Does the Church place the unborn at a higher value of protection than the born? (EDITED TITLE)

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ryecroft
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Not an opinion - a fact. No good comes from the death of a mother and her child when one can be saved. If it had been that the fetus was old enough to live and I died allowing them to save the fetus then you wouldn’t have a problem - this situation was just the reverse.

Your opinion (and it is your opinion) is in opposition to Church teaching.
That is the only point I am emphasizing here.

Would you say that it’s better for one martyr to to die when two were called to die?
Your reasoning regarding abortion is just that flawed.
As Catholics, we are not given the right to choose to end an innocent life - ever.
 
[B said:
ryecroft;5453551[/B]

Quite likely so. Then you would be dead - having been a valiant mother,
martyred in obedience to the teaching that you are not allowed to kill your child.

How is that a problem?**
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catharina said:
ryecroft;5453551:
Your opinion (and it is your opinion
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) is in opposition to Church teaching.
That is the only point I am emphasizing here.

Would you say that it’s better for one martyr to to die when two were called to die?
Your reasoning regarding abortion is just that flawed.
As Catholics, we are not given the right to choose to end an innocent life - ever.

Nope, it’s no opinion - it’s a fact - it’s not my fault the fetus couldn’t exist outside of me - but it’s fully admitted that had this been the other way around and I had been killed by the fetus and it lived that would have been just fine. Apparently in your view a mother’s life truly isn’t worth as much as a fetus regarless of if it can sustain itself outside of her or not. You’ve thrown a ton of church teaching at me but you still have given no answer to what good would have come from both of us dying-and you may believe that all of this Church teaching allows you to know how God will judge myself or anyone in a similar situation but you lack any understanding of the compassion I know God has. My husband would have lost a wife - children a mother neices and nephews an aunt, parents a daughter-grand parents a grand daughter and God Children a God Mother -no good what soever would have come from two deaths and until you can tell me specifically what good would have come from my death as well as the fetal death than you’re not even worth my time. It wouldn’t even have been a “heroic death” it would have been suicide

God Bless
Rye
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ryecroft said:
Nope, it’s no opinion - it’s a fact - it’s not my fault the fetus couldn’t exist outside of me - but it’s fully admitted that had this been the other way around and I had been killed by the fetus and it lived that would have been just fine. Apparently in your view a mother’s life truly isn’t worth as much as a fetus regarless of if it can sustain itself outside of her or not. You’ve thrown a ton of church teaching at me but you still have given no answer to what good would have come from both of us dying. My husband would have lost a wife - children a mother neices and nephews an aunt, parents a daughter -no good what soever would have come from two deaths and until you can tell me specifically what good would have come from my death as well as the fetal death than you’re not even worth my time. It’s lucky you’re too old to have any more children - this way you’ll never have to prove what you would do if you were ever in a similar situation.
God Bless
Rye
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If you don’t consider your own salvation to be invaluable then you can continue to argue against the teaching of the Church. You are certainly NOT arguing with me. Would your husband have found a better wife? Your children, a better mother? Your parents a greater service as devoted grandparents? Would YOU have been able to bless all of them abundantly from heaven - forever?

Slamming me about my age in relation to your fantasies can only prove your immaturity. I endured injuries from the birth of my son 35 years ago that left me dependent on medical care and reconstructive surgeries for 18 yrs. It changed the quality of my life forever. It ended my marriage. Would I trade the life of my precious son for an easier life. NO!

Spare me, please. Go and try your arguments with Almighty God.
You might begin with “O my God, I’m heartily sorry … .”
 
You might begin with “O my God, I’m heartily sorry … .” Catharina quote

I might if I had something to confess -

As I said before - you’re not even worth my time to respond any more-

God Bless-
Rye
 
ryecroft,
I quote your opening post in the Social Justice thread on Abortion.
You say:“Why is it that Catholics (and yes I am one - even though I’m pro-choice in most circumstances) …”

**
Ahhhh, ryecroft, I see now what you believe. Yet I can’t see why you imagine yourself to be a faithful Catholic since you are in full dissent with a profound teaching of the Church.**
 
catharina said:
As Catholics, we are not given the right to choose to end an innocent life - ever.
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I’m not sure this is true. If you accept the just war theory, which is part of Catholic tradition, innocent lives could be lost in a morally acceptable “just war.”
 
ryecroft said:
I might if I had something to confess -

As I said before - you’re not even worth my time to respond any more-

God Bless-
Rye
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ryecroft,
I quote your opening post in the Social Justice thread on Abortion.
You say:“Why is it that Catholics (and yes I am one - even though I’m pro-choice in most circumstances) …”

Ahhhh, ryecroft, I see now what you believe. Yet I can’t see why you imagine yourself to be a faithful Catholic since you are in full dissent with a profound teaching of the Church.

If you imagine that you are exempt from the ban on abortion, you need to reality-check your imagination. That you decide to spread such a falsehood is another grave error.
 
diggerdomer said:
I’m not sure this is true. If you accept the just war theory, which is part of Catholic tradition, innocent lives could be lost in a morally acceptable “just war.”
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They could be lost - but NOT as a deliberate action against such innocents.
 
catharina said:
They could be lost - but NOT as a deliberate action against such innocents.
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But doesn’t any decision to go to war admit the possibility of innocent lives being lost?

Let’s be realistic here.
 
diggerdomer said:
But doesn’t any decision to go to war admit the possibility of innocent lives being lost?

Let’s be realistic here.
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Oops, you’re back.
Being faithful to Church Teaching is not at odds with being realistic.

Deliberate intent by some to participate in abortion is DELIBERATE killing of the innocent.
Now, good night.
 
catharina said:
They could be lost - but NOT as a deliberate action against such innocents.
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They’re still being lost as a direct result of a conscious decision. So while the deliberate decision may not have intended their loss, primarily, the deliberate decision certainly accounted for and accepted the realistic possibility (and let’s face it, reality) of the loss.
 
catharina said:
Oops, you’re back.
Being faithful to Church Teaching is not at odds with being realistic.

Deliberate intent by some to participate in abortion is DELIBERATE killing of the innocent.
Now, good night.
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Deliberate intent by some to participate in war is DELIBERATE killing of the innocent.

Good night as well.
 
diggerdomer said:
They’re still being lost as a direct result of a conscious decision. So while the deliberate decision may not have intended their loss, primarily, the deliberate decision certainly accounted for and accepted the realistic possibility (and let’s face it, reality) of the loss.
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The deliberate intention of killing a specific unborn child is exactly that.
It is an intention to bring about the considered and planned death of an innocent.

You might need to “argue” with God about this too because
the Church makes NO exception to its ban on abortion.

Good night.
 
diggerdomer said:
Deliberate intent by some to participate in war is DELIBERATE killing of the innocent.

Good night as well.
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Pray that you learn to make a distinction.
Killing the innocent is always wrong.
Intentional killing of the defenseless unborn will never fall fall under a “just war” theory.
 
catharina said:
Pray that you learn to make a distinction.
Killing the innocent is always wrong.
Intentional killing of the defenseless unborn will never fall fall under a “just war” theory.
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So are you saying that intentional killing of the defenseless “born” WILL fall under a “just war” theory?

Or are you saying that innocent unborn lives are more valuable than innocent born lives?
 
diggerdomer said:
So are you saying that intentional killing of the defenseless “born” WILL fall under a “just war” theory?

Or are you saying that innocent unborn lives are more valuable than innocent born lives?
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I think it’s been made fairly clear on here that some believe that the life of a fetus is more valuable than the life of the mother. Apparently, since Church teaching says that abortion is never a moral answer, it’s better for a mother and a fetus to loose their lives rather than have the mother live (even if the fetus isn’t viable) - yet, at the same time if the fetus is viable than the mother is supposed to gladly die in order that it might live. It’s becoming pretty clear to me that the life of the mother is worth far less than that of the fetus according to the Church.
 
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