Does The Church Have An Obligation To Promote The Latin Mass ?

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If you want the TLM gravitate towards those priests who offer it and support them and the Masses they offer. It’s a very worthy endeavour; educational, edifying and uplifting.

If anyone asks why you’re doing it, explain why.

The Motu Proprio is only a beginning. Reviving this rite in a wider culture focussed on the individual, the personalised and the new will not be easy, especially when it seems sections of the Church itself are indifferent or hostile, but if Christ is for it, who can stand against it?

Interesting times to be alive!
 
On youtube there is a Father Donald Kloster who gives four short talks on the TLM. I thought it was really good but I came back to the Catholic Church only recently…so not great at discerning all the time. If anyone googles him and hears his talk on the TLM…I want to know if he is accurate because his talks are so very good!
 
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The Motu Proprio is only a beginning.!
I’m curious to know what you mean by that? As I read Summorum Pontificum, I see it as a generous outreach by the Pope, but not necessarily as a beginning for more to follow. Can you clairfy? Thanks.
 
We have to be very careful not to allow our wishes to be inserted into the actions of the Church. I realize that many people would like to see a return to many traditions and customs of the past. But when we begin to insert those hopes into such decrees as Summorum Pontificum we run the risk of being disappointed.

My suggestion to everyone is to let things play out on their own. We will recover some things. I believe that. Will we give up everything that has come after Vatican II? No. We will not. A lot of good has come from the post Vatican II Church.

I was just sharing with a friend who asked me if there were any new religious orders. I was able to point out that in my own religious family, as a result of Vatican II’s decree “Perfectae Caritatis” my own Franciscan community is being born. I say being born, because we are very tiny and in need of vocations. In the same family we have other flourishing communities such as the Franciscans of the Renewal, the Franciscans of the Immaculate, the Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word, the Franciscans of the Primitive Observance, the Franciscans of Peace, and my community the Brothers of Life of the Order of St. Francis. This is just in the USA. Had it not been for Vatican II and “Perfectae Caritatis” this would not have happened.

Then we have some other wonderful movements and schools of holiness such as Opus Dei, the renewal of the Secular Orders in 1978. The Secular Francisan Order alone has grown to 600,000 in 114 countries with its own rule, its own constitutions, its own superior general at the Vatican. So have the Carmelites and Dominicans. There are others as well, many new ones.

The Catholic communications media was born as a result of Vatican II. Many lay movements were also born from the study of Lumen Gentium. Relations between the Church and other faiths are slowly progressing. The first step toward conversion is building trusting relationships.

I can go on and on. But the point is simple. We cannot or should not, put our own wishes and hope into the decrees of the Church. Let them stand on their own. Let the Church grow at her own pace and according the Lord’s design, not our wishes.

In the meantime, we can embrace the contemplative life, the ascetical life, the life of detachment and total submission to the will of God as it is expressed through the Church and the bishops. The world needs conversion. But it won’t happen, unless we begin our own journey of conversion.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
If it is the same Sacrament, the same words, the same prayers, the same true Church Christ created, regardless of language, it is the same mass. When we get into positioning some statue, some object, some painting, some stained glass window, some spot that is man made and deem it acceptable, or unacceptable, then we have some problems folks…

Where did Jesus preach? What did he require those that listened, status among the people, I bet our modern assemblies are kinda different, why is that?
 
If it is the same Sacrament, the same words, the same prayers, the same true Church Christ created, regardless of language, it is the same mass. When we get into positioning some statue, some object, some painting, some stained glass window, some spot that is man made and deem it acceptable, or unacceptable, then we have some problems folks…

Where did Jesus preach? What did he require those that listened, status among the people, I bet our modern assemblies are kinda different, why is that?
We can’t deny the process of evolution, even in liturgy. As man came to a greater understanding of the awesome mystery of the mass and the wonders of grace, he gradually developed new disciplines that expressed such wonder and holiness. This is ia good thing. Thus, throughout the ages, the liturgy became more solem, more embelished and more graceful. Every gesture and word tried to communicate the mystery of the cross and the resurrection which is celebrated in liturgy. It tried to reflect the greatness of Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary. This is all well and good. It has done wonders for many people. Evantually the Latin Church decided to standardize the liturgy by issuing decrees, missals and lectionariest so that the same mystery could be celebrated throughout the world in the same manner. This is how we came to have the Tridentine liturgy or what people call the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM).

At the same time Vatican II saw the need to revise the disciplines in the liturgy to make it easier for modern man to follow and to reflect not only the sacrifice of Calvary, but also the unity of the Church. Though many will argue that it was put together by a committee, it does not really matter much in the mind of the Holy See, who has the final authority over the liturgy. In the end, what matters to the Holy See is that the mass that we call the Ordinary Form was approved by the proper authority, Pope Paul VI. A pope does not need to wait for 500 years of development to change the rubrics of the mass. It is his perrogative as the supreme liturgist of the Church. This is probably when some people get stuck. They forget that the Pope can do this. He has the right to do this and we don’t have to like it.

As his title says, he is the Sovereign Pontiff. This means that he does not have to make anyone happy, except God. Too many people seem to feel that the Holy Fathers have to make the people happy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Their role is to keep the Church together and in the case of liturgy, their role is to ensure that the liturgy does what it’s supposed to do. It is supposed to be the perfect sacrifice in an unbloody manner. It is supposed to celebrate the cross and resurrection of Christ. It is supposed to be a source of grace. Frinally, it is to be efficaciioius, meaning that the sacrament must be valid. It is from the sacrament that we get grace, not the details. Therefore, the Ordianry Form and the Extraordinary From both fulfill their role in the life of the Church. Neither gives more graces, even though the individuals may feel that they get more out of one than the other.

One thing that Mystical Theology has always condemned is the notion of “feeling”. It is important to know, to beleive and to express what we believe through the practice of charity. If there is no charity as a result of what we do at mass, then we have not acheived much. The mass, in either form, is the ultimate sacrifice of love. We are not there just to observe and adore. That’s part of it. But we must leave the mass with an increased longing to reach the perfection of charity. We are all called to holiness. As St. James teaches us, “Show me your faith and I will show you my works.” Our faith, which we celebrate in both forms of the mass, must be expressed in works of charity.

So that when people come on these threads and bash the Church, the bishops, the Council and their follow posters over the liturgy, they are doing exactly the opposite of what they celebrate at mass. We celebrate perfect self-giving and generous love. But we bully others in the name of love. Truth without charity is not really truth. “Even Satan can quote scripture.” In other words, anyone can quote truth. But to live it from day to day is another thing.

I believe that one reason why the Catholic Church has so many rites and allows them to exist without interference is because they do what they’re supposed to do. The evoke love and adoration for God and charity toward neighbor. This is one complaint that some bishops have legitimately posed to the Vatican. They find that some who are committed to the EF are less than charitable and less than obedient to the local bishop. This is not what the Holy Father intended when he wrote Summorum Pontificum. The document itself speaks of one Latin rite, one mass, one Church and two forms. The document is very clear that the Ordianry Form is holy. Pope Benedict refers to it as being holy. Therefore, there is no rational motive for him to promote its replacement with the Extraordinary Form. Why would you want to replace something that is holy. If you can have two forms that are both holy, then you go that way. Let us remember that this is a pope who is very much in love with reason. All of his teachings constantly bring up reason and the importance of reason in the life of faith. Therefore, we must follow his sense of reason. In his reason, there is no obligation to promote the EF when we have the OF which is just as holy. Just as there is no reason to abrogate the EF, because it too is holy. Therefore, let both stand as they are.

Let us not try to change the game plan of the Church because we feel more comfortable with one over the other. Let us be grateful that we have access to both forms of the same awesome mystery.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Constitutio Dogmatica *Sacrosanctum Concilium *(XXXVI) affirmat:
“§1. Linguae latinae usus, salvo particulari iure, in Ritibus latinis servetur.
§2. Cum tamen, sive in Missa, sive in Sacramentorum administratione, sive in aliis Liturgiae partibus, haud raro linguae vernaculae usurpatio valde utilis apud populum exsistere possit, amplior locus ipsi tribui valeat, imprimis autem in lectionibus et admonitionibus, in nonnullis orationibus et cantibus, iuxta normas quae de hac re in sequentibus capitibus singillatim statuuntur.”

Litterae Apostolice Benedicti XVI *Summorum Pontificum *non de linguae latinae uso disserunt, sed de uso Missalis Romani a Pio V promulgati et a Ioanne XXIII denuo editi.

Celebratio Missae ex antiquo ritu romano mihi videtur inopportuna.

Praeterea, “cum, sive in Missa, sive in Sacramentorum administratione, sive in aliis Liturgiae partibus, haud raro linguae vernaculae usurpatio valde utilis apud populum exsistere possit”, puto ut potius vulgare sermo Missa celebranda esse.

Concineat quisquis linguam latinam non intellegit. 👍
Nobody answered to my post. Does anybody speak Latin?
I thought that most of you were experts on Cicero’s language.
 
Heh heh, I think it’s funny how many posters in the Traditional Catholic sub-forum don’t seem to care for Tradition at all.
 
Heh heh, I think it’s funny how many posters in the Traditional Catholic sub-forum don’t seem to care for Tradition at all.
This if off subject, but I am struck often on how intolerant those who call themselves Traditional Cathlic seem at time.
This tread wants to force bishops to promote the TLM, why? because in thier opinion, that mass is more sacred than the OF. I am always truck on how they ignore the vast amounts of theolical and historical information that proves that the OF is just as sacred as the EF. What particularly interseting is how willing they are, as Traditionalist, to question thier own ordinary and the magistarium. A true Traditionalist would never question the Church in any way, but the posters on this site have no problem with thier decent on the practices of the Church.
When the Church started using Latin it was the venacular of the day. By default it has to be the offical Language of the Church because if it were not kept alive, no could read the vast documnents stored in Vatican. That in no way means it needs to the language used around the world.

Peace,
FAB
 
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