Does the Extraordinary Form Bind Laypeople to 1962 Regulations?

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Most of the people I know who attend the EF already follow the 3 hour Communion fast, and AFAIK, everyone at our parish still observes the Friday abstinence throughout the year. I don’t think you’d see much, if any, change if this was implemented.

I’d like to see the Catholic Church as a whole go back to the 1962 expectations and the 1917 Code, and then see what would happen. Now THAT would be interesting.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think going back to the 1917 Code would achieve?

 

[Chatter163]

While permission for evening Masses was given in 1953 by Ven. Pius XII in Christus Dominus, this did not envision what is today commonly called a Vigil Mass, but is more properly called an anticipated Mass. Those did not come into being until the early 1970s, after the promulgation of the new missal and kalendar. As has been stated here, this was left up to the local ordinary, and in some dioceses (thought not many, IME) these Saturday evening Masses for Sunday did not happen until the new code of canon law came out in 1983.

 

[Vico]

While permission for evening Masses was given in 1953 by Ven. Pius XII in Christus Dominus, this did not envision what is today commonly called a Vigil Mass, but is more properly called an anticipated Mass. Those did not come into being until the early 1970s, after the promulgation of the new missal and kalendar. As has been stated here, this was left up to the local ordinary, and in some dioceses (thought not many, IME) these Saturday evening Masses for Sunday did not happen until the new code of canon law came out in 1983.

Just adding a reference to your post, dating to 1988, from CDW: Paschalis Sollemnitatis, commenting on two kinds of anticipation.However, in some areas where initially the reform of the Easter Vigil was received enthusiastically, it would appear that with the passage of time this enthusiasm has begun to wane. The very concept of the vigil has almost come to be forgotten in some places with the result that it is celebrated as if it were an evening Mass, in the same way and at the same time as the Mass celebrated on Saturday evening in anticipation of the Sunday.
…

1. The Celebration of Easter is prolonged throughout the Easter season. The fifty days from Easter Sunday to Pentecost Sunday are celebrated as one feast day, the “great Sunday.”[105]
2. The Sundays of this season are regarded as Sundays of Easter, and so termed, and they have precedence over all feasts of the Lord and over all solemnities. Solemnities that fall on one of these Sundays are anticipated on the Saturday.[106] Celebrations in honor of the Blessed Virgin Mary or the saints which fall during the week may not be transferred to one of these Sundays.[107]
3. Cf. General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar, n. 22.
4. Cf. “ibid.”, nn. 5, 23.107. Cf. “ibid”., n. 58.
   ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWEASTR.htm

 

[FrDavid96]

The term “anticipated Mass” is a misnomer. That term was used, and did apply, before the 1983 Code.

Since 1983, there is no such thing as an “anticipated Mass” on Saturday evening. The Mass on Saturday evening is, in every way, the Mass of Sunday.

St. John Paul the Great made this clear in Dies Domini, which I often reference here.

49…Propterea Missae liturgia nonnumquam «praefestivae» appellatae, quae vero reapse pleno iure «festiva» est, dominici diei est, instante etiam celebrantis officio ut homiliam sacram habeat et cum fidelibus precationem universalem absolvat.
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_lt.html

Some people think that they know better than St. John Paul when he was speaking as Supreme Pontiff.

Perhaps the good Pope should have consulted them before he wrote such a glaring error in his Apostolic Letter and before he promulgated the 1983 Code of Canon Law?

 

[Vico]

The term “anticipated Mass” is a misnomer. That term was used, and did apply, before the 1983 Code.

Since 1983, there is no such thing as an “anticipated Mass” on Saturday evening. The Mass on Saturday evening is, in every way, the Mass of Sunday.

St. John Paul the Great made this clear in Dies Domini, which I often reference here. 49…Propterea Missae liturgia nonnumquam «praefestivae» appellatae, quae vero reapse pleno iure «festiva» est, dominici diei est, instante etiam celebrantis officio ut homiliam sacram habeat et cum fidelibus precationem universalem absolvat.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_lt.html

Some people think that they know better than St. John Paul when he was speaking as Supreme Pontiff.

Perhaps the good Pope should have consulted them before he wrote such a glaring error in his Apostolic Letter and before he promulgated the 1983 Code of Canon Law?

The Congregation for Divine Worship does use the word anticipation with regard to the Mass, even since the promulgation of the 1983 CIC, as was done January 16, 1988, with Paschalis Sollemnitatis, item 3.
The very concept of the vigil has almost come to be forgotten in some places with the result that it is celebrated as if it were an evening Mass, in the same way and at the same time as the Mass celebrated on Saturday evening in anticipation of the Sunday.

 

[ProVobis]

The Congregation for Divine Worship does use the word anticipation with regard to the Mass, even since the promulgation of the 1983 CIC, as was done January 16, 1988, with Paschalis Sollemnitatis, item 3.
The very concept of the vigil has almost come to be forgotten in some places with the result that it is celebrated as if it were an evening Mass, in the same way and at the same time as the Mass celebrated on Saturday evening in anticipation of the Sunday.

But that discusses the Easter Vigil, which had traditionally been celebrated as such beginning on the Saturday evening, with the Mass said as part of the service.
The word vigil may be confusing here.

 

[FrDavid96]

The Congregation for Divine Worship does use the word anticipation with regard to the Mass, even since the promulgation of the 1983 CIC, as was done January 16, 1988, with Paschalis Sollemnitatis, item 3.
The very concept of the vigil has almost come to be forgotten in some places with the result that it is celebrated as if it were an evening Mass, in the same way and at the same time as the Mass celebrated on Saturday evening in anticipation of the Sunday.

First, it’s not unusual to that so soon after the 1983 Code, the older vocabulary might still be used, even though the vocabulary itself had become obsolete by that time.

Second, the document is not defining anything about the typical Saturday evening Mass. It’s making a statement about the time of the Easter Vigil Mass, to clarify that it must be later than the time for the Sunday Mass on Saturday evening.

The Sunday Mass on Saturday evening is the Mass of Sunday. “It is the Day of the Lord.” (JP II) We do not anticipate that which has already begun.

 

[adrift]

On a side not, Pope Pius XII reduced the fast to 3 hours in 1957.

Are you sure? Could it have been earlier say 1955?

 

[Vico]

First, it’s not unusual to that so soon after the 1983 Code, the older vocabulary might still be used, even though the vocabulary itself had become obsolete by that time.

Second, the document is not defining anything about the typical Saturday evening Mass. It’s making a statement about the time of the Easter Vigil Mass, to clarify that it must be later than the time for the Sunday Mass on Saturday evening.

The Sunday Mass on Saturday evening is the Mass of Sunday. “It is the Day of the Lord.” (JP II) We do not anticipate that which has already begun.

Of course the celebration begins on the previous evening. In the sense that it is the prior day it is called anticipated.

 

[Vico]

Are you sure? Could it have been earlier say 1955?

Midnight

Before 1953 - abstain from food from midnight, one hour for non-alcoholic liquids. In the 1891 Baltimore Catechism (revised 1941):Q. 607. Give an example of the “right dispositions” for Penance and for the Holy Eucharist.
A. The right dispositions for Penance are: 1. To confess all our mortal sins as we know them; 2. To be sorry for them, and 3. To have the determination never to commit them or others again. The right dispositions for the Holy Eucharist are: 1. To know what the Holy Eucharist is; 2. To be in a state of grace, and 3. – except in special cases of sickness – to be fasting from midnight.

baltimore-catechism.com/lesson13.htm

Three Hours

January 6 1953 - Apostolic Constitution Christus Dominus - to allow the celebration of Mass and distribution of Holy Communion in early evening hours:
a) afternoon fast shortened to to three hours for solid food and to one hour for non-alcoholic liquids.
b) the sick could, on the advice of a confessor, take something in the form of beverage or medicine, but not alcoholic beverages.

March 19, 1957 - Motu Proprio Sacram Communionem - to authorize them to allow daily celebration of Mass in the afternoon hours:
a) morning fast shortened to three hours from solid foods and alcoholic liquids, for one hour from non- alcoholic liquids, and water did not break the fast.
b) the infirm could take nonalcoholic liquids and medicine without any time limit.

One Hour

November 21, 1964
a) abstain for at least one hour before holy communion, from any food and drink, except for only water and medicine.
b) the elderly, the infirm, and those who care for them are not required to keep a communion fast.

 

[Vico]

But that discusses the Easter Vigil, which had traditionally been celebrated as such beginning on the Saturday evening, with the Mass said as part of the service.
The word vigil may be confusing here.

The particular comment is that in some places Easter is being celebrated “as if it were an evening Mass” like the Sunday anticipation on Saturday evening.
However, in some areas where initially the reform of the Easter Vigil was received enthusiastically, it would appear that with the passage of time this enthusiasm has begun to wane. The very concept of the vigil has almost come to be forgotten in some places with the result that it is celebrated as if it were an evening Mass, in the same way and at the same time as the Mass celebrated on Saturday evening in anticipation of the Sunday.

 

[Psalitte]

I think it’s also important to note that IGMR/GRIM doesn’t apply in the EF, but it doesn’t mean the altar can’t be a free-standing one, for example.

Not for the current mass, no, but there is a GIRM for the 1962 Missal and a GRRB for the 1960 Office, so those would apply, and yes they take into consideration if there is a freestanding altar, I know that.

 

[larsont7]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think going back to the 1917 Code would achieve?

To be honest, I don’t know that it would change anything since the majority of Catholics already disregard many disciplines and doctrines of the Church. But IMHO, from some of the differences I’ve seen regarding Canons in both Codes, I believe the 1917 Code is more concise and less ambiguous. Perhaps going back to the old Code would offer less confusion among the faithful?

Of course, this would be best discussed in another thread so as not to derail this one. There are plenty of websites showing the differences between the two Codes, and I just prefer the wording in the 1917 one and believe a few of the 1983 Canons should be reworded. That being said, I fully submit to the 1983 Code and follow it under obedience to our Holy Mother Church.

 

[Vico]

The term “anticipated Mass” is a misnomer. That term was used, and did apply, before the 1983 Code.

Since 1983, there is no such thing as an “anticipated Mass” on Saturday evening. The Mass on Saturday evening is, in every way, the Mass of Sunday.

St. John Paul the Great made this clear in Dies Domini, which I often reference here.49…Propterea Missae liturgia nonnumquam «praefestivae» appellatae, quae vero reapse pleno iure «festiva» est, dominici diei est, instante etiam celebrantis officio ut homiliam sacram habeat et cum fidelibus precationem universalem absolvat.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_lt.html

Some people think that they know better than St. John Paul when he was speaking as Supreme Pontiff.

Perhaps the good Pope should have consulted them before he wrote such a glaring error in his Apostolic Letter and before he promulgated the 1983 Code of Canon Law?

For the benefit of those not reading Latin, the Vatican translation from The Lords Day (Dies Domni, 1998) is:49. Because the faithful are obliged to attend Mass unless there is a grave impediment, Pastors have the corresponding duty to offer to everyone the real possibility of fulfilling the precept. The provisions of Church law move in this direction, as for example in the faculty granted to priests, with the prior authorization of the diocesan Bishop, to celebrate more than one Mass on Sundays and holy days,(85) the institution of evening Masses (86) and the provision which allows the obligation to be fulfilled from Saturday evening onwards, starting at the time of First Vespers of Sunday. (87) From a liturgical point of view, in fact, holy days begin with First Vespers. (88) Consequently, the liturgy of what is sometimes called the “Vigil Mass” is in effect the “festive” Mass of Sunday, at which the celebrant is required to preach the homily and recite the Prayer of the Faithful.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html

 

[FrDavid96]

For the benefit of those not reading Latin, the Vatican translation from The Lords Day (Dies Domni, 1998) is:49. Because the faithful are obliged to attend Mass unless there is a grave impediment, Pastors have the corresponding duty to offer to everyone the real possibility of fulfilling the precept. The provisions of Church law move in this direction, as for example in the faculty granted to priests, with the prior authorization of the diocesan Bishop, to celebrate more than one Mass on Sundays and holy days,(85) the institution of evening Masses (86) and the provision which allows the obligation to be fulfilled from Saturday evening onwards, starting at the time of First Vespers of Sunday. (87) From a liturgical point of view, in fact, holy days begin with First Vespers. (88) Consequently, the liturgy of what is sometimes called the “Vigil Mass” is in effect the “festive” Mass of Sunday, at which the celebrant is required to preach the homily and recite the Prayer of the Faithful.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html

And since “holy days begin with First Vespers” we do not “anticipate” that which has already begun.

There are problems with that ICEL translation (no surprise there). For one thing, the translator completely removed the part where St John Paul wrote “dominici diei est” meaning “it is the day of the Lord.”

Since “it is the day of the Lord” we do not anticipate it, we celebrate it.

49…Propterea Missae liturgia nonnumquam «praefestivae» appellatae, quae vero reapse pleno iure «festiva» est, dominici diei est, instante etiam celebrantis officio ut homiliam sacram habeat et cum fidelibus precationem universalem absolvat.

St John Paul tells us that we are not to call it the “pre-festive” (praefestivae) but instead the feast-day Mass of Sunday. Since we are not to call it “praefestivae” neither should we call it “anticipated.”

 

[ProVobis]

There are problems with that ICEL translation (no surprise there). For one thing, the translator completely removed the part where St John Paul wrote “dominici diei est” meaning “it is the day of the Lord.”

True. Furthermore English doesn’t have a cognate of “Dominici” as do some other languages (e.g., Domingo, Domenica, etc.).

Instead English (German too) has chosen to use as its first day of the week a pagan Day of the Sun (Dies solis). Translations to “Sunday” therefore can be confusing. As are “vespere” to “evening” or “vigil” for that matter.

 

[Vico]

And since “holy days begin with First Vespers” we do not “anticipate” that which has already begun.

There are problems with that ICEL translation (no surprise there). For one thing, the translator completely removed the part where St John Paul wrote “dominici diei est” meaning “it is the day of the Lord.”

Since “it is the day of the Lord” we do not anticipate it, we celebrate it.49…Propterea Missae liturgia nonnumquam «praefestivae» appellatae, quae vero reapse pleno iure «festiva» est, dominici diei est, instante etiam celebrantis officio ut homiliam sacram habeat et cum fidelibus precationem universalem absolvat.St John Paul tells us that we are not to call it the “pre-festive” (praefestivae) but instead the feast-day Mass of Sunday. Since we are not to call it “praefestivae” neither should we call it “anticipated.”

… the Mass “of the Lord’s day it is” being at hand for it (instante etiam) …