Does the church still beleive in original sin?

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I just came from mass and heard somethings from a visiting priest that bothered me. It may be that I am wrong so here is my situation:

In the homily the priest said that the church has rethought its position on the story of Adam and Eve and the fall of man. He stated that the church now believes that the story is a parable as opposed to historical (a position he said St Aquinas held, may be wrong on the saint as i didn’t have a notepad handy :D). He said the new theologians and the church no longer believe in original sin as Aquinas viewed it. i remember his saying “Not that the church doesn’t believe in it but I’m just trying to explain what the church now believes.” The homily was on baptism and what it did. He brought up Adam and eve because he said that it wasn’t because of original sin that we need salvation, but because of who humans are by nature. After mass i asked him if he could tell me where i could read the thoughts of the church and these theologians because i was confused by what he said.

He started by saying that he was a modern priest and he liked to keep up with what the church believes now not “way back then.” That really got me worried. He also said, “Did Adam and Eve really exist? Who knows.All the church says is we have two original parents.” In regards to original sin hes said “original sin… a baby is beautiful. What has he done?”

Anyway he said there are update pamphlets that are sent to every church that i assume covers doctrinal matters for priest to consider. Has anyone ever head of this priests position being put forth by theologians or the church. Does anyone know what “Updates” pamphlet he was referring to? He told me to ask our local priest and that he would be able to provide me with the “updates” pamphlet he was basing his homily on. So can any one help me with this?

From his statements i am just really confused as two if he believed Adam and Eve existed or if he even believed in original sin. I am hoping i just misunderstood him. Right now I just don’t know if he was mistaken or I am.

Thanks

Edgar
 
And you can point him to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, most recently published in the 20’th century where Original Sin is clearly stated as part of the faith.

CCC #397-401

Then tell the priest he now needs to go to confession himself for his attempt to lead the faithful astray, for self professed heresy (Modernism), and for denial of the faith. Basically this priest is excommunicated ipso-facto for his disbelief.

Ken
 
Suppression said:
I just came from mass and heard somethings from a visiting priest that bothered me. It may be that I am wrong so here is my situation:

In the homily the priest said that the church has rethought its position on the story of Adam and Eve and the fall of man. He stated that the church now believes that the story is a parable as opposed to historical (a position he said St Aquinas held, may be wrong on the saint as i didn’t have a notepad handy :D). He said the new theologians and the church no longer believe in original sin as Aquinas viewed it. i remember his saying “Not that the church doesn’t believe in it but I’m just trying to explain what the church now believes.” The homily was on baptism and what it did. He brought up Adam and eve because he said that it wasn’t because of original sin that we need salvation, but because of who humans are by nature. After mass i asked him if he could tell me where i could read the thoughts of the church and these theologians because i was confused by what he said.

He started by saying that he was a modern priest and he liked to keep up with what the church believes now not “way back then.” That really got me worried. He also said, “Did Adam and Eve really exist? Who knows.All the church says is we have two original parents.” In regards to original sin hes said “original sin… a baby is beautiful. What has he done?”

Anyway he said there are update pamphlets that are sent to every church that i assume covers doctrinal matters for priest to consider. Has anyone ever head of this priests position being put forth by theologians or the church. Does anyone know what “Updates” pamphlet he was referring to? He told me to ask our local priest and that he would be able to provide me with the “updates” pamphlet he was basing his homily on. So can any one help me with this?

From his statements i am just really confused as two if he believed Adam and Eve existed or if he even believed in original sin. I am hoping i just misunderstood him. Right now I just don’t know if he was mistaken or I am.

Thanks

Edgar
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Do you have his name? Ask your priest. Do a search on him on the internet.
 
kleary said:
And you can point him to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, most recently published in the 20’th century where Original Sin is clearly stated as part of the faith.

CCC #397-401

Then tell the priest he now needs to go to confession himself for his attempt to lead the faithful astray, for self professed heresy (Modernism), and for denial of the faith. Basically this priest is excommunicated ipso-facto for his disbelief.

Ken
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He actually did mention the Catechism, but only to say that the Catechism doesn’t have everything the church teaches.
 
Suppression said:
He started by saying that he was a modern priest and he liked to keep up with what the church believes now not “way back then.”
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"Hold firmly that your faith is identical with that of the ancients. Deny that and you dissolve the unity of the church." - St. Thomas Aquinas
 
Yes, the Church does.

There is an old dictum that I unfortunately cannot now find, but it goes something along the lines of “if it was true then it is true now, if it was false then it is false now”. Our faith cannot change, merely how we express it.
 
I know next to nothing about exactly what Aquinas had to say about original sin as opposed to what theologians have said since.

Surely, though, it is at least possible that there have been SOME changes in the theological view on original sin since Aquinas? Not that the concept has been done away in the slightest, just changed from how Aquinas saw it.

Great as he is and was, he’s not the last and only word on Catholic theology surely.
 
Suppression said:
… he said that it wasn’t because of original sin that we need salvation, but because of who humans are by nature.
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like what he preached was heretical. At the very least, it should be avoided, as it is contrary to Catholic doctrine.

The following are Catholic dogmas (infallible, immutable), which require the assent of faith of all Christ’s faithful:
  • Adam’s sin is transmitted to his posterity, not by imitation, but by descent.
  • Original sin is transmitted by natural generation.
  • In the state of original sin man is deprived of sanctifying grace and all that this implies, as well as of the preternatural gifts of integrity.
  • Souls who depart this life in the state of original sin are excluded from the Beatific Vision of God.
    [Source: Dr. Ludwig Ott, *Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma]
    According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
    CCC 389 “we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.”
CCC 406 “The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529) and at the Council of Trent (1546).”

CCC 1250 “Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.”
For more, see here:

**Consequences of Original Sin for All Humanity
**John Paul II, General Audience address
 
LilyM said:
I know next to nothing about exactly what Aquinas had to say about original sin as opposed to what theologians have said since.

Surely, though, it is at least possible that there have been SOME changes in the theological view on original sin since Aquinas? Not that the concept has been done away in the slightest, just changed from how Aquinas saw it.

Great as he is and was, he’s not the last and only word on Catholic theology surely.
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In what way do you think it could change? It is a pretty simple concept and not at all hard to understand/
 
Suppression said:
…He started by saying that he was a **modern priest **and he liked to keep up with what the church believes now not “way back then.” …
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Yet another “hippy” priest. Lovely.

How old is this fellow? My bet would be that he was 'hippy-boy" aged back in the “Spirit of Vatican II” days.
 
Yes, the Church truly believes that original sin exists. Anyone who tells you different is in error of Church belief and teaching.
Deacon Ed B
 
Yes it does, the Church still believes and teaches the same on original sin as it did 1000 years ago and before.

Now it might be sloppy language to say that we understand it differently. As that doesn’t mean it changes or there is room for change of doctrine what that can mean is this.

We express it differently to share it more effectively. This is misunderstood and abused often these days to imply that the faith changes, but no it never changes. To say it changes is about as stupid as saying that 2+2=4 changes with culture and fashion. Now if I use apples to show a child that 2+2=4 and then use numbers to show it to someone older it doesn’t change but the method or how we understand the truth has changed.

We may find new ways to express it such as even using this forum to communicate the faith effectively and quickly. This is a new way of expressing the faith, also we might take a truth of the faith and expresss it in a way so that non-catholics could understand it better. This should never compromise the faith but unfortunately often this happens and the faith is expressed in a wishy washy or heretical fashion.

He might be reading Catholic Update which is sometimes good sometimes pretty bad. I would stick with the Catechism it is a bit more faithful than Catholic Update.

God Bless
Scylla
 
itsjustdave1988 said:
Sounds to me like what he preached was heretical. At the very least, it should be avoided, as it is contrary to Catholic doctrine.

The following are Catholic dogmas (infallible, immutable), which require the assent of faith of all Christ’s faithful:
  • Adam’s sin is transmitted to his posterity, not by imitation, but by descent.
  • Original sin is transmitted by natural generation.
  • In the state of original sin man is deprived of sanctifying grace and all that this implies, as well as of the preternatural gifts of integrity.
  • Souls who depart this life in the state of original sin are excluded from the Beatific Vision of God.
    [Source: Dr. Ludwig Ott, *Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma
Click to expand...
]
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CCC 389 “we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.”

CCC 406 “The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529) and at the Council of Trent (1546).”

CCC 1250 “Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.”
For more, see here:

**Consequences of Original Sin for All Humanity
**John Paul II, General Audience address

Thats your interpretation of dogma but maybe others have a different interpretation since dogmas can be interpreted 😉
 
napad said:
Thats your interpretation of dogma but maybe others have a different interpretation since dogmas can be interpreted 😉
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Yes they can, and the job of doing it in a binding manner is the Magisterium, who’s interpretation Dave has provided.
 
What gets me is where the Pastor is when these things happen. A missionary priest comes and preaches heresy from his pulpit, and where’s the guy who’s supposed to guard his flock against that kind of stuff?
 
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