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iaskquestions
Guest
Does the Holy Spirit leave us when we commit mortal sin?
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thistle
Guest
Its the other way round. By definition when we commit a mortal sin we are rejecting God’s love and turning away from him.
CCC 1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.
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spauline
Guest
However, the Catholic Encyc, in an article on judgement, says that AFTER we commit mortal sin, God spiritually blinds us by witholding His grace, so that we will pursue the created good unto its completion and find it wanting. Then, as the soul realizes that the created good cannot of itself fully satisfy the longings of his will, God floods the sinner with actual grace to say, “Now do you see that only I can fill the void.”
The prodigal son is like this. Does the father run after the boy and plead with him to return all down the road? No, he just lets him go. Why? Because the boy has made up his mind, and the father, in heartbreak, realizes that only by allowing the boy to end in ruin will he be able to bring him back.
Hence, as the boy is enjoying the women and gambling, his thoughts are not on the father. But when the inheritance is exhausted and the famine comes, THEN the boy considers the futility of this world and, moved by grace, hastens to return and ask for mercy.
There was a wonderful guest on the Journey Home who exemplified this teaching: he was on a hospital bed for drug rehab and pondering on how he had experienced everything this world has to offer: a biker, partied with Led Zeppelin, the drugs, the sex, you name it. And he was in an utter emptiness. It was not enough.
And so he prayed to God to show him just one verse to speak to him, and opened the Scriptures. And he opened to I believe Galatians and read words that surely were predestined to speak unto him by the Spirit: “For do not be deceived, neither slanderers, nor drunkards, nor fornnicators, nor theives, etc… shall inherit the kingdom of God.” And he swore that practically every sin named he was guilty of supremely.
And so it hit him: not only is their emptiness in this life with such revelry, but there is eternal emptiness in the next life.
By the grace of God, he is a Catholic monk today. A changed man.
It truly shows that God must withold the grace of conversion until the moments when the soul can hear of the created good it seeks above all, “it is not enough.” until then, he must leave the sinner to exhaust the created good. “And hence, spiritually blind the sinner.”
This is the authentic meaning of “and God hardened Pharoe’s heart,” contrary to Calvin’s assertion that man is not free. Man is free. God simply witholds the grace for a later time.
The prodigal son is like this. Does the father run after the boy and plead with him to return all down the road? No, he just lets him go. Why? Because the boy has made up his mind, and the father, in heartbreak, realizes that only by allowing the boy to end in ruin will he be able to bring him back.
Hence, as the boy is enjoying the women and gambling, his thoughts are not on the father. But when the inheritance is exhausted and the famine comes, THEN the boy considers the futility of this world and, moved by grace, hastens to return and ask for mercy.
There was a wonderful guest on the Journey Home who exemplified this teaching: he was on a hospital bed for drug rehab and pondering on how he had experienced everything this world has to offer: a biker, partied with Led Zeppelin, the drugs, the sex, you name it. And he was in an utter emptiness. It was not enough.
And so he prayed to God to show him just one verse to speak to him, and opened the Scriptures. And he opened to I believe Galatians and read words that surely were predestined to speak unto him by the Spirit: “For do not be deceived, neither slanderers, nor drunkards, nor fornnicators, nor theives, etc… shall inherit the kingdom of God.” And he swore that practically every sin named he was guilty of supremely.
And so it hit him: not only is their emptiness in this life with such revelry, but there is eternal emptiness in the next life.
By the grace of God, he is a Catholic monk today. A changed man.
It truly shows that God must withold the grace of conversion until the moments when the soul can hear of the created good it seeks above all, “it is not enough.” until then, he must leave the sinner to exhaust the created good. “And hence, spiritually blind the sinner.”
This is the authentic meaning of “and God hardened Pharoe’s heart,” contrary to Calvin’s assertion that man is not free. Man is free. God simply witholds the grace for a later time.
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iaskquestions
Guest
So does the Spirit leave us then?
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PhilotheaZ
Guest
Yes. Mortal sin results in a loss of sanctifying grace, which is the life of God in our soul (see Catechism of the Catholic Church #1861 vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm ).
God never abandons us. If the Holy Spirit leaves us, it is because we have willingly driven Him away.
God is eager to return to our souls after we sin. That is why He sometimes sends us actual graces (different from sanctifying grace), special graces we need for specific situations — in this case, the grace that urges us to repent of our sins and go to confession.
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Blade_and_Blood
Guest
In my understanding, it never leaves. When you have the Holy Spirit in your soul it never goes away, even if you want it to… but that is more of a *spiritually *Catholic way of explaining it.
If you want to base it all on text, then, apparently, it can.
Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
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Tsuwano
Guest
No, the Holy Spirit doesn’t leave us when we commit a mortal sin. Sin turns us away from God, it doesn’t turn God away from us. God’s grace is always available to us when we seek it.
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Nexistepas
Guest
Yea and the birds stop chirping, the dogs stop barking and the whole world stops
How about thinking positively for once that there aren’t magical beings around and get on with your day to day life, or just sit back and enjoy without worrying about the boogeyman jumping out of the closet.
How about thinking positively for once that there aren’t magical beings around and get on with your day to day life, or just sit back and enjoy without worrying about the boogeyman jumping out of the closet.
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DaveBj
Guest
If the Holy Spirit leaves me when I commit a mortal sin, then who is it that beats me up until I hie myself to Confession?
DaveBj
DaveBj
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PhilotheaZ
Guest
That is God providing actual graces even when you are not in the state of sanctifying grace.
Even when He is not dwelling within you, He still pursues you.
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BarbaraTherese
Guest
According to St. Thomas Aquinas or it may have been St. Augustine, I dont have time to research just now, God exists in the soul in two different ways. One is called “susbstantially” I think meaning, I think
, that no one can exist without God holding the person in existence. The other way has a particular name too, meaning God existing in the soul through the state of Supernatural Grace, which the soul looses through mortal sin. But is still held in existence by God.
You may just be able to get a more educated answer and also with an explanation of the two different ways in Apologetics. Although once I get home from Vigil Mass tonight (Sat. afternoon here in Sth. Aust. just now) at some later point this evening, I will try to research this and post in this thread the two different ways - I’d like to have it in my files anyway for possible future reference.
I’ll try to research the whole issue.
Spauline gave quite a good response I thought.
Barb
, that no one can exist without God holding the person in existence. The other way has a particular name too, meaning God existing in the soul through the state of Supernatural Grace, which the soul looses through mortal sin. But is still held in existence by God.You may just be able to get a more educated answer and also with an explanation of the two different ways in Apologetics. Although once I get home from Vigil Mass tonight (Sat. afternoon here in Sth. Aust. just now) at some later point this evening, I will try to research this and post in this thread the two different ways - I’d like to have it in my files anyway for possible future reference.
I’ll try to research the whole issue.
Spauline gave quite a good response I thought.
Barb
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BarbaraTherese
Guest
I think I have unnecessarily complicated things by mentioning the two ways in which God is Present……….although the research I have come up with is below, although not precisely what I was looking for
catholicforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25120
Rather, I thought, this thread from Catholic Community Forum I came across is very short and very well explains things and not in a complex fashion:and incidentally gave me cause to suspect I did not know what I was talking about and a distinct possibility in my first post into this thread!!!
catholicforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25120
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knightbird111
Guest
Yes, the Holy spirit leaves when you commit a mortal sin. The danger is if you continue in that sin. The Holy spirit leaves for good and then 7 more evil spirits enter worse than before.
That is an extremely dangerous thing to happen to a person. If 7 worser spirits enter you will be worse off than an unbeliever.
Mortal sin causes the Holy spirit to leave because God will not dwell in a dirty temple.
Once you repent, the Holy spirit will return but you will get consequences for each sin you commit and God will send you chastisement. If you wait a couple of days from the time you commit the mortal sin, the Holy spirit will return again to dwell in you.
You sin, Holy spirit says bye bye…you keep sinning, God permanently takes his Holy spirit away from you…that is a major problem-O Your life at that point falls back into Satan’s hands…you think Satan is going to welcome you back with open arms?
When one falls back under the laws of the antichrist system and under the bondage of sin, they are going to wish they were dead because Satan will wreck their lives 1000 times more than when they never knew Christ or the truth.
If you sin, and this goes for me too, you better be on your knees crying for forgiveness, even if you sin 1000 times because…if God permanently leaves you, you are DOOMED.
The Holy Spirit is what shields you from the demonic entities within the anti-christ system. You play with sin long enough, your shield is gone and you get eaten up by spirits who will enter your mind and who knows what they will do to you, possibly end up in a psych ward if your not careful or in jail.
Many who are not completely sold out to Jesus, I am talking about true followers of Christ. They end up is very bad positions, good people who loved Christ, were not 100 percent sold out, they end up is extremely bad positions.
Hell is hot and God is holy
That is an extremely dangerous thing to happen to a person. If 7 worser spirits enter you will be worse off than an unbeliever.
Mortal sin causes the Holy spirit to leave because God will not dwell in a dirty temple.
Once you repent, the Holy spirit will return but you will get consequences for each sin you commit and God will send you chastisement. If you wait a couple of days from the time you commit the mortal sin, the Holy spirit will return again to dwell in you.
You sin, Holy spirit says bye bye…you keep sinning, God permanently takes his Holy spirit away from you…that is a major problem-O Your life at that point falls back into Satan’s hands…you think Satan is going to welcome you back with open arms?
When one falls back under the laws of the antichrist system and under the bondage of sin, they are going to wish they were dead because Satan will wreck their lives 1000 times more than when they never knew Christ or the truth.
If you sin, and this goes for me too, you better be on your knees crying for forgiveness, even if you sin 1000 times because…if God permanently leaves you, you are DOOMED.
The Holy Spirit is what shields you from the demonic entities within the anti-christ system. You play with sin long enough, your shield is gone and you get eaten up by spirits who will enter your mind and who knows what they will do to you, possibly end up in a psych ward if your not careful or in jail.
Many who are not completely sold out to Jesus, I am talking about true followers of Christ. They end up is very bad positions, good people who loved Christ, were not 100 percent sold out, they end up is extremely bad positions.
Hell is hot and God is holy
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thistle
Guest
This is a 4 year old thread. We are not to resurrect old threads.
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