Does the Church teach you don't have to necessarily believe in Jesus to be saved?

[James248]

I’m asking because of a conversation I had with, what I believe to be, a knowledgeable Catholic where they stated that salvation doesn’t necessarily come by faith in Jesus. I find that troubling, because I do believe that you have to believe in him and not just acknowledge that Jesus is the ‘source’ of salvation. So, I’m trying to find out the correct Catholic teaching.

I struggle with thinking that faiths that don’t believe that Jesus is who he says he is will somehow have eternal life. They are denying Jesus. As an example:

John 12:48
48 Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day,

It seems that cripture is pretty clear in many places that salvation ONLY comes through believing in Jesus. So, I’m trying to understand what the Church teaches. Thanks!

Of course the Church teaches that you need to believe in Jesus to be saved.

CCC 161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’"43

The next time this “knowledgeable Catholic” says this to you, reference this quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[Bookcat]

I’m asking because of a conversation I had with, what I believe to be, a knowledgeable Catholic where they stated that salvation doesn’t necessarily come by faith in Jesus. I find that troubling, because I do believe that you have to believe in him and not just acknowledge that Jesus is the ‘source’ of salvation. So, I’m trying to find out the correct Catholic teaching.

I struggle with thinking that faiths that don’t believe that Jesus is who he says he is will somehow have eternal life. They are denying Jesus. As an example:

John 12:48
48 Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day,

It seems that there are many places in scripture that state salvation comes ONLY through believing in Jesus. So, I’m trying to understand what the Church teaches. Thanks!

Yes one is to have Faith in Jesus Christ the Lord.

Now can there be cases - say of persons who through no fault of their own do not know him (and thus cannot have explicit Faith …Faith in the normal way) - and yet God reach them in some way known to God? Yes. They too though if saved - would be saved by Jesus. If they are - they are not saved “by” good will or good works etc. But by Christ. In a way that is not known by us.

We though are to propose Jesus to all so all may be saved and come to know him and true life in him and his Church.

 

[Bookcat]

So, I’m trying to understand what the Church teaches. Thanks!

"…we must maintain that the way of salvation always passes through Christ, and therefore the Church and her missionaries have the task of making him known and loved in every time, place and culture. Apart from Christ “there is no salvation.” As Peter proclaimed before the Sanhedrin at the very start of the apostolic preaching: “There is no other name in the whole world given to men by which we are to be saved” (Acts 4:12).

For those too who through no fault of their own do not know Christ and are not recognized as Christians, the divine plan has provided a way of salvation. As we read in the Council’s Decree Ad Gentes, we believe that “God in ways known to himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel” to the faith necessary for salvation (AG 7). Certainly, the condition “inculpably ignorant” cannot be verified nor weighed by human evaluation, but must be left to the divine judgment alone. For this reason, the Council states in the Constitution Gaudium et Spes that in the heart of every man of good will, “Grace works in an unseen way… The Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery” (GS 22).

It is important to stress that the way of salvation taken by those who do not know the Gospel is not a way apart from Christ and the Church. The universal salvific will is linked to the one mediation of Christ. “God our Savior…wants all men to be saved and come to know the truth. And the truth is this: God is one. One also is the mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all” (1 Tim 2:3-6). Peter proclaimed this when he said: “There is no salvation in anyone else” and called Jesus the “cornerstone” (Acts 4:11-12), emphasizing Christ’s necessary role at the basis of the Church."

~ Pope St. John Paul II

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19950531en.html

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Yes one is to have Faith in Jesus Christ the Lord.

Now can there be cases - say of persons who through no fault of their own do not know him (and thus cannot have explicit Faith …Faith in the normal way) - and yet God reach them in some way known to God? Yes. They too though if saved - would be saved by Jesus. If they are - they are not saved “by” good will or good works etc. But by Christ. In a way that is not known by us.

We though are to propose Jesus to all so all may be saved and come to know him and true life in him and his Church.

Just be careful … when arriving at the Pearly Gates … “how was I supposed to know?” … may not work. “Well, the Old Testament says women are supposed to shave their heads.” … I’m sure Jesus has heard it all before.

Being “cute” may impress your friends.

Vincible and invincible ignorance … and all that. Yes, read the Catechism … which has the repository of knowledge. Even the Baltimore Catechism is extremely helpful.

But Jesus is INFINITE and He is THE judge.

AND He knows everything in your heart.

You will need more than a canon lawyer.

 

[thistle]

I’m sorry, but how is this at all helpful?!

I didn’t know that “Thistle” of CAF knew what is in the hearts & minds of all the posters here.

Obviously, this person has some questions/doubts about what the faith he was baptized into believes. Maybe instead of condemning him to Hell for all eternity, you could give him some constructive advice, like to see a priest.

Just a thought.

The OP asked a question. I answered it. A Catholic who does not believe in Jesus and dies not believing in Jesus goes immediately to Hell.
There is too much pussyfooting around trying not to upset people. I much prefer plain speaking and to the point.

 

[Bookcat]

A Catholic who does not believe in Jesus and dies not believing in Jesus goes immediately to Hell.

That is not necessarily the case…

Yes one is to believe in Jesus - yes in him is salvation…true life.

Yes rejecting him can lead one to the choice of hell.

One can imagine various scenarios though - and God would rather know them - where it is not necessarily the case (say a person is baptized but later never hears the real Gospel but hears only extremely distorted ideas about Jesus …etc etc). God will be the one to know.

 

[DebChris]

That is not necessarily the case…

Yes one is to believe in Jesus - yes in him is salvation…true life.

Yes rejecting him can lead one to the choice of hell.

One can imagine various scenarios though - and God would rather know them - where it is not necessarily the case (say a person is baptized but later never hears the real Gospel but hears only extremely distorted ideas about Jesus …etc etc). God will be the one to know.

The way I have most often heard it expressed it is that God does not reject us. It is we who reject God.
There are many people who have only received the Sacraments as a matter of social ritual. It does not take away the indelible mark they have received. It is however, like receiving a bicycle, putting it a closet and never learning how to ride. Too many people have put their wrapped gifts on the upper shelves of closets, and they have never been opened.
This phenomenon of poor catechism was known long before Vatican II. A small group of men in Spain started the first Cursilla, but their efforts were postponed until after WWII. Thankfully we have the Holy Spirit working in the Church, working through Cursillo and other programs to help bring the Gospel to those who have not heard the Word proclaimed by the actions of members of the Body of the Christ.

There is but one Judge. Thankfully it is not I.
Yes, “Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.” How He decides to set up the road signs that will lead people to the correct road is not up to me. What comes to mind at the moment is the parable of the farmer who sows seeds. Some of those seeds fall on rocky ground, and some are choked by weeds, while others fall onto fertile ground where they bear fruit. Could it be that part of our role as followers of Christ is to help clear the path so that seeds that might have been choked by weeds are not? To not put a stumbling block in front of our brother that would keep him from accepting Christ ?

 

[Oneofthewomen]

The OP asked a question. I answered it. A Catholic who does not believe in Jesus and dies not believing in Jesus goes immediately to Hell.
There is too much pussyfooting around trying not to upset people. I much prefer plain speaking and to the point.

Plain speaking and to the point is one thing. So long as it is the truth.
And you cannot say that someone is going to hell. Period, full stop.

You can say hell is a possibility, and that rejection of dogma can lead to hell, but your answer was not completely truthful and lacking any sense of compassion. It is this type of legalistic, holier than thou attitude that drives people away. We are called to life up our fallen brothers & sister, not beat them while they are down.

 

[thistle]

Plain speaking and to the point is one thing. So long as it is the truth.
And you cannot say that someone is going to hell. Period, full stop.

You can say hell is a possibility, and that rejection of dogma can lead to hell, but your answer was not completely truthful and lacking any sense of compassion. It is this type of legalistic, holier than thou attitude that drives people away. We are called to life up our fallen brothers & sister, not beat them while they are down.

You cannot say a specific individual goes to Hell but you CAN DEFINITELY say objectively that anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell. That is an infallible teaching of the Church.

 

[abucs]

Pope Francis is not saying that doing good works can merit salvation, but that in doing good works a person, even a current atheist, can find themselves drawing closer to God and conversion.

Those who seek Good and Truth seek God. Those who fully seek such things and are open to it, but who cannot be held responsible for their lack of knowledge or faith in God and Jesus Christ, can find themselves still saved by grace.

 

[meltzerboy]

The OP asked a question. I answered it. A Catholic who does not believe in Jesus and dies not believing in Jesus goes immediately to Hell.
There is too much pussyfooting around trying not to upset people. I much prefer plain speaking and to the point.

How can you be so sure that “A Catholic who does not believe in Jesus and dies not believing in Jesus goes immediately to Hell”? Where does the Catechism of the Catholic Church make this unequivocal statement? If that Catholic led a good life, or perhaps converted to another religion, might not G-d in His infinite mercy save him?

 

[Wesrock]

How can you be so sure that “A Catholic who does not believe in Jesus and dies not believing in Jesus goes immediately to Hell”? Where does the Catechism of the Catholic Church make this unequivocal statement? If that Catholic led a good life, or perhaps converted to another religion, might not G-d in His infinite mercy save him?

No one can live a “good enough” life to merit eternal life. Maybe relatively good or great compared to some others, but never good enough. Christians believe that only Jesus lived that perfect life, and it’s only by following Jesus (as a sort of Torah, if I may make that comparison) that his merits can be applied to you. It’s not just about following, though; Catholics understand there to be a real participation in Jesus and of Jesus in them. To quote Saint Paul, “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.” It’s only by this, not just association, but participation in the perfect man who is a bridge between God and man that we truly participate in the divine life of God.

The Church recognizes that God will have mercy on those who are invincibly ignorant but who do their best to seek God (as truth and goodness), which can include those who have never heard the gospel or even those who, through no fault of their own, ended up rejecting the faith on the basis of poor or incorrect teachings. Some Catholics take a very, very broad view of invinvible ignorance such that it nearly approaches universal salvation, while others take a narrower view. It’s not about the good works so much as it is about entrusting yourself to God. Good works are a part of that, but are not equivalent to it.

 

[DebChris]

Simply put, we are saved by Grace. That grace is found in the Cross of Jesus Christ. All fall short and are in need of Grace. We are strengthened throughout life by the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, and given to each of us by virtue of the Sacraments of Holy Mother Church. In His final discourse, Our Lord reminds us that we in are the world, but not of the world. “He who abides in love abides in God and God in Him.” Just as the Israelites were God’s chosen people, the promise of the New Covenant is “I will be your God and you will be my people.”
In describing Himself, Our Lord described Himself as the Good Shepherd. “I know my sheep and my sheep know me.” As God’s people, we know Him in who we believe, the God we worship.
I like the definition I once heard of worship–to place yourself at the service of.
Why would I place myself at the service of a God I do not know?
There is only one deity who offers a personal relationship with the people who choose to serve Him. Not only does He no longer call us merely “servants,” but friends. He has sent a counselor, a consoler. He has given us His Holy Spirit, dwelling within us, convicting of us sin, and keeping us on the Path that leads to the Promised Land.

 

[Genesis315]

Faith in Jesus is absolutely necessary for salvation:

161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’"43

What we do acknowledge is “in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him” (CCC 848) (see also Vatican II Ad Gentes 7).

Pope St. John Paul II made this point well in the following audience. After discussing the fact that there are many ignorant of the Gospel, he says:
St. John Paul II:

What I have said above, however, does not justify the relativistic position of those who maintain that a way of salvation can be found in any religion, even independently of faith in Christ the Redeemer, and that interreligious dialogue must be based on this ambiguous idea. That solution to the problem of the salvation of those who do not profess the Christian creed is not in conformity with the Gospel. Rather, we must maintain that the way of salvation always passes through Christ, and therefore the Church and her missionaries have the task of making him known and loved in every time, place and culture. Apart from Christ “there is no salvation.” As Peter proclaimed before the Sanhedrin at the very start of the apostolic preaching: “There is no other name in the whole world given to men by which we are to be saved” (Acts 4:12).

For those too who through no fault of their own do not know Christ and are not recognized as Christians, the divine plan has provided a way of salvation. As we read in the Council’s Decree Ad Gentes, we believe that “God in ways known to himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel” to the faith necessary for salvation (AG 7).

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP950531.htm

 

[PJM]

I’m curious to know if the Church actually teaches/believes that you don’t have to necessarily believe in Jesus in order to be saved? I realize that Jesus is the ‘source’ of our salvation, but I’m confused about having to believe. Thanks!

John.14: [6] Jesus said to him,** “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.”**

ACTS 4: [10] be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well. [11] This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, but which has become the head of the corner. [12] And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

John 17: 17-20 "[17] Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. **[18] As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. **
[19] And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. [20] "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,

Matt.19 Verses 17 "[17] And he [JESUS] said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. **If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” **

This clearly and precisely answers your question. Amen

Patrick

GBY

 

[corsair]

Spot on Patrick.

 

[PJM]

spot on patrick.

thanks

gby

 

[ChurchSoldier]

For goodness’ sake, if you are Christian and have not read the Gospel according to John, log off and go read it.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 **Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. **

John 3:36 **Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
**

PAX

 

[Della]

For goodness’ sake, if you are Christian and have not read the Gospel according to John, log off and go read it.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 **Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. **

John 3:36 **Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
**

PAX

Of course, we aren’t Fundamentalists who take it upon ourselves to determine doctrine based on our personal reading of Scripture. The Church has told us in the Catechism what we are to believe regarding the possible salvation of non-Christians. That reference was posted early on in this thread. I’ll post it again for everyone’s benefit:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

The Church does not interpret “whoever does not believe stands condemned” to mean those who have never heard the Gospel.–if that is what you are trying to say merely by citing these verses. Jesus was talking to a fellow Jew. He meant that those who know they ought to believe and reject the Christ will stand condemned.

The Church takes the whole of Sacred Tradition into account when determining doctrinal truth, not this verse or that verse only.

 

[neweggs]

Jesus , is The Truth The way and life everlasting. AMEN