is right even when we think we know better.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Welcome to CAF!

Of course the church wants you. But you can’t do it only on your terms. You have the right attitude in being open to the possibility that you don’t understand everything and that you could be wrong. I think this is the crucial thing at this stage. it is OK to question and be confused, as long as we have an open heart and an open mind.

I was a teenage convert from a non-religious background, and for many years after my reception I struggled how to reconcile the faith with secular ideologies. The issues such as SSM were not on the radar then (20 yrs ago in Eastern Europe), but I struggled primarily with the question of objective truth and authority. How can the church make certain claims about the truth? How can the secular society that raised me and taught me everything be wrong? I just couldn’t get over that hurdle.

What happened was that I prayed for understanding and inner peace. It didn’t happen over night, it took a few years for me to realise that God is unchanging and eternal and that my culture is just a transitory phase in history. It really came down to trusting God. I realised that if I believe the Bible and the church about what it says about God, then everything in life depends on this understanding of God, and everything must be understood in relation to Him. Not in relation to current secular trends. Because that is what they are. Trends that come and go.

I know I have not answered your questions about the current hot button topics and how to approach them specifically. A bigger principle is in question here: that you judge the world according to God, and not the other way around. You are still fresh in your reversion and it is very difficult to shed the secular mind-set. But please keep in mind that you are deeply entrenched in it and that it is now worth questioning the fundamentals of this world view.

Maybe this could inspire you to analyse it a bit and look behind the rhetoric: crisismagazine.com/2015/left-vs-human-nature

 

[tweedlealice]

Recently, I have felt a deep calling within me to return to the Catholic Church. It feels like mystery, or magic, or at least inexplicable. I grew up in the Church until I was 6, when my mother stopped going feeling a dislike for the politics. This is a struggle that carries on within me and yet, I know that returning is what I must do and I am beginning RCIA classes this month.

I’ve spent most of my adult life as a bra burning feminist atheist. Literally most of my friends are homosexuals, and I consider them beautiful people.

I am beginning to understand Church teaching about chastity and sexuality, and I am not against it. We live in an oversexed world steeped in confusion and distraction. Clearly that is true. What I don’t understand is why The Church would want to influence civil definitions of marriage, and why the church seems to single out homosexuals for discrimination in this matter. Civil marriage is a mess and has been for a long time. As far as the state is concerned, marriage is a financial matter. Where I live, almost half of all children live with single mothers. Surely we can not discriminate against only homosexual unions without looking at the whole picture, which is why the Church should hold up the standard for marriage, but I can’t see how lobbying for change in civil marriage laws helps anybody. I’m hearing Catholics say it is a duty to oppose same sex marriage laws, and I just can’t wrap my brain around that. I actually can’t understand why the Church would get involved with politics at all, unless they are advocating for the poor and for life.

I guess what I’m trying to say is I have a problem discriminating against or judging people I’ve grown to love and honor. I could not go out into the world or into a voting booth and fight against them.

I feel the same way about abortion. I have come around to understanding that it is wrong, but I have difficulty believing that legislating and criminalizing that wrong makes sense. That does not seem me to be a merciful stance. Surely there is a better way to prevent abortion.

I am happily married to another lapsed Catholic, and he is supportive of my conversion, if a bit confused (he files this under “wifely eccentricities”). He wants nothing to do with the church and refuses to have our marriage validated by the church. We have no children and can not have children. I am living in sin too, and hope to find answers as I move forward. I am open to the possibility that those answers will not include my own will, and might be difficult. But as strong as this calling is, I can’t imagine myself giving up the fundamental “live and let live” ideals I have, and I can’t imagine entering a voting booth with intent to make decisions for others.

I am just venting and I know I’m not the only one struggling with these issues. I am, however, curious how people reconcile with the Church. Thanks for reading and sharing.

Dear blessed child of God,
God said," Do not keep the little children from me. God loves all of us. He loves the sinner but not the sin. Then, you have to decide what is a sin. The Bible is a map that will lead us on our road to heaven. You have live in a carnal world where everything goes.
God is calling you strongly home and you will find rules. First, build on your love relationship w your best friend, Jesus. “Seek ye first the kingdom of God and everything else will come unto you.“Google scripture verse locations. When you are confronted w a rule that convicts you from the carnal world, think about it, pray about it and counsel w your priest about it. Save up a few. Homosexuals. My brother was bisexual. God loved him. I dragged him to church. In the later parts of his life before he hemmorhaged to death from alcoholism, he was celibate. I think he was repentant. Civil marriages are fine. My heterosexual daughter and husband got married at the courthouse. All rights are given to partners married in the courthouse and they can make it as pretty as they want. They shouldn’t get married in the church. You cant tear Sodom and Gommorah out of the Bible.As a nurse, there are consequences for anal sex which I won’t put here. So civil marriages protect their rights for insurance, wills, etc. Their are churches that will marry them in the states that allow that. God will deal w that in heaven. We are not spotless w homosexuality in the priesthood. They are to be celibate. Homosexuality is not pedicaphia but it can cross over and to me that means jail. You continue to love your friends. The church will not ask you to stop loving your friends and you need not reveal to them the teachings of the church which they know. Your comment can be,” God and the homosexual community will have to work that out. I needed to go back to church for me.”
Abortion used for birth control is ridiculous. In 1968, I was a student nurse. One could get abortions before Roe vs Wade. 3 doctors had to decide the Mom’s life was in danger and/or her psychological health was in danger. Of course, people w money abused the systerm. As far as health, there were C-sections-so you figure. With all the prevention available no one should get pregnant. " But i love you baby and I can’t wear those things."
No one cries for the unborn baby who has its own DNA. Its own heart rate at 4 weeks. There is still adoption… Life is precious and we should fight for it. Don’t get pregnant.
You should enjoy your classes and friendship w Jesus and your church and your old friends. God and the law will take care of legal matters. But rethink abortion. Push Preventionl
In Christs Name
tweedlealice. Welcome home.

 

[NovusFidem]

Heeey, welcome back! I am also a returning Catholic (cradle sheep, lost sheep, found sheep ), and I am still having trouble with all this Catholic life thing. I’m doing well with the “legal” and doctrinal teachings, but my shut-in/introvert personality is holding me from going out there and meeting people ._.

But, anyway, about marriage. I hope I will be able to help you! npatrol:

Imagine that marriage was created to protect the ‘family’ (as in, the parents and specially the kids). Laws were created to protect this small cell of society called Family.

We have laws that protect the kids from irresponsible parents (parents have a responsibility to feed, dress, educate and protect children). We also have laws that were created to protect the involved couple (man can’t simply leave wife with kids and nothing else).

Marriage was a contract created to protect the ‘common interest’ of a couple when man and woman decided to form a FAMILY (= have kids). It wasn’t because of affection that people got married, so much that most cultures had arranged marriages. Greek men in Ancient Greece held love only for other men (homosexuality was normal, accepted and expected back then), but still only MARRIED women (who they treated as mere ‘wombs’). People got married because of Kids. (and for other contracts, such as land, dowry… but I will be focusing on the family aspect of marriage)

Today, with divorce a common event, marriage already lost a bit of its significance. With divorce we are already hurting the kids, but society will lead you to believe that ‘their pain is not as great as the pain of the parents who live with someone they don’t “love”’ (“love” as in, affection).

While I’ll agree that in some cases divorce is needed (like domestic violence, or to protect the physical and mental health of the people involved, while guaranteeing the support family receives - alimony, etc), divorce has become so common that it is not a ‘last resort’ anymore, but just something people do in their lives. You know, date 7 years, engagement for 2-3, marriage for 3, divorce.

What it has to do with gay marriage?

You see, marriage already lost its meaning. We have divorce, we have children out of wedlock, we have abandoned children, we have aborted children. Marriage, whatever it is nowadays, is not about the children anymore. It is about getting together with someone you love, or getting some rights that only a spouse has (like hospital visitation).

No one here, I believe, is against gay persons having their right to visit someone in the hospital, or leaving their belongings to a special someone instead of an estranged family. We just don’t think you need to be MARRIED to have all this - give them their rights, but protect what Marriage should be about.

Marriage should still be pro-children, Family should be for children: to have children, to protect children, to raise children and to care for children.

Most religions, and the Catholic Church most of all, are fighting to protect something that has been proven to be healthy: mom and dad who got together because they have all the intention to have and care for their kids. When we fight for what marriage IS, we fight for responsible sex, we fight to make sure that children will only be born in a home with mom and dad*, that they will have the most basic right: to live in a loving home.

Allowing for gay marriage in cases of adoption, while a wonderful idea in part, would be the same as admitting that Marriage as a whole has failed already :doh2: (or else, there would be no children for adoption - they would have parents or, at least, grandparents or uncles to take care of them). Family, as a concept, is already battered and weak, its meaning lost and swapped with a version that says: “When two people love each other, they get married” (and yet, no one has married their own mother… well, except that Oedipus dude, but his story was a mess from the start )

Gay marriage would harm Marriage no more than divorce and casual sex already has. But still, any harm we can prevent is a great deal already.

I would like to recommend that you look into the blog askthebigot.com : the owner was raised by her two mothers (and loves both of them), but is still against gay marriage. Just, you know, to have an opinion better than mine

 

[NovusFidem]

I guess what I’m trying to say is I have a problem discriminating against or judging people I’ve grown to love and honor. I could not go out into the world or into a voting booth and fight against them.

I feel the same way about abortion. I have come around to understanding that it is wrong, but I have difficulty believing that legislating and criminalizing that wrong makes sense. That does not seem me to be a merciful stance. Surely there is a better way to prevent abortion.

I am just venting and I know I’m not the only one struggling with these issues. I am, however, curious how people reconcile with the Church. Thanks for reading and sharing.

Also! Noooo, you don’t have to discriminate There are many gay persons who are against gay marriage: because they understand what marriage is about. When we fight for marriage, we fight to protect family, not to hurt other people.

I mean. If you are allowed: to have sex with any other consenting adult, live in your house with said person, have this person by your side as if he/she were your spouse, have the rights to anything a heterosexual married couple has… why would they be hurt to be left-out of marriage? If they think marriage is important and they know what marriage is about, they should not mind not being allowed marriage to start with

I mean, it is like we are forbidding man from breastfeeding. Why would man feel left out, if they can’t breastfeed? - We fight to forbid man and man from getting a contract to become man and woman and have babies. Can you see the parallel? (because I can’t, I think I got lost in my own argument again… )

As for abortion, as I said… Family is already weak. Imagine if mom and dad were constantly present in the life of teenagers, do you think they would be engaging in unprotected sex? (or sex at all, if most dads are to go by )

Society has a tendency to ‘fix’ problems by creating more problems. Which is why we have abortion…