Does the concept of "leave and cleave" apply to men and women equally?

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I’m seeing this woman and we’re discussing marriage. She has expressed that she completely wants to marry me. We are long distance (7 hours apart) and I live 6 hours from my family and she lives 1 and half from hers. I’ve lived away from home for much longer whereas she has only been on her own for just under a year. We’ve known each other for about two years and we’re very serious, but I feel like she thinks her family will and should always have the priority because they’re more serious about the Catholic faith than mine is.

I’m open to live near where she is currently located because it’s a nice place, but really I do not want to be any closer to her family than mine. Honestly, I want to be far from both families and I have expressed the importance of our nuclear family unit as being placed above our attachments to our families, but she seems really committed to her family – especially her mother. I have tried to be encouraging of her relationship with her family, but I just can’t help but feel like I’m competing with them and that this attitude of hers is wrong.

If the bible says “a man must leave his family and cling to his wife”, does this logic apply to women too? She has argued on several occasions that it’s different from men to women. I’m honestly at a loss…
 
You’re looking for a religious justification for your personal preference here, because it’s just sounding like your preference is different from her preference.

This lady only moved out on her family a year ago. She is attached to her family.
You on the other hand live 6 hours from your family and have lived apart longer and for whatever reason you are not as attached to your family and strongly want somebody who also wishes to be distant from family.

The woman having an attachment to her family and especially to her mother does not sound like a terrible thing the way you describe it. She is one and a half hours from her family. It’s not like she’s over at Mom’s every day for hours or Mom is at her house constantly. Plus she is new to being on her own. Plus, some people just like to hang out with their families. It doesn’t necessarily mean they haven’t “left father and mother”.

If having to put up with what sounds to be her reasonable attachment to her mom is going to be such a stumbling block for you, break up with her and look for somebody who, like you, lives a great distance from their family and doesn’t want to spend much time with them.
 
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dailymassgoer said:
I have expressed the importance of our nuclear family unit as being placed above our attachments to our families
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You don’t just marry the woman, you marry into the family. If you are not close with your own family that is sad, but it is not fair to ask her to in effect divorce herself from her family.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
If having to put up with what sounds to be her reasonable attachment to her mom is going to be such a stumbling block for you, break up with her and look for somebody who, like you, lives a great distance from their family and doesn’t want to spend much time with them.
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Exactly.

Sorry, but leaving your parents and “cleaving” to your spouse does not mean having to be distant from the family.

That concept is something new to our world. Just think of how many times cousins or brothers are mentioned in the bible. Remember the verse about Peter’s mother in law. Family is important.
 
If you have kids, it’ll be really helpful to have more than the nuclear family nearby. People commonly living far away from their extended family is very new–it wasn’t the case in Biblical times or most Christian societies. Personally, I think we (and especially kids) suffer for it. But in this day and age, sometimes we have to do what we have to do to get by.

When you marry, there is certainly some change in the relationship dynamic with ones’ parents (and this is what the Bible is getting at), but that doesn’t mean there’s some minimum distance or maximum amount of time you can share with them. Working out what is appropriate for you both is part of every relationship. There’s no brightline rule.
 
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Unless there is abuse in the family, living close to one’s extended family is a blessing. When kids are little they get to know their grandparents and cousins, there are people close by who will pinch hit to help in sickness and emergencies, the good times are celebrated by all.

There is nothing in Scripture that says we must live in tiny individual family unit.
 
dailymassgoer said:
I’m seeing this woman and we’re discussing marriage. She has expressed that she completely wants to marry me. We are long distance (7 hours apart) and I live 6 hours from my family and she lives 1 and half from hers. I’ve lived away from home for much longer whereas she has only been on her own for just under a year. We’ve known each other for about two years and we’re very serious, but I feel like she thinks her family will and should always have the priority because they’re more serious about the Catholic faith than mine is.

I’m open to live near where she is currently located because it’s a nice place, but really I do not want to be any closer to her family than mine. Honestly, I want to be far from both families and I have expressed the importance of our nuclear family unit as being placed above our attachments to our families, but she seems really committed to her family – especially her mother. I have tried to be encouraging of her relationship with her family, but I just can’t help but feel like I’m competing with them and that this attitude of hers is wrong.

If the bible says “a man must leave his family and cling to his wife”, does this logic apply to women too? She has argued on several occasions that it’s different from men to women. I’m honestly at a loss…
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Seems like a decision to make based on a number of factors, not just who should have to live farther from family.

For example, my wife and I live in the DC area. I loathe the DC area and literally have a countdown to the day we’ll move away (720 days). But we’re living here for now because my wife is a policy adviser for the administration, and she probably only has until inauguration 2021 to add administration, and maybe some White House, experience to her resume. The important thing is we both agree that this is the place we need to live right now, even if I hate the place.

Y’all need to come to an agreement along these lines. Find a way to agree on where to live based on what’s truly best for you, not based on an argument about who should have to leave family behind.
 
Thank you, brother. I think your response was the only fair one…lol. It’s just hard because my family isn’t perfect and they’re not as serious about the faith. But I still have a responsibility to be kind and close with them. And I do love my parents very much. My mother was recently diagnosed with kidney disease and I told my girlfriend about it. She seemed somewhat caring, but it was a little forced and knowing her well, I know that she struggles with compassion.

Based, on this news though, I feel it’s important for me to work more on my relationship with my mother and to work to be kind and close with my family. My older sister who was originally a fallen away Catholic returned to the faith and got all of her children the sacraments. My girlfriend just really did not seem to view this a significant whatsoever…lol

I know her faults and I know mine and we have a long and complex history together. I know that we’re not perfect and that our relationship isn’t perfect. But I’m willing to deal with known differences and to bridge the gap because I treasure my friendship with her and our romantic history. We both really love our Catholic faith, and I have found a lot of fulfillment in coming closer to God with her, but I’ve noticed this little reservation on her part involving family.

For instance, If she and I are visiting together, and my sister calls, she gets annoyed if I talk with my sister. It starts off subtle and continues to grow to the point that I just preemptively avoid talking with my sister when my girlfriend is around. And the same pattern has taken place with several other of my family members. This past Easter, I was with her family during the Easter supper and my parents called. I didn’t answer the phone. My family got miffed and I returned their call later.

However, two days later, I was with still at her family’s house and we left a little early. She had this guilty sense about leaving a little earlier than planned after what I considered to be a generous three day visit with them. I just really have placed a lot of value on her and I have worked hard to demonstrate my devotion to her, but I feel like it’s time for me to invite her to visit my family and or to put aside some time to spend a holiday or two with them.

How can I respectfully introduce my desire to spend more time with my family. I know that these forums usually trend toward just saying, “Oh you know you should just break up.” But it’s just way more complex than that. I feel like I could get my girlfriend to come around, I just get so nervous around this issue, because it’s one that I care so much about and I don’t want to wind up in a power play type of stand off where we’re both just playing chicken with who’s willing to ditch their own family.

Really, my question is, is she right about the gender thing? And am I being unreasonable by wanting her to be a little more encouraging of my relationship with my family (as I have so clearly done with her)?
 
No, her relationship with her mom is not a stumbling block for me. As I stated, I have been very encouraging of that relationship. My question and my concern is, is she correct in saying that men are primarily called to abandon their family. Does this not apply to women as much?
 
No, the question is, does Genesis 2 24 apply to men only as if it were taken literal or does it apply to women as well?

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Is she right in saying that it’s different and that it’s more understandable for a woman to want to remain close with her family. I’m genuinely curious because I accept that her family is more serious about their faith, but I would like to live somewhere in the middle and I think there is some wisdom to introducing a little bit of fairness.
 
As some other posters have said, don’t used this to justify where you want to live. In my case happenstance put use where we are at. My spouse comes from a good but emotionally entangled one. All three of the children ended up where they have because of jobs for the most part. The distance has done them well, the siblings have slowly been working towards relational stability. My mother-in-law a little less so. She is helpful and I don’t mind her being over, but she brings along the drama when she visits, sometimes for a week or more because of the distance she lives away.

My family live about 15-60 minutes away. Close enough for a little space but also we can easily get together for dinner or have grandma come and babysit. My family has it issues like any, but we all have decent relations with each other and don’t need large distances to handle each other.

So, I’m hoping my experience can inform yours better. You seem to not have much use for your family, where as she does. I lived 1.5 hours from my extended family growing up, it’s not a distance where anyone just pops over. But you can also plan to get together without tons of issues. This is a decision you have to make equally. Sometimes it’s not just family that determines location but employment. You’ve got to figure out where your needs and wants exist and plan from there
 
No one’s answering the gender question here. Should I take the genesis verse literally or can it be applied to her family as well. She often invokes this verse and has told me that it only applies to me because I am the man – she says it’s different for her and that in fact, it’s important for her to remain close with her family as we get married.

I am all for that, but why is it a problem for HER, if I want to want to remain close with my family due to my mother’s illness and my parents being older. And when I say I want to be close with them, I’m not just referring to geography, I just want to keep a good relationship over the distance, but she seems even averse to that.

Her family is a good Catholic family, but it is not perfect and I feel it would be healthy for both of us to be far physically and emotionally at least, in the early days of us establishing our marriage. I realize these are necessary conversations, but it just feels like her priorities are out of wack. I want us both to be close to God first, to each other second, and then close with our families and not in any other order.

I hope this makes sense.
 
dailymassgoer said:
No, the question is, does Genesis 2 24 apply to men only as if it were taken literal or does it apply to women as we
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We are not required to take Genesis (and many other passages) as literal. There was much poetic and allegorical language used in Scripture.

We don’t have to be young earth 7 literal days creationists, we can see this passage as figurative.

In fact, during the time when Christ was on earth, the general practice was for a woman to leave her familial homestead when she married and to move into her father-in-law’s familial homestead. She became a member of that household now. That was cultural, not some sort of spiritual legalism.

As someone said above, do not ask your bride to “divorce” her family. That is simply cruel.
 
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Here’s a helpful proverb:

A son is a son til he gets a wife, but a daughter is a daughter all her life.
 
PJH_74 said:
This is a decision you have to make equally. Sometimes it’s not just family that determines location but employment. You’ve got to figure out where your needs and wants exist and plan from there
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Thank you!! As she and I discussed things, this was where my frustration occurred. If I’m honest, I don’t mind relocating to where she is because of her job, and because I think it is a good place to raise a family. My issues is with when she says it’s because of her family and remaining close to them. I think they’re good people and all, but my family are good people too and I’m afraid my parents won’t be around much longer. I am not perfect, but I am a strong and capable Christian man and I don’t require assistance from either of our families.

It was when she said she want to remain where she is expressly because of her family, that I got upset.
 
I’m not asking her to do that all. In fact, I’ve been very encouraging of her relationship with them. But we’ve already spent a generous amount of time with them and I think it’s time to start focusing on our own future/potential family.

You marry into the family, yes. However, you are beholden to your spouse first. Matrimoney is the only sacrament administered by the lay people. We act as ministers to each other for this sacred covenant. We can and should remain close to family, but we should never place those attachments above the spousal obligation of fidelity.
 
Okay…lol. I’ll take that to mean you agree with her? Is that biblical do you think?
 
Well, wouldn’t it be nice for your kids to know ANY of their grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles? Really know them, as opposed to seeing them a couple times a year?
You may think you don’t need assistance, but wait until you sure could use a grandparent to babysit sometime, or even watch the kids over a weekend. My family is very isolated from all of our extended family, and it’s not easy.
 
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It’s just human nature. Psychology. 😉
 
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