Does the Church recognise marriadge as a sacrament when

[VeronicaRaphael]

In the Catholic Church marriage is the union between a man and a woman and it can never be broken. (Obviously in certain cases annulments and separations are allowed)

I know that if I couple are married in a registry office it is not a valid marriage.

Is marriage valid if the couple are married in a Christian church?? (Christian as in believers in Jesus Christ)

 

[Iron_Donkey]

A marriage between two (validly) baptized people, Catholic or not, is sacramental and indissoluble. A non-sacramental marriage may be dissoluble.

bostoncatholic.org/Offices-And-Services/Office-Detail.aspx?id=11870

“A marriage is sacramental if both of the ministers are baptized Christians (c. 1055). So conversely, if one or both of the parties is not baptized, the marriage is not sacramental. It is however a valid marriage. Through their consent the parties have brought about a union of husband and wife. This union is blest by God. Whether the union is between Muslims, Jews, Hindus or Buddhists.”

Note that “ministers” refers to the husband and wife in the above quote.

Also just to be a bit more precise on something you said, if a Catholic is married in a registry office (that is, without going through the Church, I suppose a Catholic might be able to get a dispensation to marry there although I do not know how likely that would be) it is not valid, but a non-Catholic marriage conducted in a registry office might be.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Interesting, I did not know this. Does that mean that the quote above does not apply to the East, or is it possible (though unlikely) that if an Eastern priest were to marry two non-Christians to each other that their marriage would be sacramental? Or perhaps does the Eastern ceremony require that the couple both be baptized in order for the sacrament to be valid?

 

[Elizium23]

A marriage between two (validly) baptized people, Catholic or not, is sacramental and indissoluble.

As long as it is consummated. A valid, sacramental, non-consummated marriage (ratus non consummatus) may be dissolved in certain circumstances.

The ceremony requires baptised Christians for it to be valid.

I think you mean “sacramental” instead of “valid” - a valid marriage does not require baptised Christians, and Catholics can marry non-Christians even in a Church ceremony before a Catholic minister - this results in a valid, natural marriage.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

As long as it is consummated. A valid, sacramental, non-consummated marriage (ratus non consummatus) may be dissolved in certain circumstances.

Right.

I think you mean “sacramental” instead of “valid” - a valid marriage does not require baptised Christians, and Catholics can marry non-Christians even in a Church ceremony before a Catholic minister - this results in a valid, natural marriage.

He was answering a question I asked about the Eastern ceremony, not talking about marriage in general.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

That’s interesting. I can see the reason behind the recommendation as well - in Latin Catholic theology either way would be fine so long as there is the appropriate dispensation. I am now curious as to how the East views the Western ceremony though - something else to read about when I have time (some how I never run out of things to read about).

 

[Elizium23]

He was answering a question I asked about the Eastern ceremony, not talking about marriage in general.

My statement stands whether you substitute “Catholics” with “Eastern Catholics” or with “Orthodox” - they are all permitted (with the proper dispensation) to marry non-Christians in church ceremonies, resulting in valid natural marriage.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

My statement stands whether you substitute “Catholics” with “Eastern Catholics” or with “Orthodox” - they are all permitted (with the proper dispensation) to marry non-Christians in church ceremonies, resulting in valid natural marriage.

Right. The issue was that I read that somewhere that “A marriage is sacramental if both of the ministers are baptized Christians (c. 1055).” But the East consider the minister to be the priest. So I asked if my statement applied in the East, or if the sacrament would be invalid because of lack of matter (or perhaps not be attempted, or some similar thing) in the Eastern view. I’m fairly certain neither of us meant to imply that that the marriage would be invalid, I was just seeking some further understanding of how the East views sacramentality (if that’s a word) of marriage.

 

[ChibiViolet]

If two non-Catholics marry in a non-Catholic church or a registry office, it is still valid, although of course non-sacramental. If one or both person is Catholic and they choose to marry this way than it’s not valid in the eyes of the Church.

 

[1ke]

In the Catholic Church marriage is the union between a man and a woman and it can never be broken. (Obviously in certain cases annulments and separations are allowed)

A valid, consummated marriage between the baptized can be dissolved only by the death of one of the spouses.

I know that if I couple are married in a registry office it is not a valid marriage.

This is not correct if you are referring to non-Catholics. Non Catholics marry validly when they marry civilly.

A Catholic can also validly marry in a civil ceremony if they are marrying a non-Catholic and receive a dispensation from form from their bishop.

Is marriage valid if the couple are married in a Christian church?? (Christian as in believers in Jesus Christ)

A marriage between two non-Catholics who marry before non-Catholic is valid. It is, however, no different than marrying before any other civil official. The non-Catholic minister is simply the civil witness.

A Catholic can also marry a non-Catholic validly in the non-Catholic’s place of worship by receiving a dispensation from form from their bishop.

 

[1ke]

If two non-Catholics marry in a non-Catholic church or a registry office, it is still valid, although of course non-sacramental.

This is not entirely correct. If both parties are baptized, it is indeed a sacramentl.

If one or both person is Catholic and they choose to marry this way than it’s not valid in the eyes of the Church.

Only if the Catholic has not received a dispensation from form. If they have, it is perfectly valid.

 

[VeronicaRaphael]

When I was referring to validity I was referring to it in the eyes of the church. Of course civilly if two people of no religion at all got married in a registry office that is technically a marriage in the eyes of the country(wherever), but in the eyes of the church it isn’t.

So if two people were married in a Christian church and then convert to Catholicism, is their marriage valid in the eyes of the church?

Are civil marriages valid as marriages as far as the church is concerned? (this is in the case of one of the individuals having been christened and the other not)

 

[1ke]

When I was referring to validity I was referring to it in the eyes of the church. Of course civilly if two people of no religion at all got married in a registry office that is technically a marriage in the eyes of the country(wherever), but in the eyes of the church it isn’t.

No, you misunderstood me. I also was referring to the Church.

The Catholic Church recognizes as VALID marriages betweenn non-Catholics that take place civilly, whether in a non-Christian religious ceremony or at a civil office.

So if two people were married in a Christian church and then convert to Catholicism, is their marriage valid in the eyes of the church?

Yes. Also if they married in the courthouse/registry office.

Are civil marriages valid as marriages as far as the church is concerned? (this is in the case of one of the individuals having been christened and the other not)

Yes.

 

[VeronicaRaphael]

Oh, okay. That’s something that I didn’t have a clue about. Thank-you for your your response

 

[Elizium23]

Also, two people in a valid, natural marriage can make it sacramental if they both become baptized. No convalidation or ceremony must be performed other than their baptism. When consummated it also becomes indissoluble.

 

[Vico]

Interesting, I did not know this. Does that mean that the quote above does not apply to the East, or is it possible (though unlikely) that if an Eastern priest were to marry two non-Christians to each other that their marriage would be sacramental? Or perhaps does the Eastern ceremony require that the couple both be baptized in order for the sacrament to be valid?

Both the Latin Catholic and the Eastern Catholic have the same sacraments. The couple create the matrimony and the priest blesses it. For Matrimony the absolute minimum is:

Proper consent and with no impediments
Approval of the Church (which for one case requires no minister yet is valid)
Two witnessesCCEO Canon 776 – §1. The matrimonial covenant, established by the Creator and ordered by His laws, by which a man and woman by an irrevocable personal consent establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the generation and education of the offspring.
§2. From the institution of Christ a valid marriage between baptized persons is by that very fact a sacrament, by which the spouses, in the image of an indefectible union of Christ with the Church, are united by God and, as it were, consecrated and strengthened by sacramental grace.
§3. The essential properties of marriage are unity and indissolubility, which in a marriage between baptized persons obtain a special firmness in virtue of the sacrament.

Canon 832 – §1. If one cannot have present or have access to a priest who is competent according to the norm of law without grave inconvenience, those intending to celebrate a true marriage can validly and licitly celebrate it before witnesses alone:
1° in danger of death;
2° outside the danger of death, as long as it is prudently foreseen that such circumstances will continue for a month.
§2. In either case, if another priest, even a non-Catholic one, is able to be present, inasmuch as it is possible he is to be called so that he can bless the marriage, without prejudice for the validity of a marriage in the presence only of the witnesses.
§3. If a marriage was celebrated in the presence only of witnesses, the spouses shall not neglect to receive the blessing of the marriage from a priest as soon as possible.