Does the human embryo have a soul?

[Rence]

Does God give every human being a soul, and if so, when?

From catholic.com/quickquestions/since-the-church-has-not-said-when-ensoulment-occurs-does-that-make-abortion-and-embr

In the course of history, the Fathers of the Church, her pastors, and her Doctors have taught the same doctrine—the various opinions on the infusion of the spiritual soul did not introduce any doubt about the illicitness of abortion. It is true that in the Middle Ages, when the opinion was generally held that the spiritual soul was not present until after the first few weeks, a distinction was made in the evaluation of the sin and the gravity of penal sanctions. Excellent authors allowed for this first period more lenient case solutions which they rejected for following periods. But it was never denied at that time that procured abortion, even during the first days, was objectively grave fault. This condemnation was in fact unanimous . . . Most recently, the Second Vatican Council, presided over by Paul VI, has most severely condemned abortion: “Life must be safeguarded with extreme care from conception; abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.” The same Paul VI, speaking on this subject on many occasions, has not been afraid to declare that this teaching of the Church “has not changed and is unchangeable.” (7)

They do not know exactly when ensoulment happens, which is why abortion is forbidden by the Church starting at conception.

 

[bzkoss236]

Would the same be said for embryos with anencephaly? They are technically alive and may have enough of a nervous system for autonomic functioning but not enough of a brain to ever achieve consciousness.

If I am correct, even if a person is a living vegetable, it is our belief that they still have a soul.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

You should consider reading some of the works of St Augustine. He was a firm believer that souls were not individually created but rather passed down through the generations.

I’m sure you are wrong. Can you back that up? If not it should be dismissed off hand.

And with respect to twins, the notion that a fertilized egg will have multiple souls is not widely accepted.

You are speaking of Fraternal Twins. One would think that the soul would be implanted for each twin when the egg divides.

And don’t forget Adam, he was never a fertilized egg to begin with. So it appears that there were exceptions.

Yes, God worked a miracle there just as he did in the conception of Jesus.

The Church has no formal definition on the precise moment of the implantation of the soul. But each embryeo must be treated as though the soul is present from the moment of conception. To act otherwise would be to second guess the intentions of God. No one is ever justified in doing that.

 

[cerad2]

I’m sure you are wrong. Can you back that up? If not it should be dismissed off hand.

Start here: newadvent.org/fathers/15082.htm On the Soul and its Origin (Book II). It’s not easy to wade through. St A was extremely long winded and repetitious. But it’s clear his ideas on souls are drastically different than the current Catholic doctrine.

You are speaking of Fraternal Twins. One would think that the soul would be implanted for each twin when the egg divides.

No I’m not. But I do understand your position on facts.

Yes, God worked a miracle there just as he did in the conception of Jesus.

The Church has no formal definition on the precise moment of the implantation of the soul. But each embryeo must be treated as though the soul is present from the moment of conception. To act otherwise would be to second guess the intentions of God. No one is ever justified in doing that.

How can you second guess an intention when you don’t know what the intention was in the first place?

 

[mercytruth]

From catholic.com/quickquestions/since-the-church-has-not-said-when-ensoulment-occurs-does-that-make-abortion-and-embr

They do not know exactly when ensoulment happens, which is why abortion is forbidden by the Church starting at conception.

This was my understanding also. Although I keep thinking about the scripture, “God breathed into his nostrils and he became a living soul” What if ensoulment happens when the baby takes his first breath?

God’s peace

micah

 

[Faithdancer]

Belief in reincarnation is heresy, always has been and always will be.

 

[mommamaree]

Doesn’t make much sense theologically since it can take over a week before the egg splits into two separate entities.

Why not? When God spoke the words of creation, the universe did not immediately pop into existence, did it? Instead, thousands or even millions of years were needed to accomplish each stage of the creation of the universe. So what is a week? Less than the blink of an eye.

A pregnant mother contains a body and soul within her own body and soul, too. Why can’t twins share, for a time, physical material? Also, we believe that conjoined twins each have their own soul, right? So ensoulment could be assumed to happen prior to the division of the embryo into two embryos…

 

[Marc_Anthony]

You should consider reading some of the works of St Augustine. He was a firm believer that souls were not individually created but rather passed down through the generations.

Other people will get to the rest of what you wrote, I’ve already reconciled myself to those issues and the debates tend to be utterly fruitless.

But on this point, you may be right. I’ve never looked into St. Augustine’s views .

As a Thomist though St. Thomas believed that a soul formed as soon as life did. He did indeed believe that embryos were not ensouled until a certain point in development, but only because science had not yet been able to prove if embryos were alive or not at any time before the point of development he specified.

With science proving that a zygote is alive from the moment of conception from a Thomistic perspective the zygote did indeed have a soul.

St. Thomas’s metaphysics is the most generally accepted by the Church today and I believe it is normally his metaphysics that is used to clarify the Church’s teaching on abortion today, not St. Augustine’s.

 

[cerad2]

With science proving that a zygote is alive from the moment of conception from a Thomistic perspective the zygote did indeed have a soul.

Both sperm and egg are both considered alive before fertilization. A fertilized egg is no different from a life or death perspective.

St. Thomas’s metaphysics is the most generally accepted by the Church today and I believe it is normally his metaphysics that is used to clarify the Church’s teaching on abortion today, not St. Augustine’s.

Catholics often express pride in the longevity of their church and point out the unchanging nature of their doctrines. Suggesting that one saint is more “clearer” than another on such a fundamental issue seems strange especially if there is a thousand year gap between the two.

 

[cerad2]

Why not? When God spoke the words of creation, the universe did not immediately pop into existence, did it? Instead, thousands or even millions of years were needed to accomplish each stage of the creation of the universe. So what is a week? Less than the blink of an eye.

A pregnant mother contains a body and soul within her own body and soul, too. Why can’t twins share, for a time, physical material? Also, we believe that conjoined twins each have their own soul, right? So ensoulment could be assumed to happen prior to the division of the embryo into two embryos…

Actually, conjoined twins have not yet been discussed in this thread. Two souls, one body? Difficult to fit that in to Catholic theology. What would stop other people from having multiple souls?

 

[tabycat]

Would the same be said for embryos with anencephaly? They are technically alive and may have enough of a nervous system for autonomic functioning but not enough of a brain to ever achieve consciousness.

They are human therefore they would have a human soul. What other type of soul would they have?

 

[pete_29]

Actually, conjoined twins have not yet been discussed in this thread. Two souls, one body? Difficult to fit that in to Catholic theology. What would stop other people from having multiple souls?

2 minds, 2 souls

 

[cerad2]

2 minds, 2 souls

Both inhabiting the same body. So is Catholic theology really on board with one body having multiple souls?

 

[mommamaree]

Both inhabiting the same body. So is Catholic theology really on board with one body having multiple souls?

Are you familiar with conjoined twins, as a concept at least? They do not have merely one body. They have more than one body, but not two complete bodies. Sometimes, when joined at the head, some brain matter is shared, but they still have two minds, two personalities. The rest of the time, their bodies are fused elsewhere, and will share some organs as well. I actually have seen, in person, a set of female conjoined twins, that had grown to adulthood while having fused heads. They were coming into Target the same time as I was. They were very obviously two people, with the stronger twin pushing the weaker twin on a rolling elevated chair. They are quite famous actually, and appeared as guest stars on an episode of Nip/Tuck.

 

[pete_29]

Both inhabiting the same body. So is Catholic theology really on board with one body having multiple souls?

So two persons joined at the hip are actually one person . I guess they only get one vote too. What a joke.

 

[jmcrae]

You should consider reading some of the works of St Augustine. He was a firm believer that souls were not individually created but rather passed down through the generations.

And with respect to twins, the notion that a fertilized egg will have multiple souls is not widely accepted.

The twin gets his soul at the moment that he begins to move independently of his brother. Both the body and the soul are twinned in the same instant - not only the body. Remember, the soul is the life of the body. Without the soul, there is no life.

And don’t forget Adam, he was never a fertilized egg to begin with. So it appears that there were exceptions.

It’s actually the same situation for Adam as with the twin - he got his soul at the instant that he began to be alive. It’s not actually all that complicated.

 

[cerad2]

The twin gets his soul at the moment that he begins to move independently of his brother. Both the body and the soul are twinned in the same instant - not only the body. Remember, the soul is the life of the body. Without the soul, there is no life.

And this “move independently” is part of Catholic theology?

And you seem to be saying that sperm cells are not alive? Or do they have souls as well?

 

[Jason_Firestone]

As you say, you cannot define at what “pico-second” it occurs and since your info states that you are Episcopalian and obviously believe in God, I figure you would have to assume that the soul is infused at the earliest possible time. When the sperm and egg unite or when the “twin” splits. If not, you run the risk of tampering with God’s will. Surely this something that anyone who believes in God would not want to do.

Absolutley. Excellent point.

 

[edwest2]

Why don’t people use the internet and find credible answers to their questions?

ncbcenter.org/Page.aspx?pid=305

Peace,
Ed

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Start here: newadvent.org/fathers/15082.htm On the Soul and its Origin (Book II). It’s not easy to wade through. St A was extremely long winded and repetitious. But it’s clear his ideas on souls are drastically different than the current Catholic doctrine.

If you will reread the second to last paragraph, you will see that Augustine was uncertain which position ( direct ensoulment of each soul by God into each new body or a propagation of the soul via the parents to the new body).

How can you second guess an intention when you don’t know what the intention was in the first place?

That was not my intention. I’m not quite sure what you are objecting to. God breathed into the nostrils of Adam and he became a man. God created Adam’s soul directly. It seems reasonable to assume that Christ’s human soul was created in the same fashion.

However, the Church does hold as Defined Doctrine that each soul is created by God directly and not generated by propagation. And abortion has always been condemned as a serious sin even in those early years when the time of ensoulement was in doubt.