Does the Church provide a definitive stance on Book of Revelation?

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DENNYINMI

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Obviously…and unfortunately, I am “caught up” (no pun here) in a discussion with our Protestant Brethren on the subject of “end times”…

It appears when I look up the teachings of some of the Early Church Fathers, Ireneaus, and so on…they had views on many things that we no longer hold to…example would be the views on a literal millennium…Catholic teaching does not say there is a literal mellennium…it is figurative and should be interpreted as infinity…However, that was not always the case in what was believed…

It appears St. Augustine cleared up much but not until the 4th Century.

Also, what is the Churchs’ actual teaching regarding the Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ??

Does it lean towards preterist or futuristic historical viewpoints???

Please, I can not find difinitive teaching on the subject…even searching the web.

Its a bit mind blowing that Mother Church has never left us blowing in the wind and has proclaimed doctrine and dogma…but not on this subject?

Help!
 
Is there a specific chapter that is troubling you?

Seeing as verses and chapters of Revelation appear throughout the year during Mass, you should feel that the Church gives it her blessing.

I will never believe myself that Nero is the antichrist because Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc. were far worse than he was and the antichrist will be the ultimate.
 
With regard to being concerned about the meanings in Revelation…It is best to be aware of God’s love for you, and to live each day as though it were your last.

Be prayerful, receive the Sacraments and be ready for the time when our Glorious Lord will call you.

“Be not afraid”.

There are many layers of Scripture with deep meanings. I highly recommend Dr. Scott Hahn’s book
“The Lamb’s Supper” - “The Mass as Heaven on Earth.” It is most inspiring and reveals a layer of truth that I never had pondered before. This book alludes to the Book of Revelation.
 
I have found it interesting that the Catholic church, which has writings on almost every imaginable topic has little to offer regarding the Book of Revelation.

Quite a few years ago, I came across the Prophecies of St Malachy, which might give you some insight into the last days. St Malachy, during the 12th century, had a vision of a line of popes from his time to the present. According to these propechies, there would be only one reigning pope after Pope Benedict XVI. (Some Catholic church sources say this line of popes will continue, but secular teachings only affirm one more pope).

Many christian sects are offering the end days teachings to their flock with the exception of the Catholic church, which I find troubling. It is interesting to note that many secular organizations are well aware of the Prophecies of St Malachy as there is a strong belief out there that the Catholic Church is tied into the end days propechies. Time will surely tell how this will all play out, but since our lives will be affected by the outcome, it would be wise to know what is to come in the Book of Revelation, because I believe it is all coming sooner than we think.

God Rocks
 
DENNYINMI said:
Obviously…and unfortunately, I am “caught up” (no pun here) in a discussion with our Protestant Brethren on the subject of “end times”…

It appears when I look up the teachings of some of the Early Church Fathers, Ireneaus, and so on…they had views on many things that we no longer hold to…example would be the views on a literal millennium…Catholic teaching does not say there is a literal mellennium…it is figurative and should be interpreted as infinity…However, that was not always the case in what was believed…

It appears St. Augustine cleared up much but not until the 4th Century.

Also, what is the Churchs’ actual teaching regarding the Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ??

Does it lean towards preterist or futuristic historical viewpoints???

Please, I can not find difinitive teaching on the subject…even searching the web.

Its a bit mind blowing that Mother Church has never left us blowing in the wind and has proclaimed doctrine and dogma…but not on this subject?

Help!
Click to expand...
There is no definitive teaching as to the meanings of the verses in Revelation – in the sense, for example, that the Church says Rev. 3:12 must be understood to mean …
Many verses in Revelation have been seen to have more than one application.
I don’t think there is a single verse in Revelation where the Church has definitively decreed that it must be interpreted in a specific way.
 
I have found the best way to read Scripture is to have a solid knowledge of Church doctrine; that is the sure protection against interpreting a Scripture passage in a way that would be heretical - contrary to Church teaching.
Once one has that solid base of doctrine, there is a great freedom we experience in reading and understanding Scripture. In addition to freeing us from fear of interpreting wrongly, the doctrines themselves light up various meanings the Scripture passages can have that could be totally missed otherwise.
 
Cryptic1 said:
… (Some Catholic church sources say this line of popes will continue, but secular teachings only affirm one more pope).

…
God Rocks
Click to expand...
Secular teachings … ? Which secular teachings ?
@ DENNYINME :

I think Nelka and Dorothy have provided us with some sound advice . Perhaps you might ask our Protestant brethren with whom you are discussing, that if they are so concerned with prophecies about the end times , then how do they interpret this particularly pertinent one which comes from our Blessed Lord Himself ?

Luke 23:27-31 [NAB]

A large crowd of people followed Jesus, including many women who mourned and lamented him.

Jesus turned to them and said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep instead for yourselves and for your children,

for indeed, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed.’

At that time people will say to the mountains, ‘Fall upon us!’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us!’

for if these things are done when the wood is green what will happen when it is dry?"
 
Matthew 24:20-22

Pray that you will not have to make your escape in winter or on a Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unparalleled since the world began, and such as will never be again. And if that time had not been shortened, no human being would have survived; but shortened that time shall be, for the sake of those who are chosen.

:bible1:
 
First of all, you’re never going to find any official Catholic Church teaching document which talks only about the Book of Revelation/Apocalypse. Why? Because the Book of Revelation is designed to be read in the light of the Gospel of John (which means Genesis also), the Book of Daniel, the Book of Ezekiel, the Book of Isaiah, the Book of… well, there’s a ton.

Pretty much every Bible verse with eschatological implications comes into play with the Book of Revelation, being explicitly or implicitly referred to by the text. You can’t read it as a standalone book.

Secondly, the Church has historically been very reluctant to give “official meanings” of any Bible book, because it would presume that the Holy Spirit had only one possible interpretation for everything, which is clearly not correct and would be presumptuous. As St. Jerome says in his letter 18A to Pope Damasus, “There are no single-meaning words in the Scriptures, as some think; buried in them are very many meanings, some signified literally and some mystically.”

Now, there are times when the Church declares that a certain interpretation of a Bible verse is wrong and/or heretical. But even this is done very reluctantly, and often is accompanied by a big list of very similar interpretations which would be perfectly valid and correct. The Church does not want to block scholarship and study and individual thought, or the work of the Holy Spirit through such things.

However, there are a long list of books and works about the Book of Revelation which you can read for edification, many of which are classics. You will probably have to look for books saying they are about “The Apocalypse of St. John” or “John the Blessed” or “John the Beloved”, however.
 
There are a good many documents on Vatican.va which touch on eschatology and/or the Book of Revelation, and/or commentaries on it. For example, Pope Benedict did a very nice little Angelus talk on St. Ambrosius Autpertus and his Expositio in Apocalypsin commentary, which leads the Holy Father to talk about other commentary-buddies previous, like good ol’ Primasius and Ticonius.

(Who just got a nice evangelical Protestant translation by Mr. Wildrich as part of his Revelation Commentaries in Latin volume. You might want to check them out.)

Pope John Paul II did Revelation commentary in his audiences also. Here’s a bit about one of the songs in the Book of Revelation.

I think there have been some eschatologically themed major Church documents, but I don’t really know what they are.
 
DENNYINMI said:
Obviously…and unfortunately, I am “caught up” (no pun here) in a discussion with our Protestant Brethren on the subject of “end times”…

It appears when I look up the teachings of some of the Early Church Fathers, Ireneaus, and so on…they had views on many things that we no longer hold to…example would be the views on a literal millennium…Catholic teaching does not say there is a literal mellennium…it is figurative and should be interpreted as infinity…However, that was not always the case in what was believed…

It appears St. Augustine cleared up much but not until the 4th Century.

Also, what is the Churchs’ actual teaching regarding the Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ??

Does it lean towards preterist or futuristic historical viewpoints???

Please, I can not find difinitive teaching on the subject…even searching the web.

Its a bit mind blowing that Mother Church has never left us blowing in the wind and has proclaimed doctrine and dogma…but not on this subject?

Help!
Click to expand...
 
DENNYINMI said:
Obviously…and unfortunately, I am “caught up” (no pun here) in a discussion with our Protestant Brethren on the subject of “end times”…

It appears when I look up the teachings of some of the Early Church Fathers, Ireneaus, and so on…they had views on many things that we no longer hold to…example would be the views on a literal millennium…Catholic teaching does not say there is a literal mellennium…it is figurative and should be interpreted as infinity…However, that was not always the case in what was believed…

It appears St. Augustine cleared up much but not until the 4th Century.

Also, what is the Churchs’ actual teaching regarding the Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ??

Does it lean towards preterist or futuristic historical viewpoints???

Please, I can not find difinitive teaching on the subject…even searching the web.

Its a bit mind blowing that Mother Church has never left us blowing in the wind and has proclaimed doctrine and dogma…but not on this subject?

Help!
Click to expand...
This is a big subject and the best way of approaching it is to keep it simple. A small bit at a time.
When you say about the churchs’ teaching on the book of revelation …that …keeps it narrow. The book of revelation is only part of the whole story of what is going to happen before The lord Returns. Look at the Churchs’ teaching on the second coming of Christ.
 
Cardinal Bertone did a nice talk a few years back, at the opening of a Vatican art exhibit all about Book of Revelation art.

"In…the last book of Sacred Scripture… the seer John addressed the Churches of Asia - Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea - and in spirit, the entire Church, exhorting the disciples of Jesus to remain steadfast in the faith and not let themselves be either seduced or scared by the evil powers of this world – apparently overwhelming, but in fact doomed to failure.

The Book of Revelation, then, is not - as is often assumed - the ominous announcement of a catastrophic ending for humanity’s progress, but the grand announcement of the failure of the forces of hell, and of the mystery of the dead and risen Christ as salvation for the history and the cosmos.

Reading the Apocalypse, like the vision of the Last Judgement in the Sistine Chapel, gives, of course, a thrill in the soul. But it’s the thrill of ravishment, the majesty and wonderful mercy that we are meeting, not something bleak and desperate of fear and collapse. Those pages and these works of art do not want to scare us by showing us scenes of eternity: they want to, if anything, remind us of the life that we spend here on earth, and that we can make every day fruitful with the quality of our actions.

To read the announcement of the final resurrection in the Apocalypse is in itself a consolation and a form of justice. Do not forget that you can be just only in a world where the dead will rise and eventually every wound is healed, dry every tear, every speech interrupted again, every desire of good accomplished. The vision of the heavenly Jerusalem, the last section of the Apocalypse and the exhibition, in a sense, is also a logical need, a postulate of morality, and a prerequisite for it to make sense to speak of justice…"

There’s a lot of stuff you could read. Documents on Sacred Scripture. Documents on the Four Last Things. Documents, documents, documents. But you’re going to have to do research to find them, and you’re going to have to follow bibliographies and read footnotes and generally look around.
 
I am reading all of these replies and all I can say is WOW, and thank you so much to all of you.

And thank you too…to the non-Catholic that posted in here with advice…

I have used Scott Hahn to debate, there is an awesome wealth of information on a web site called book of revelation…defending the bride…but it is concerned with defending the Church against the accusation of the “Whore of Babylon” and did a beautiful job explaining the Old Testament Prophecies in relation to the symbolism by comparing Jerusalem to the New Testament Scripture, alot from Luke…and Matthew!

I’m quite frankly over my head.

If I we’re defending the Eucharist or the doctrine of (not) Once Saved Always Saved…I’d be swimming instead of sinking…

Our faith is rich…but Revelation is quite the “beast”…no pun here!

Currently within the debate the argument is when the Book was written. Before or after 70 AD…someone has stated within this debate to the preterist that if indeed it was written after that date…in the reign of Dominian, and not Nero…his theology is all washed up…

However Scott Hahn leans towards a partial preterism…by stating that indeed with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD…many of these prophesies we’re fulfilled…and details the destruction in detail to support the claim.

It however appears the Book was written with John exiled in Patmos towards the end of Dominian reign…which post dates the tribulation of 70 AD…

So Scott…Mr. Hahn sir…where are you now???

Like I said, I’m over my head…and do need to be concerned with being about the business of our Lord…

I will read some of the suggestions offered, and again I thank you!!! 👍
 
Scott Hahn has written a book about Revelation- it is the Feast of the Lamb. The wedding feast of us with the Lord.
 
DENNYINMI said:
I am reading all of these replies and all I can say is WOW, and thank you so much to all of you.

And thank you too…to the non-Catholic that posted in here with advice…

I have used Scott Hahn to debate, there is an awesome wealth of information on a web site called book of revelation…defending the bride…but it is concerned with defending the Church against the accusation of the “Whore of Babylon” and did a beautiful job explaining the Old Testament Prophecies in relation to the symbolism by comparing Jerusalem to the New Testament Scripture, alot from Luke…and Matthew!

I’m quite frankly over my head.

If I we’re defending the Eucharist or the doctrine of (not) Once Saved Always Saved…I’d be swimming instead of sinking…

Our faith is rich…but Revelation is quite the “beast”…no pun here!

Currently within the debate the argument is when the Book was written. Before or after 70 AD…someone has stated within this debate to the preterist that if indeed it was written after that date…in the reign of Dominian, and not Nero…his theology is all washed up…

However Scott Hahn leans towards a partial preterism…by stating that indeed with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD…many of these prophesies we’re fulfilled…and details the destruction in detail to support the claim.

It however appears the Book was written with John exiled in Patmos towards the end of Dominian reign…which post dates the tribulation of 70 AD…

So Scott…Mr. Hahn sir…where are you now???

Like I said, I’m over my head…and do need to be concerned with being about the business of our Lord…

I will read some of the suggestions offered, and again I thank you!!! 👍
Click to expand...
 
The trouble with advice,we all want to help and share our views. It becomes so confusing just like you said. God has said all SCRIPTURE HAS BEEN GIVEN BY HIM FOR UNDERSTANDING…so why not just pray this simple prayer…Lord open my understanding of your word. Let the Holy Spirit guide me unto your truth. Open the book and start reading.

The book explains its’ self in many ways.
In Chapter 1 The lord tells us Why the book was written. Who it is written to.

Revelation 1

1 This is the revelation that God gave to Jesus Christ. Jesus shows those who serve God what will happen soon. God made it known by sending his angel to his servant John

2 John gives witness to everything he saw. The things he gives witness to are God’s word and what Jesus Christ has said.

Keeping it simple Verse 1 and 2
This book is about revealing not hiding what is going to happen soon.
It is written to Gods People.
Who Is Speaking? Jesus Himself.
The Apostle John states… I am Gods Witness to what Jesus Has Said.

Verse 3
3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy. Blessed are those who hear it and think everything it says is important. The time when these things will come true is near.

This verse opens with a promise from The Lord Jesus. Anyone reading and understanding will receive a blessing from him.

Verse 4
I, John, am writing this letter.
I am sending it to the seven churches in Asia Minor.
May grace and peace come to you from the One who is, and who was, and who will come. May grace and peace come to you from the seven spirits who are in front of God’s throne.

This verse tells us who is writing …The Apostle John.
It is a single letter
It is addressed to seven churches
It has a promise from The Lord Jesus (May grace and peace come to you through my Words to you in this Letter)

Jesus is the One Who Is …He is Alive To-day…

He was … On the Earth and Died for Our Sins.

He will come … That is the message Christ is sending out to his churches.
Now a difficult bit. Who are the seven spirits who are in front of Gods Throne? How are they able to give the same promise as Jesus has just given? Why the number seven.

Lets look at this number seven first.The book of revelation is full of this number so God must be showing us something important about this number. When we search the scriptures we find this number is associated with completeness or fullness and this theme starts in Genesis. Remember God Rested on the seventh day because he had completed his work. The spirits are Fullness of God in the Person of The Holy Spirit. He can give you peace and grace also.

to-morrow Verse 5 6 and seven
 
I read what Dr. Hahn has written and I would say its always better to hear from other interpretations done by other people.
Dr. Hahn narrows the interpretations to Emperor Nero’s time, literal Jerusalem, and mass as it is celebrated in Roman Catholic church.

This was a revelation of Jesus Himself as opposed to the Antichrist who’d cunningly present himself as the true Christ.
The true believers are told to stand firm on Christ. The seven churches are judged and given a blessed promise if they remain faithful to the end. Thus the main characters are thus: Jesus, the Church (believers), & the Devil/Antichrist.

If we look at the book of Revelation from that perspective, we might be nearer to the original intention of it.
I wish to hear from many others.
 
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