Does the high divorce rate among Christians undermine the credibility of what it teaches about dating and marriage?

[Starrsmother]

It’s not like God has ever provided for me in the relationship department in the first place.

God isn’t an on-line dating service. I don’t know anywhere it says that He promised anyone anything in that department. Just sayin… And to find a "perfect person in less than 3 weeks is laughable! Really laughable–! It reminds me of the some of the silly 16 year olds who come in for their first OB visit with their 2nd or 3rd kid and one of the questions always comes down to some version of “Is the baby’s daddy involved?” And they answer “Oh yes! This time I’m in a long term relationship!” Next question:“Really? How long have you two been together anyway?” (This asked because often I know that I just delivered their last baby from their last serious relationship some time about a year ago.) The answer: “Oh, well we’ve been together 2 months at least!”

I always try to turn away before I roll my eyes in complete amusement and disgust!

 

[CaliLobo]

God isn’t an on-line dating service. I don’t know anywhere it says that He promised anyone anything in that department. Just sayin… And to find a "perfect person in less than 3 weeks is laughable! Really laughable–! It reminds me of the some of the silly 16 year olds who come in for their first OB visit with their 2nd or 3rd kid and one of the questions always comes down to some version of “Is the baby’s daddy involved?” And they answer “Oh yes! This time I’m in a long term relationship!” Next question:“Really? How long have you two been together anyway?” (This asked because often I know that I just delivered their last baby from their last serious relationship some time about a year ago.) The answer: “Oh, well we’ve been together 2 months at least!”

I always try to turn away before I roll my eyes in complete amusement and disgust!

For some people it’s love at first sight; so why is it laughable?

And your stories about teen pregnancies only strengthen the need to increase access to contraception. People obviously aren’t following the Vatican, so the Vatican needs to be realistic and pragmatic about it.

 

[Starrsmother]

For some people it’s love at first sight; so why is it laughable?

And your stories about teen pregnancies only strengthen the need to increase access to contraception. People obviously aren’t following the Vatican, so the Vatican needs to be realistic and pragmatic about it.

You really are young and clueless aren’t you?
No, I believe in first LUST–which can at times (not many–but every now and then) be followed by first falling in like and then ultimately love. I was married at 17–and that’s how I describe my own experience with my husband of over 40 years in fact.
Hint: Cinderella is a fairy tale! So is Love at first Sight!

And secondly, do you honestly think that all–or even most teen girls get pregnant because they don’t know about or have access to free contraception? It’s available on nearly every street corner anymore! The only way it could be more readily available is if the schools put it on the lunch trays they use to serve at school lunch programs! Girls get pregnant mostly because they WANT to have a child with a boy that they believe at the moment will love them forever–they are wanting to create something that is missing in their own life at the time. As to the boys, for the most part, I’ve found that they seem to feel making a baby is synonamous with being a man–though they too, haven’t got a clue. The end result is that most times the pair aren’t even still a couple by the time the chick delivers–and a year later we’re back to square 1!! Except now there’s another illigitimate, fatherless and in a very real way MOTHERLESS baby out there–with it’s own cycle of a rotten childhood to overcome!

And yes, it does get really, really OLD to me–especially when my tax dollars help pay for such stupidity–which is why I point out the fallacy in your thinking rather than to simply ignore it!

 

[CaliLobo]

And secondly, do you honestly think that all–or even most teen girls get pregnant because they don’t know about or have access to free contraception? It’s available on nearly every street corner anymore! The only way it could be more readily available is if the schools put it on the lunch trays they use to serve at school lunch programs! Girls get pregnant mostly because they WANT to have a child with a boy that they believe at the moment will love them forever–they are wanting to create something that is missing in their own life at the time. As to the boys, for the most part, I’ve found that they seem to feel making a baby is synonamous with being a man–though they too, haven’t got a clue.

Contraception is available, but the Catholic Church (and Protestant churches) hinder progress in this area by:

1. Pushing for abstinence-only sex ed, which inadequately teaches about condom use (it’s also academically proven not to work; after all, once a teen inevitably has sex, then what?)
2. Denying access to the pill in health insurance plans (a big problem!)
3. Teaching that contraception is wrong (where’s the Biblical basis? And this is why many people are shamed away from using contraception, which leads to unwanted pregnancies)
4. Creating a culture that teaches that sex is shameful and taboo. (I’m tired of this and it is one reason I have quit the faith. I’m not ashamed to say I want sex. What’s so wrong about that?)

The end result is that most times the pair aren’t even still a couple by the time the chick delivers–and a year later we’re back to square 1!! Except now there’s another illigitimate, fatherless and in a very real way MOTHERLESS baby out there–with it’s own cycle of a rotten childhood to overcome!

And yes, it does get really, really OLD to me–especially when my tax dollars help pay for such stupidity–which is why I point out the fallacy in your thinking rather than to simply ignore it!

This is why we must have compassion for women and allow abortion rights…

 

[shainski]

This is why we must have compassion for women and allow abortion rights…

By that logic, there are many women saddled with care for their elderly parents. We should allow for euthanasia to free them of that burden as well.

 

[Xantippe]

Calilobo,

You’re talking about these girls as if they were upper-middle class Chinese-American soccer stars and accomplished flautists with 4.0 grade point averages, and the only thing standing between them and Yale is going on the pill. That could not be further from the truth.

Put yourself in the mind of a small town girl of very middling academic accomplishments. Does she want to leave her home and her family? No. By and large, what she wants is a home and a family of her own, and she doesn’t need to go to Yale to get them. She can have sex and have them right now–or in 9 months, with a little luck. She would look at somebody like you and feel sorry for you, because she can have something that you want and you can’t have, and she can have it right now. (Now, some years down the road, when she’s got 2 or 3 years, she may decide that she’s got enough of a good thing, but she’s not there yet.)

Now, what she’s probably not going to have is a good husband, financial security, or a stable home, but she will have a baby, and the desire for a baby and the love for a baby is the most powerful biological urge there is. The desire for sex absolutely pales in comparison (at least for the female sex). Many men discover this and get really ticked off by it, but it’s one of the facts of life, as important to know as the more basic birds and bees.

 

[CaliLobo]

Calilobo,

You’re talking about these girls as if they were upper-middle class Chinese-American soccer stars and accomplished flautists with 4.0 grade point averages, and the only thing standing between them and Yale is going on the pill. That could not be further from the truth.

Put yourself in the mind of a small town girl of very middling academic accomplishments. Does she want to leave her home and her family? No. By and large, what she wants is a home and a family of her own, and she doesn’t need to go to Yale to get them. She can have sex and have them right now–or in 9 months, with a little luck. She would look at somebody like you and feel sorry for you, because she can have something that you want and you can’t have, and she can have it right now. (Now, some years down the road, when she’s got 2 or 3 years, she may decide that she’s got enough of a good thing, but she’s not there yet.)

Now, what she’s probably not going to have is a good husband, financial security, or a stable home, but she will have a baby, and the desire for a baby and the love for a baby is the most powerful biological urge there is. The desire for sex absolutely pales in comparison (at least for the female sex). Many men discover this and get really ticked off by it, but it’s one of the facts of life, as important to know as the more basic birds and bees.

You got the sport wrong. Replace “soccer” with “tennis” for Asian-Americans!

This is a good segue back to the original question. Even in the church you see children born out of wedlock. Doesn’t this mean that the Catholic Church is losing salience and relevance when it comes to teachings on sex, dating, and marriage? People are tuning out of the Vatican. Don’t we need a new message that people won’t tune out to?

 

[His_angel]

This is a good segue back to the original question. Even in the church you see children born out of wedlock. Doesn’t this mean that the Catholic Church is losing salience and relevance when it comes to teachings on sex, dating, and marriage? People are tuning out of the Vatican. Don’t we need a new message that people won’t tune out to?

The relevance of truth is not something that disappears. True is true, no matter how many people wish to deny it.

We try to move in the right direction as a human society, but it doesn’t always work that way. Premarital sex has always happened, and always will. There were eras where it was more taboo, and times where it’s encouraged. We used to think cigarettes were healthy, and locking mental patients in asylums was right. Morality is not a democracy- the majority can be wrong.

As far as your situation with women, and subsequent anger with God, I am just having trouble understanding it. You don’t sound like you were a Christian at the start of all this. You got angry at God and threw everything out the window.

So, you dated a girl and it didn’t work. You go on another date with another woman, someone with common interests for instance. I understand you’re frustrated and see yourself on the older side of the dating pool, but you can’t be so angry at God, and sometimes at these women themselves it seems, for not getting you a girlfriend asap.

And people are allowed to want sex. We have sex drives for a reason. And in marriage is where sex should take place, with the second notion of procreation in mind. Contraception goes against the biological function of sex, and skews what should be very important. Abstaining periodically is using the fertility cycles God gave us.

 

[CaliLobo]

As far as your situation with women, and subsequent anger with God, I am just having trouble understanding it. You don’t sound like you were a Christian at the start of all this. You got angry at God and threw everything out the window.

So, you dated a girl and it didn’t work. You go on another date with another woman, someone with common interests for instance. I understand you’re frustrated and see yourself on the older side of the dating pool, but you can’t be so angry at God, and sometimes at these women themselves it seems, for not getting you a girlfriend asap.

And people are allowed to want sex. We have sex drives for a reason. And in marriage is where sex should take place, with the second notion of procreation in mind. Contraception goes against the biological function of sex, and skews what should be very important. Abstaining periodically is using the fertility cycles God gave us.

I wish it was that easy…

 

[His_angel]

I wish it was that easy…

I know it’s easier said than done, and there’s a lot of work to put into it. But being angry with God, or lowering your morality, isn’t going to help.

 

[CaliLobo]

I know it’s easier said than done, and there’s a lot of work to put into it. But being angry with God, or lowering your morality, isn’t going to help.

Not lowering morality, but being politically liberal will help. Everyone my age and younger is politically liberal. Why create an unnecessary dealbreaker?

 

[His_angel]

Not lowering morality, but being politically liberal will help. Everyone my age and younger is politically liberal. Why create an unnecessary dealbreaker?

Not everyone. I’m not. I’m 23, and the idea of dating someone pro-choice turns my stomach.

My problem is you’re falling into this liberal viewpoint far too comfortably. You seem to say it’s because you want a girlfriend- but someone who understood Church teaching couldn’t give that up. I understand you’re Protestant, I’ll give you that contraception may be a different viewpoint. But being pro-life, or wishing for people to act chastely, isn’t just some political view.

 

[CaliLobo]

Not everyone. I’m not. I’m 23, and the idea of dating someone pro-choice turns my stomach.

My problem is you’re falling into this liberal viewpoint far too comfortably. You seem to say it’s because you want a girlfriend- but someone who understood Church teaching couldn’t give that up. I understand you’re Protestant, I’ll give you that contraception may be a different viewpoint. But being pro-life, or wishing for people to act chastely, isn’t just some political view.

During my whole time at CAF I have been posting that there is no Biblical teaching that tells us how to vote, or which forbids me from supporting gay rights, abortion rights, and using contraception. The Bible doesn’t stop me from being liberal.

There are more non-Catholics than Catholics, so although I might not have a chance with you, I will play the percentages and do what it takes to date non-Catholics. After all, God doesn’t care about me and he hasn’t allowed me to keep my previous girlfriend.

I haven’t felt any different since leaving the faith.

Maybe this whole Christianity thing is a scam, just a ploy to rule over people. That is the history of Europe. In previous centuries people who didn’t comply with Catholicism were persecuted and killed. Only due to separation of church and state has Christianity been a relatively peaceful religion.

It hasn’t worked for me, so I stopped believing in it. I don’t need it.

 

[CaliLobo]

Why live in fear of hell anyway? I will seek happiness whatever it takes. Maybe there is no hell.

 

[His_angel]

During my whole time at CAF I have been posting that there is no Biblical teaching that tells us how to vote, or which forbids me from supporting gay rights, abortion rights, and using contraception. The Bible doesn’t stop me from being liberal.

There are more non-Catholics than Catholics, so although I might not have a chance with you, I will play the percentages and do what it takes to date non-Catholics. After all, God doesn’t care about me and he hasn’t allowed me to keep my previous girlfriend.

I haven’t felt any different since leaving the faith.

Maybe this whole Christianity thing is a scam, just a ploy to rule over people. That is the history of Europe. In previous centuries people who didn’t comply with Catholicism were persecuted and killed. Only due to separation of church and state has Christianity been a relatively peaceful religion.

It hasn’t worked for me, so I stopped believing in it. I don’t need it.

Onan was killed for contracepting, homosexual acts are often pointed out as sins in the Bible, and to murder a human being is without question a serious matter. Life begins at conception, humans were involved, it’s a human life.

God didn’t make your girlfriend leave. Nor does it mean He does not care. God cares about humanity most of all. He knows when a bird in the air dies, and animals are so much lower than we who are given eternal life.

But this is just a girlfriend thing for you. This is you, angry at God, trying to rig the system and get a girl.

Tell me- you were Christian when you were with your ex. What would she think about you becoming pro-choice and liberal just to attract female attention?

 

[CaliLobo]

Onan was killed for contracepting, homosexual acts are often pointed out as sins in the Bible, and to murder a human being is without question a serious matter. Life begins at conception, humans were involved, it’s a human life.

God didn’t make your girlfriend leave. Nor does it mean He does not care. God cares about humanity most of all. He knows when a bird in the air dies, and animals are so much lower than we who are given eternal life.

But this is just a girlfriend thing for you. This is you, angry at God, trying to rig the system and get a girl.

Tell me- you were Christian when you were with your ex. What would she think about you becoming pro-choice and liberal just to attract female attention?

It is not fully clear that homosexuality is a sin in the Bible. There is no Bible verse that says life begins at contraception. We’re not sure exactly why Onan was killed.

Looking back, maybe I could’ve kept her if I wasn’t so Christian. She’s libertarian and hasn’t gone to church in a while, though she hangs on to the beliefs. She has said in passing that she’s not really into it. She regrets that she grew up sheltered and that it made her awkward later in life. She regrets not smoking weed. So yes, I could’ve kept her by not being so Christian.

She’s libertarian and pro-choice, so she wouldn’t have cared.

If God cared and was truly loving he wouldn’t have let me meet her, much less let her walk away from me completely. It hurts that she doesn’t want to talk to me anymore. It hurts that women have so much power and men are left being the victims.

 

[His_angel]

It is not fully clear that homosexuality is a sin in the Bible. There is no Bible verse that says life begins at contraception. We’re not sure exactly why Onan was killed.

1 Corinthians 6:9 -
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality…

Science points out quite clearly that life begins at conception. The Bible does not need to lay literally everything about the world out for us.

The Church is sure why Onan was killed. It’s because he had sex, and did not procreate, with the woman he was supposed to impregnate.

Looking back, maybe I could’ve kept her if I wasn’t so Christian. She’s libertarian and hasn’t gone to church in a while, though she hangs on to the beliefs. She has said in passing that she’s not really into it. She regrets that she grew up sheltered and that it made her awkward later in life. She regrets not smoking weed. So yes, I could’ve kept her by not being so Christian.

She’s libertarian and pro-choice, so she wouldn’t have cared.

Well, that sort of shot my idea

If God cared and was truly loving he wouldn’t have let me meet her, much less let her walk away from me completely. It hurts that she doesn’t want to talk to me anymore. It hurts that women have so much power and men are left being the victims.

That is not how God works. We are not chess pieces. People have free will, and can do as they want. And as others have pointed out, you were dating for 19 days. You are allowed to be sad, to be angry, but to assume that God now doesn’t love you (or exist) because he ‘stole your girl’ is silly.

Both sexes have power, and either sex can be victimized. Many men and women are left distraught after someone they love no longer feels the same way.

 

[CaliLobo]

1 Corinthians 6:9 -
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality…

Science points out quite clearly that life begins at conception. The Bible does not need to lay literally everything about the world out for us.

The Church is sure why Onan was killed. It’s because he had sex, and did not procreate, with the woman he was supposed to impregnate.

Well, that sort of shot my idea

That is not how God works. We are not chess pieces. People have free will, and can do as they want. And as others have pointed out, you were dating for 19 days. You are allowed to be sad, to be angry, but to assume that God now doesn’t love you (or exist) because he ‘stole your girl’ is silly.

Both sexes have power, and either sex can be victimized. Many men and women are left distraught after someone they love no longer feels the same way.

All I know is that I can’t keep living as a single person anymore. It is lonely and miserable.

 

[His_angel]

All I know is that I can’t keep living as a single person anymore. It is lonely and miserable.

This I understand.

But the answer isn’t to try and get the first girl who you meet. Or to be angry at God. People have bad situations, and terrible situations, and sometimes just miserable and annoying ones. Life is like that.

You can do things to change it. Which is, again, easier said than done.

Have you maybe thought about counseling? Discussing life with someone whose sole job is to deal with bad and miserable scenarios, and to understand the human mind and emotion, might be a big help. I’m sure a local church has something, and most professionals will work out payment plans if money is an issue. There are hotlines you can call just to talk.

 

[Starrsmother]

All I know is that I can’t keep living as a single person anymore. It is lonely and miserable.

Hint my friend: We come into this world alone and we leave it the same way. It’s what we do in the span between the first and second occurrence that really count–as life is short–maybe 70 or 80 years if you are lucky. Eternity is a long, long time. I am not judging you. I suspect that you are young and that you are hurting. Get out of your “me” attitude and find someone worse off than you and do one thing nice to help them–just one–but make it be something noticeable. Try doing that as a sort of “deal” with yourself, if you will. Make a decision that before you give up on God and women and life–you’ll do just one good thing–help one unlucky person worse off than you in whatever way you choose. Then if you still feel the same afterwards as you do now–go for it! I’ll not advise further!