Does the Church have a deliberate PR problem?

[Lost_Wanderer]

I haven’t been on here for a while because of work and personal writing projects. However, the Pope’s recent announcement and the media’s reaction has compelled me to say this.

I’m sure at least half of you actually know what this thread’s title is talking about. Given this recent papal resignation and the continuing light of scandals, I find that people are only sidestepping when they say this is the fault of individuals and that the Church is still somehow intact.

Let’s not pull the wool over people’s eyes folks. It doesn’t matter if the theological/spiritual/whatever-you-call-the-non-human side of it is still somehow pure. The Church’s modern image is in shambles. And no, image is not something to downplay in a world where influence is a growing force. I find it counter-productive for our soon-to-be former Pope Benedict to encourage social media and other new forms of evangelization when the image, a driving factor of social influence, has taken such a beating over the last few decades.

I used to agree with the religious sentiment that reputation and public face are somehow indicators of pride. But on the contrary, I realize there was only one thing I couldn’t agree with it. It comes from the idea that image is something to actually live up to. It is not a facade. Why then do we continuously continue to shoot that image in the foot? Why do we continue to justify the anti-religious caricature of backwater thinking, self-righteousness, aversion to modern civilization, and above all, hypocrisy?

This question is especially directed towards our religious leaders. In my country, the whole issue of the RH bill has only gained greater force among my middle-class social circles.

The reason? Our bishops are bullishly incompetent with their public image. They care not for the things they say and at the same time, do not care that they are relying on influence that is absent.

This is not so much of a moral issue as it is an issue of proper influencing. Jesus didn’t care for how many people He angered when He preached. However, He was also wise enough to actually defend His image when His enemies were trying to trap him in debates. In fact, those enemies were also part of His image, a different category of his target audience (you can’t always preach to the choir). The image itself was flawless. There was no scandal to smear it. There was nothing hypocritical about the man’s personal life that could be brought against His own words.

The same case cannot be said of our priests and bishops.

So what do you think? Has the source of our influencing power has diminished? You don’t think we killed it? Shouldn’t we be a little less vocal and reactionary and more cautious with what we do to ‘defend’ or ‘share’ the faith?

 

[twoshoes]

I agree, we damage our credibilty when we are hypocritcal. Case in point is a church affiliated hospital used a civil law stating that a fetus had no rights until birth as a defense in a wrongful death suite. The Bishops of that state had to step in a correct the hospital. These attorney’s did great damage to the churches image. They represented the church as being hypocrircal on abortion. This is a case of we would have won the moral picture by using another defense. What really surprised me was the number of people who thought it was a good defense.

Hyprocacy is our greatest enemy in the war for Souls. Thank God the Bishops stepped in to minimize the damage. IThe damage will never be full corrected.

 

[georget]

Small and pure is ok. The apostles had an awful image, and they suffered for it, and the church grew. I’d rather be small and pure than big and false. You will never please the world till you become what they are or what they want you to be. Good priests bad priests, the truth is the truth, and it’s worth dying for, at least the savior thought so. Something else to consider why is it the focus is only on the bad priests when the when the overwhelming number of priests are good and loyal followers of our Lord.

Ps. no disrespect meant, I’m in a hurry to get to mass, and all day on the tube I have’nt heard the Holy Spirit mentioned, I 'm so tired of image, give me substance.
God bless

 

[Lochias]

We’re in the business of upholding and promoting the Truth, not catering to those with delicate sensitivities. Being Catholic has never been about being popular, and yet, we’ve got over a billion members.

Doesn’t seem like PR is much of a problem to me.

 

[mommy_k]

The problem does not lie within the church it lieds within the media.
The media spins things to make it more interesting. In the case of the Pope, he is just old. He is known as the scholarly pope and perhaps at the age of 86 the holy spirit guided him in his decision. You cannot expect the media to grasp this.
The media paints all catholics as homosexual haters. This is not true. We hate the sin the list goes on and on
We have to show by our actions and responses that they are in error. A PR firm would have the same issues with these things, and then Catholics would be accused of not being transparent and the media would find a problem with them too. We have God on our side and have survived as a church thru many other things…

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’d rather be small and pure than big and false.

But that’s actually the problem with the Church. We are already big. The matter of being true or false now hinges largely on our living up to that large image. Furthermore, you highlight also another problem. (Why this call to evangelize at all when you would rather cull your numbers to a persecuted minority again?)

Ps. no disrespect meant, I’m in a hurry to get to mass, and all day on the tube I have’nt heard the Holy Spirit mentioned, I 'm so tired of image, give me substance.

But that’s the thing about image! Why do you think corporations spend so much on marketing, advertising, and freak out over PR damage control?

Unfortunately, the Church’s leaders have been guilty of being the exact same way. We are making too much use of an image when we’re supposed to be fixing it first!

Being Catholic has never been about being popular, and yet, we’ve got over a billion members.

That is not what having an image is about either. Please read again.

The media paints all catholics as homosexual haters. This is not true. We hate the sin the list goes on and on

It’s saying things like that without reservation that give the media something to spin in the first place. That’s why I ask: Why we do we keep fuelling this fire?

We have to show by our actions and responses that they are in error. A PR firm would have the same issues with these things, and then Catholics would be accused of not being transparent and the media would find a problem with them too. We have God on our side and have survived as a church thru many other things…

Are we? Are we really proving them to be in error? Y’know we can’t keep piggy-backing on God’s back at the first sight of ‘persecution.’ Worse still, this is a persecution we brought upon ourselves. It is not the good kind. We have done so much wrong in the name of our religion, wrongs that do not line up with what we teach.

It’s time we stop fooling ourselves thinking we’re martyrs.

 

[Vouthon]

Lost Wanderer, brother/sister, is this really anything ‘new’?

Christ included among his Twelve Apostles Judas Iscariot, who stole from the early church’s common purse. The disciples appear to have had such a bag or purse in common, in which they put whatever money they gained. Judas was a thief and stole what was put into the bag. I think that’s pretty scandalous from an Apostle handpicked by Jesus.

How often the church had a terrible image in the past! Just look to the Avignon Papacy. The poet Petrarch called it, “The Babylon of the West…”

Here is how that great Italian humanist and poet described the popes during the so-called Avignon Papacy:

“…Now I am living in France, in the Babylon of the West . . . Here reign the successors of the poor fishermen of Galilee; they have strangely forgotten their origin. I am astounded, as I recall their predecessors, to see these men loaded with gold and clad in purple, boasting of the spoils of princes and nations; to see luxurious palaces and heights crowned with fortifications, instead of a boat turned downward for shelter…”

Do you reckon that’s “good” PR?

In fact the Avignon papacy discredited the church in the eyes of many Europeans in the century prior to the reformation. The very idea that the Vicar of Christ could be exiled from the Eternal City and become controlled by secular kings was devastating to its image. The church survived though, lived to rectify the errors and later on thrived - spreading to new lands and becoming the world’s largest religion.

We can do it again.

The church is continually in need of renewal because it is comprised of imperfect members.

“…Throughout the ages the Church has kept safe and handed on the doctrine received from the Master and from the apostles. In the life of the People of God, as it has made its pilgrim way through the vicissitudes of human history, there has at times appeared a way of acting that was hardly in accord with the spirit of the Gospel or even opposed to it…”

***- DIGNITATIS HUMANAE (Vatican II Declaration), 1965 ***

Likewise in the Vatican II document “Unitatis Redintegratio” promulgated in 1965 we read:

"…The primary duty [of Catholics] is to make a careful and honest appraisal of whatever needs to be done or renewed in the Catholic household itself, in order that its life may bear witness more clearly and faithfully to the teachings and institutions which have come to it from Christ through the Apostles.

For although the Catholic Church has been endowed with all divinely revealed truth and with all means of grace, yet its members fail to live by them with all the fervor that they should, so that the radiance of the Church’s image is less clear in the eyes of our separated brethren and of the world at large, and the growth of God’s kingdom is delayed. All Catholics must therefore aim at Christian perfection(24) and, each according to his station, play his part that the Church may daily be more purified and renewed…

Every renewal of the Church is essentially grounded in an increase of fidelity to her own calling. Undoubtedly this is the basis of the movement toward unity.

Christ summons the Church to continual reformation as she sojourns here on earth. The Church is always in need of this, in so far as she is an institution of men here on earth. Thus if, in various times and circumstances, there have been deficiencies in moral conduct or in church discipline, or even in the way that church teaching has been formulated-to be carefully distinguished from the deposit of faith itself-these can and should be set right at the opportune moment…"

***- Unitatis Redintegratio (Vatican II Decree), 1965 ***

 

[Soler]

In the 1960s, the Church embarked on a massive PR campaign, known to history as the Second Vatican Council. It doesn’t seem to have done much good.

If Church leaders place too great an emphasis on framing the Faith in a way pleasing to the modern mind, it is likely that the people will end up with a faith stripped of Catholic sensibilities and even ultimately of essential Catholic teachings.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Who is your audience? PR to whom exactly?

The faithful Caholic who trusts the church? The lapsed catholic who does his own thing anyway? The angry secularist who hates the church and who will never be satisfied with stuff that comes out of it, despite the best PR? The average whateverist/secularist who just doesn’t care?

The church doesn’t need better PR. It needs integrity and holiness. If it has that other things are irrelevant. People will see its light and wonder, they will be attracted to it, or at least will respect it. We should strive to be holy and pray that our church leaders are too. I don’t think there is any other way and PR has nothing to do with that.

 

[twoshoes]

In the 1960s, the Church embarked on a massive PR campaign, known to history as the Second Vatican Council. It doesn’t seem to have done much good.

If Church leaders place too great an emphasis on framing the Faith in a way pleasing to the modern mind, it is likely that the people will end up with a faith stripped of Catholic sensibilities and even ultimately of essential Catholic teachings.

I think it’s not about framing the faith so much as living the faith,. Imitating Jesus in public is the best example of Faith.

 

[twoshoes]

The problem does not lie within the church it lieds within the media.
The media spins things to make it more interesting. In the case of the Pope, he is just old. He is known as the scholarly pope and perhaps at the age of 86 the holy spirit guided him in his decision. You cannot expect the media to grasp this.
The media paints all catholics as homosexual haters. This is not true. We hate the sin the list goes on and on
We have to show by our actions and responses that they are in error. A PR firm would have the same issues with these things, and then Catholics would be accused of not being transparent and the media would find a problem with them too. We have God on our side and have survived as a church thru many other things…

The church can only control it’s own actions, never will it be able to control a secular world take on us. The reason the church has surived and has grown for 2 thosand years is the adherence to the word of God, and the Holy Spirit. When we say one thing and do another we are hypocritical and it is jumped on by a society that does not know Jesus.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

The church doesn’t need better PR. It needs integrity and holiness. If it has that other things are irrelevant. People will see its light and wonder, they will be attracted to it, or at least will respect it. We should strive to be holy and pray that our church leaders are too. I don’t think there is any other way and PR has nothing to do with that.

Oh but it does! Again, if you have an image, a reputation, you live up to it. You want integrity? It’s synonymous in that sense. If you want to build an image of holiness, it must be reflected in your actions.

And on the subject of targeting, there’s a reason why I put this under evangelization. On the outside, I see so many religious leaders doing the social equivalent of suicide bombing: shaming themselves in public and earning the ire of the secular mob.

You call that evangelizing? No, that’s confrontational proselytizing and abuse of power wrapped up in red cloth.

We can do it again.

The question is: Are we? (Thanks for the resources by the way.) We attribute our survival to the divine but let’s not use that as an excuse to ignore the problem. We’d just be “testing the Lord” if that were the case.

I don’t deny that this hasn’t happened before. I’m denying that there were Catholics who did something to help.

The question is for us, who have descended from those Catholics. What are we doing now? Are we trying hard enough?

From what I’ve seen here, it doesn’t look that way. We want an image of integrity yet the world views us as the reincarnation of the Pharisees.

 

[Kithrus]

I don’t think there is a PR problem with the church I think there’s a verbal diarrhea problem with the media that needs to sell papers/shows.

Too often does the church say something innocent that some neo hippi right wing feminist extremist comes along and twists to the story in such a way to impress a personal agenda.

If the media as a whole honestly just asked clarifying questions instead of putting their own sinister spin on things we would be alot better off.

A perfect example of this is the CBC coverage of the March for life in Canada. They never state the correct numbers and they often refer to the march as an attempt to revoke womens rights.

without getting into the long winded debate about prolife issues you all know its not about the rights as much as responisbility. but heck the media muddies up the water just to cause a stink if not push a liberal agenda.

So ultimately to Answer your question no there isn’t a PR problem. I can say however should we be blessed with a young charismatic pope who can wittily disarm these over the top modernist nut jobs you will see things change.

Till such a time we can only do what any normal group does when slandered. Tell the truth to those who want to hear it and ignore those who don’t.

 

[Lochias]

Oh but it does! Again, if you have an image, a reputation, you live up to it. You want integrity? It’s synonymous in that sense. If you want to build an image of holiness, it must be reflected in your actions.

You’re comparing the Church, essentially, to a modern & secular business model. Apples and oranges, dude…you can’t compare the two. Holiness and integrity have absolutely jack-all to do with presenting what the secular world would consider a “good image”. We ARE the good image…the vast majority of the world, so it seems, is what’s not seeing clearly.

And on the subject of targeting, there’s a reason why I put this under evangelization. On the outside, I see so many religious leaders doing the social equivalent of suicide bombing: shaming themselves in public and earning the ire of the secular mob.

Not sure where you’re going with this statement.

You call that evangelizing? No, that’s confrontational proselytizing and abuse of power wrapped up in red cloth.

Can you cite some specific examples? Sounds like a tangent without one.

The question is: Are we? (Thanks for the resources by the way.) We attribute our survival to the divine but let’s not use that as an excuse to ignore the problem. We’d just be “testing the Lord” if that were the case.

The fact that we aren’t ignoring problems is why the “secular mob” dislikes us so much. You can’t stick to an objective truth that shows other people what kind of lies they’re living and expect to remain popular. Jesus was not at ALL concerned about “PR” when he did his preaching. People tried to throw him off cliffs! I think we’re in good company, myself.

I don’t deny that this hasn’t happened before. I’m denying that there were Catholics who did something to help.

Define “help”.

The question is for us, who have descended from those Catholics. What are we doing now? Are we trying hard enough?

The world is choosing to turn a deaf ear to the Truth. Can’t force 'em. We won’t bow to peer pressure and make nice about what’s evil, though we’ll be as kind as we can about it.

From what I’ve seen here, it doesn’t look that way. We want an image of integrity yet the world views us as the reincarnation of the Pharisees.

The world isn’t thinking about us as Pharisees at all; that would imply that the “secular mob” cares about religious truth and love.

They view our ways and teachings as the disruption of their comfortably sinful lifestyles; no amount of “PR” in the world will ever make them behave.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

We ARE the good image…the vast majority of the world, so it seems, is what’s not seeing clearly.

Really? Sex abuse cover-up is just ‘the world not seeing clearly?’ I don’t think so. Why do I always have to repeat myself to you? I don’t deny that corporate media has a habit of putting on a spin on things to sell. But hey, guess what? They’ve rued themselves for distorting that image that well. Don’t you see? The power of public image is already manifesting itself because you have lost faith in the media just as the media and the rest of the world has lost faith in our Church because neither are living up to the image which they had set up.

Not sure where you’re going with this statement.

You never do.

Can you cite some specific examples? Sounds like a tangent without one.

One our priests likes to bring the RH Bill in every homily he makes. This blog from one of our local papers also speaks of a similar incident. Oh and let’s not forget all the buzz we Filipinos have been hearing saying that Pacman’s loss was the result of his changing religion and the RH Bill getting a pass.

You can whistle and downplay the horrid mistakes these public figures are making but I call things as it is (and don’t make snarky side comments and personal vendettas argue for otherwise).

The fact that we aren’t ignoring problems is why the “secular mob” dislikes us so much. You can’t stick to an objective truth that shows other people what kind of lies they’re living and expect to remain popular.

You’re fine proof that we are in ignorance. Thanks for not reading because this is the second time I’ve had to tell you that being good with your image is not about ‘winning’ something so pointlessly relative as a popularity contest.

Define “help”.

How about we stop burying skeleton guns and then screaming to our ‘persecutors’ to shoot us when they could easily be dug again?

The world is choosing to turn a deaf ear to the Truth. Can’t force 'em. We won’t bow to peer pressure and make nice about what’s evil, though we’ll be as kind as we can about it.

If you’re trying to be an example of being kind with the truth, you’re closer to being an example of the problem and not a solution.

Has it ever occurred to any of you that it’s not really the truth that people have a problem with?

It’s the heavy-handed, pompous, and Pharisaical way that we ‘spread the word.’

The world isn’t thinking about us as Pharisees at all; that would imply that the “secular mob” cares about religious truth and love.

So I’m guessing people on your peaceful part of the planet don’t:

• Raise the sex abuse case much.
• Point to the historical ills of other clerical abuses (in my country’s case, the Spanish)
• Point to certain periods in your country’s history where religious domination was synonymous with brainwashing and anti-academic idiocy

They view our ways and teachings as the disruption of their comfortably sinful lifestyles; no amount of “PR” in the world will ever make them behave.

Okay, it’s official. You are a being a sample, not a solution.

 

[Kithrus]

Really? Sex abuse cover-up is just ‘the world not seeing clearly?’ I don’t think so. Why do I always have to repeat myself to you? I don’t deny that corporate media has a habit of putting on a spin on things to sell. But hey, guess what? They’ve rued themselves for distorting that image that well. Don’t you see? The power of public image is already manifesting itself because you have lost faith in the media just as the media and the rest of the world has lost faith in our Church because neither are living up to the image which they had set up.

The Sex abuse cases were only covered up under the advisement of top physiologist who were advising the same course of actions in the cases of boy-scouts, teachers, and doctors. Move the offender tell the abused to bi silent, investigate.

The whole premise behind it was to avoid a media frenzy and loss of faith in authority and deal with the philological cause of the crime with the accused without the aggravation due process.

We all know this doesn’t work but the church accepted it as logical. Now here we are 40 years later and the pope gave orders that is any priest is caught to hand him over to the authorities.

There is no cover up, no command to families to be silenced. The only case this is given silence is if the crime is found under the seal of confession. The pope made it quite clear he wants those priests dragged before the courts of law stripped of rank and delt with accordingly.

The problem again is the media. You heard maybe a few years back the raid the Belgium govement did at a meeting of bishops to find so called ‘cover up’ evidence? I haven’t heard a stitch of evidenace found. The media however had a hey day point out the raid happened but not a single peep was made if they found something.

Which they clearly didn’t.

I understand you have the point of view that the church is in perial. I had my feelings like that too not that long ago but in this age of information you’d be suprised how much mis information there is.

Hell look at the amount of people who honest to God still think Obama is Muslim. That was a slander streak that stuck and it had zero truth to it but because it was spun in such a way it stuck.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

The Sex abuse cases were only covered up under the advisement of top physiologist who were advising the same course of actions in the cases of boy-scouts, teachers, and doctors. Move the offender tell the abused to bi silent, investigate.

As much as I also would like to point something like that out, calling the mistake an influence of the culture at the time will not work if we simultaneously preach about going against popular culture (a growing trend I’ve noticed in 21st century Catholic evangelism).

We all know this doesn’t work but the church accepted it as logical. Now here we are 40 years later and the pope gave orders that is any priest is caught to hand him over to the authorities.

So what do you suggest we do more to not only avoid making the same mistake but to show everyone that we will do more to know better?

The problem again is the media. You heard maybe a few years back the raid the Belgium govement did at a meeting of bishops to find so called ‘cover up’ evidence? I haven’t heard a stitch of evidenace found. The media however had a hey day point out the raid happened but not a single peep was made if they found something.

Which they clearly didn’t.

Well this isn’t exactly comforting given that we are already have an image of covering things up. Again, I think it’s time we invest more in evaluating the current state of the Church’s image. Some Catholics say things as if we were still in the position power we had in medieval Europe!

I understand you have the point of view that the church is in perial. I had my feelings like that too not that long ago but in this age of information you’d be suprised how much mis information there is.

Oh I don’t disagree with that but I just think we have to do more to deal with this mess. All I’ve seen are Catholics just shoveling more and more to add to the confusion. (Case in point: Evolution. shudder)

 

[kkollwitz]

Elijah, Jeremiah, John the Baptist, and Jesus all had a PR problem.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Elijah, Jeremiah, John the Baptist, and Jesus all had a PR problem.

Really? They seemed to live up to the image they created. Have you read of any case where they said or did something that was used against them? (No, false accusations and political conspiracies to get them executed do not count.)

Please, people, stop saying the same for the Church.

 

[Kithrus]

Really? They seemed to live up to the image they created. Have you read of any case where they said or did something that was used against them? (No, false accusations and political conspiracies to get them executed do not count.)

Please, people, stop saying the same for the Church.

Why doesn’t it count? Internet not withstanding at the time since they didn’t have it why do you assume it was different then now? People still talked and gossiped, rumours abounded and slander was used.