Does The Church Have An Obligation To Promote The Latin Mass ?

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No it doesn’t. The early Christians did *not *face the people, used Greek, *not *the vernacular, did *not *have altar girls, and did *not *change the words of Consecration. Your statement is a sick joke.
How do you know they did not face the people? Do you have any objective evidence to support your claim? And just what do you mean by “early Christians”?

Yes, they used Greek (not Latin) which was the vernacular. So what’s wrong with using the vernacular now? The transition to Latin occurred because Latin became the vernacular.

And when did the “words of consecration” become so central? There are ancient (valid) Eucharistic Prayers that never had the words of institution.

Please refrain from calling people’s thoughts here “sick jokes”
 
Also, the TLM was basically unchanged since the time of Pope Saint Gregory the Great, in about the 6th century. It is indeed much closer to Apostolic Tradition than something invented in 1969!
Nonsense. Gregory changed what he received, and the Mass continues to be changed following him. The Mass of Paul VI retrieved things that Gregory (and others) decided to omit.

What is your basis for claiming that the Missal of 1962 is closer to Apostolic Tradition than the Missal promulgated by Paul VI?
 
The use of the word “obligation” in the question answers the question. The documents say that the Latin language must be preserved. They also say that the Extraordinary Form must be preserved and given due honor. However, the documents also say that the Ordinary Form, which so many people want to continue calling the NO, is the form of the universal Church.

No where do any documents say that the local Churches must promote the Extraordinary Form. Preserve and hold in place of honor do not bind one to promote. They bind one to protect, respect and accept.

We have to be very careful on these topics, because we can fall into a violation of charity where we begin to compare ourselves to others and point the finger at each other as if to say, “I’m more orthodox than you are.” That behavior is far from the meaning and holiness of the liturgy. Maybe that’s what the Church wants to avoid by not using words such as “promote, command, demand, oblige or bind” and when she makes it clear that she has no plans to eliminate the Ordinary Form, but instead wants to preserve the Extraordinary Form.

As to why the Holy Father does not celebrate this form in public, my guess is that he wants to keep it “extraordinary”, as in not the official form of the Latin Church. That’s just speculation on my part.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF
 
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And when did the “words of consecration” become so central? There are ancient (valid) Eucharistic Prayers that never had the words of institution.

Please refrain from calling people’s thoughts here “sick jokes”
Yes, the Anaphora of Adai and Mari never had the words of institution and is still used today with the approval of Rome. I would question more why the Roman Canon does not have an epiclesis? It is present in all other Eucharistic prayers.
 
Yes the Church has .
The Pope is God’s appointed head of the Church not You or I.
When Vatican 11 introduced the new mass we Had to follow and I think they were wrong.
Now Pope Benedict says to let them say the Latin Mass . He is the leader of our Church and we are the Followers.
The Bishops and Priest and we Have an Obligation to Promote the Latin Masses and If people would open their hearts and their minds to the Lord they would know why.
I feel if you don’t you are going against Gods will for the Pope is his representive.
 
Yes the Church has .
The Pope is God’s appointed head of the Church not You or I.
When Vatican 11 introduced the new mass we Had to follow and I think they were wrong.
Now Pope Benedict says to let them say the Latin Mass . He is the leader of our Church and we are the Followers.
The Bishops and Priest and we Have an Obligation to Promote the Latin Masses and If people would open their hearts and their minds to the Lord they would know why.
I feel if you don’t you are going against Gods will for the Pope is his representive.
Again, please show documentation where it says TLM has to be promoted…all I have read says it is to be allowed if there is a need for those who have a stable attachment to it.
 
I disagree.

“Must be given due honor” is not the same as “must promote.” Nowhere does Benedict make it obligatory on all Catholics. In fact, he states that the “Ordinary Form” (as he identifies it) i.e. the Missal of Paul VI is the way most Catholics worship.
Oh, so how do you give it due honor? Do you stick it in a museum? Explain how you give it due honor please.
 
They are. When the clarification comes out, they’ll be surprised to as to its content.

It’s interesting how for 40 years, traditionalists always claimed that the TLM was never abrogated. If you read traditionalist literature from that time and the 70s, one will see how that is the case. People and bishops made fun of them for that, and yet the Pope proved them right! Of course, how did traditionalists know that that was the case? hmm:)
Yes the Church has .
The Pope is God’s appointed head of the Church not You or I.
When Vatican 11 introduced the new mass we Had to follow and I think they were wrong.
Now Pope Benedict says to let them say the Latin Mass . He is the leader of our Church and we are the Followers.
The Bishops and Priest and we Have an Obligation to Promote the Latin Masses and If people would open their hearts and their minds to the Lord they would know why.
I feel if you don’t you are going against Gods will for the Pope is his representive.
 
Again, please show documentation where it says TLM has to be promoted…all I have read says it is to be allowed if there is a need for those who have a stable attachment to it.
“it is to be allowed if there is a need for those who have a stable attachment to it” is what it means to be promoted.

Read news reports. There are priests and bishops even to this day who refuse to allow the TLM, even though bishops no longer have the authority to obstruct this Mass.
 
Funny how it was considered valid only after Vatican II…
Yes, the Anaphora of Adai and Mari never had the words of institution and is still used today with the approval of Rome. I would question more why the Roman Canon does not have an epiclesis? It is present in all other Eucharistic prayers.
 
Um, the fact that it basically comes from Apostolic Tradition. The Pauline Mass comes from 1969 and is a new rite.
What is your basis for claiming that the Missal of 1962 is closer to Apostolic Tradition than the Missal promulgated by Paul VI?
 
How do you know they did not face the people? Do you have any objective evidence to support your claim? And just what do you mean by “early Christians”?
Because it’s a Tradition of the Church to face East. The Jews did it. Any orthodox book on the liturgy will tell you that.* I *don’t need to show *you *objective evidence.
Yes, they used Greek (not Latin) which was the vernacular. So what’s wrong with using the vernacular now? The transition to Latin occurred because Latin became the vernacular.
Latin was chosen as the language of the Church - that is what makes it just as Sacred as Hebrew and Greek. The vernacular changes; in case you haven’t noticed, the Novus Ordo has plenty of translation errors. Because the Church says to preserve Latin as a Tradition, then we need to do so. There are no exceptions.
And when did the “words of consecration” become so central? There are ancient (valid) Eucharistic Prayers that never had the words of institution.
These are the form of the Sacrament. To disregard it in the Latin rite is heresy.
 
It is obligatory for every diocese to have at least one TLM. Just because he states that most people worship at the Novus Ordo doesn’t mean that that *must *be the case forever and always.
I disagree.

“Must be given due honor” is not the same as “must promote.” Nowhere does Benedict make it obligatory on all Catholics. In fact, he states that the “Ordinary Form” (as he identifies it) i.e. the Missal of Paul VI is the way most Catholics worship.
 
They are. When the clarification comes out, they’ll be surprised to as to its content.

It’s interesting how for 40 years, traditionalists always claimed that the TLM was never abrogated. If you read traditionalist literature from that time and the 70s, one will see how that is the case. People and bishops made fun of them for that, and yet the Pope proved them right! Of course, how did traditionalists know that that was the case? hmm:)
Actually, you are only half right. It is true, what is now the Extraordinary Form of the Mass was not abrogated; however, the law that put it into effect as the norm of the universal Church, Quo Primum Tempore, was. It only allowed the Mass to be said “in perpetuity”, according to the changes initiated by Pope Pius V, if future popes did not abrogate the law Quo Primum. Pope Paul VI did so, and he was perfectly within his authority when he did, as a past pope cannot bind his successors in matters of discipline, including how the liturgy is to be said. Even papal bulls, such as those which protect religious orders of Pontifical Right, can be revoked by future popes if they wish to do so.

Have you been insinuating from your posts that Catholics like myself, who attend the Ordinary Form, are in fact not attending a Catholic Mass? If that is the case, then you are accusing us of idolatry because you would be implying that we are receiving nothing more than ordinary bread and wine. Even the pope himself, who celebrates the Ordinary Form on a normal basis, would not be consecrating bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ simply by virtue of the fact that he celebrates that Form publicly. I would be careful in accusing others of such things, if I were in your position.
 
It was never expressly abrogated, including the privileges contained in the bull of St. Pius V.

Secondly, there are more than a few instances of invalid Novus Ordos. Proper *matter *and *form *are essential for a valid Sacrament, and there are cases well documented where one or the other (or both!) are lacking.
Actually, you are only half right. It is true, what is now the Extraordinary Form of the Mass was not abrogated; however, the law that put it into effect as the norm of the universal Church, Quo Primum Tempore, was. It only allowed the Mass to be said “in perpetuity”, according to the changes initiated by Pope Pius V, if future popes did not abrogate the law Quo Primum. Pope Paul VI did so, and he was perfectly within his authority when he did, as a past pope cannot bind his successors in matters of discipline, including how the liturgy is to be said. Even papal bulls, such as those which protect religious orders of Pontifical Right, can be revoked by future popes if they wish to do so.

Have you been insinuating from your posts that Catholics like myself, who attend the Ordinary Form, are in fact not attending a Catholic Mass? If that is the case, then you are accusing us of idolatry because you would be implying that we are receiving nothing more than ordinary bread and wine. Even the pope himself, who celebrates the Ordinary Form on a normal basis, would not be consecrating bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ simply by virtue of the fact that he celebrates that Form publicly. I would be careful in accusing others of such things, if I were in your position.
 
It was never expressly abrogated, including the privileges contained in the bull of St. Pius V.

Secondly, there are more than a few instances of invalid Novus Ordos. Proper *matter *and *form *are essential for a valid Sacrament, and there are cases well documented where one or the other (or both!) are lacking.
There are certainly individual parishes where this has been the case, but you cannot generalize and say that all parishes that do not celebrate the Extraordinary Form exclusively have invalidated the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Form and matter are important, but so is also the intent to confect the Sacrament; if those three are present, as it likely is in the majority of parishes that celebrate the Ordinary Form, then the Sacrament is validly confected.

You are getting into dangerous territory, as I said, if you say or even imply that the Sacrament is always confected invalidly in the Ordinary Form. That means you are accusing all Catholics who attend this Form of idol worship, because you are suggesting we do not have the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ on our altars, but mere bread and wine. That is suggesting that, when I am at Mass in my home parish, I am worshiping only objects, rather than the Person hidden beneath their accidents.
 
And I have never accused, assumed, implied, or said that, so stop “warning” me about it.
There are certainly individual parishes where this has been the case, but you cannot generalize and say that all parishes that do not celebrate the Extraordinary Form exclusively have invalidated the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Form and matter are important, but so is also the intent to confect the Sacrament; if those three are present, as it likely is in the majority of parishes that celebrate the Ordinary Form, then the Sacrament is validly confected.

You are getting into dangerous territory, as I said, if you say or even imply that the Sacrament is always confected invalidly in the Ordinary Form. That means you are accusing all Catholics who attend this Form of idol worship, because you are suggesting we do not have the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ on our altars, but mere bread and wine. That is suggesting that, when I am at Mass in my home parish, I am worshiping only objects, rather than the Person hidden beneath their accidents.
 
However, the documents also say that the Ordinary Form, which so many people want to continue calling the NO, is the form of the universal Church.
This is the second time I have seen this claim made.

The Ordinary Form of the Mass is not the form of the universal Church. The universal Church has ordinary form of the Eucharistic Sacrifice, each sui juris Church within the universal Catholic Church has its own Ordinary Form.

We must remember that the Latin Catholic Church is not the universal Church, but a part of it. Just as the Maronite, Melkite, Ruthenian, Ukrainian, Chaldean, and the other Catholic Churches are a part of it.
 
Yes the Church has .
The Pope is God’s appointed head of the Church not You or I.
When Vatican 11 introduced the new mass we Had to follow and I think they were wrong.
Now Pope Benedict says to let them say the Latin Mass . He is the leader of our Church and we are the Followers.
The Bishops and Priest and we Have an Obligation to Promote the Latin Masses and If people would open their hearts and their minds to the Lord they would know why.
I feel if you don’t you are going against Gods will for the Pope is his representive.
Pope Benedict’s motu poprio didn’t say that it had to be “promoted”, only that it had to be respected, that priests were free to celebrate it (IOW, didn’t need permission from their bishop) and that stable groups who requested it should be accommodated. The MP also was quite clear that it was the “Extraordinary Form” and that there was nothing wrong with the “Ordinary Form”

The term “Latin Masses” is confusing since the Ordinary Form can and should be celebrated in Latin more often.
 
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