Does the human embryo have a soul?

[mercytruth]

Your last statement is amazing. Can you provide one example of being irresponsible regarding nuclear, biological or chemical weapons? Do you think any of these nations have strict safeguards regarding their most dangerous weapons?

Peace,
Ed

WMD includes the sharing of nuclear technology, and the indiscriminate use of napalm, cluster bombs, antipersonell bombs etc. The United Nations has repeatedly tried to ban anti-personell bombs, cluster bombs and the like, but none of the five permament members of the United Nations Security Council would agree. (The U.S., Russia, China, Great Britain, and France)

The US has recently agreed to clean up the agent orange used in Vietnam. I was once friends of a Marine who served in Viet Nam and was compensated for the softball size tumor that developed in his brain because of agent orange. He was my age, lost half his brain, and is now dead.

This is off topic and I do not think it is wise to pursue it.

God’s peace to you

micah

 

[mercytruth]

This is a guy seems to be just flogging his books for money.

There is absolutely no actual scientific evidence for this “cellular memory”.

This is an article from an actual heart transplant patient on this topic.

bobsnewheart.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/can-cellular-memory-cause-transplant-recipients-to-act-like-their-donors/

It is not just one or two medical researchers. You are certainly entitled to disagree, and I never claimed that all organ donor recipients undergo these sorts of personality changes…some do.

effective-mind-control.com/cellular-memory-in-organ-transplants.html

God’s peace

micah

 

[Nabooru]

To me this question is kind of tricky. I remember reading that somewhere around 75% of fertilized eggs never implant, and thus never experience life as we know it. That means there are a LOT of people wandering around in heaven (presuming all fertilized, non-implanted souls go to heaven) with no idea of how they got there.

I’m not saying that I support abortion, I’m just saying I don’t know the definitive moment ensoulment happens. Thomas Aquinas himself thought it happened around 40 days after conception, but he was also staunchly anti-abortion at all stages of pregnancy.

 

[jmcrae]

To me this question is kind of tricky. I remember reading that somewhere around 75% of fertilized eggs never implant, and thus never experience life as we know it. That means there are a LOT of people wandering around in heaven (presuming all fertilized, non-implanted souls go to heaven) with no idea of how they got there.

And who is to say that that’s not how it is for most of the human race? That only a select few are chosen to bear the crosses of this world, and survive to be old enough to reproduce, creating souls not only to suffer and be purified on the earth, but also souls who will go straight to Heaven and into the waiting arms of the Father. It’s kind of a nice thought, actually, that the majority of people never experience any kind of suffering.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

And who is to say that that’s not how it is for most of the human race? That only a select few are chosen to bear the crosses of this world, and survive to be old enough to reproduce, creating souls not only to suffer and be purified on the earth, but also souls who will go straight to Heaven and into the waiting arms of the Father. It’s kind of a nice thought, actually, that the majority of people never experience any kind of suffering.

We’re the…lucky ones? Unlucky ones?

 

[AdamP88]

It is not just one or two medical researchers. You are certainly entitled to disagree, and I never claimed that all organ donor recipients undergo these sorts of personality changes…some do.

effective-mind-control.com/cellular-memory-in-organ-transplants.html

God’s peace

micah

This is another dubious link by someone who has no real credentials in a scientific field.

The fact is - there is no substantive data or research to back up the idea for cellular memory being transfered via organ donation.

It is simply a vague theory that you have adopted as fact.

 

[mercytruth]

This is another dubious link by someone who has no real credentials in a scientific field.

The fact is - there is no substantive data or research to back up the idea for cellular memory being transfered via organ donation.

It is simply a vague theory that you have adopted as fact.

It is not as vague as you are making it. A 2004 Nobel Prize winner showed that certain memories are stored in the olfactory nerve cells. Extrapolating on this finding, scientists are wondering whether memories are stored in various nerve cells throughout the body.

A Nobel Prize was awarded for the discovery of the use combinatorial coding by the olfactory system in 2004. The olfactory system used the coding to enable a relatively small number of olfactory receptors to recognize different odors. Science discovered that particular combinations could fire to trigger recognition. In the experiment scientists reported that even slight changes in chemical structure activated different combinations of receptors. Thus, octanol smelled like oranges, but the similar compound octanoic acid smelled like sweat. We remembered the smell of oranges. Even the smell of sweat. Which meant that the system remembered those combinations. But science failed to recognize the true significance of combinatorial coding when they searched for the location of human memory. Millions of combinations were possible for the nerve cell with (name removed by moderator)uts from A to Z. But nerve cells had thousands of (name removed by moderator)uts. If nerve cells remembered combinations, then that could be the location of a galactic nervous system memory.

informations-bank.com/showarticle.php?article=38810

God’s peace

micah

 

[prolife2011]

Yes they do have souls

 

[AdamP88]

It is not as vague as you are making it. A 2004 Nobel Prize winner showed that certain memories are stored in the olfactory nerve cells. Extrapolating on this finding, scientists are wondering whether memories are stored in various nerve cells throughout the body.

A Nobel Prize was awarded for the discovery of the use combinatorial coding by the olfactory system in 2004. The olfactory system used the coding to enable a relatively small number of olfactory receptors to recognize different odors. Science discovered that particular combinations could fire to trigger recognition. In the experiment scientists reported that even slight changes in chemical structure activated different combinations of receptors. Thus, octanol smelled like oranges, but the similar compound octanoic acid smelled like sweat. We remembered the smell of oranges. Even the smell of sweat. Which meant that the system remembered those combinations. But science failed to recognize the true significance of combinatorial coding when they searched for the location of human memory. Millions of combinations were possible for the nerve cell with (name removed by moderator)uts from A to Z. But nerve cells had thousands of (name removed by moderator)uts. If nerve cells remembered combinations, then that could be the location of a galactic nervous system memory.

informations-bank.com/showarticle.php?article=38810

God’s peace

micah

The cells in the body do have memory. But not in the sense that you are making out. At least it has never been proven and the evidence is flimsy.

Your post is about olfactory memory. This is specifically what these cells are designed for. Smelling. Just like tase buds recognise certain tastes.

 

[oval]

I think in general and to be in step with an unfolding flow that a God would be, when we look at creation we don’t take the night sky apart to uncover the Maker.

The new universal in soul and body… wouldn’t rationally be subject to being out of step with the flow in its subject.

The conception and soul endowment would embrace the natural flow known in the unfolding nature of existence through its chief unifying moment, and also in the event which found the finder of grace, the Immaculate Conception.

 

[mercytruth]

I think in general and to be in step with an unfolding flow that a God would be, when we look at creation we don’t take the night sky apart to uncover the Maker.

The new universal in soul and body… wouldn’t rationally be subject to being out of step with the flow in its subject.

The conception and soul endowment would embrace the natural flow known in the unfolding nature of existence through its chief unifying moment, and also in the event which found the finder of grace, the Immaculate Conception.

I think I could accept the concept of the soul of our Lord Jesus Christ being present from the moment of the Virgin Mary’s conception. Maybe also true for the other miraculous conceptions of Abraham and Sarah, Zechariah and Elizabeth for example.

"That which born of the flesh, is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"

God breathed into Adam, and he became a living soul. “You must be born again”

Reflecting on ensoulment and natural birth, I sort of think that at some point in our mother’s womb, God confers a soul to us. Emerging from the placenta, with our first breath we become a **living **soul. This would seem to be the unifying moment when God graces us with his light of conscience, and we become the children of men, thereby joining the human race here on earth.

Emerging from the baptismal font, the breath of the Holy Spirit is imparted to our souls which had died in tresspasses and sin. This becomes our unifying moment when we become one with the body of Christ. Whereupon we become the adopted children of our heavenly Father, born into the citizenship of heaven.

just my thoughts

God’s peace

micah

 

[oval]

I think I could accept the concept of the soul of our Lord Jesus Christ being present from the moment of the Virgin Mary’s conception. Maybe also true for the other miraculous conceptions of Abraham and Sarah, Zechariah and Elizabeth for example.

"That which born of the flesh, is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"

God breathed into Adam, and he became a living soul. “You must be born again”

Reflecting on ensoulment and natural birth, I sort of think that at some point in our mother’s womb, God confers a soul to us. Emerging from the placenta, with our first breath we become a **living **soul. This would seem to be the unifying moment when God graces us with his light of conscience, and we become the children of men, thereby joining the human race here on earth.

Emerging from the baptismal font, the breath of the Holy Spirit is imparted to our souls which had died in tresspasses and sin. This becomes our unifying moment when we become one with the body of Christ. Whereupon we become the adopted children of our heavenly Father, born into the citizenship of heaven.

just my thoughts

God’s peace

micah

It doesn’t follow from the act itself though, it is without the mutual God-man creating participation .and argues the nature of consequence out of contrast, the theme in creation.

The intimate meaningful natural act is left in a divided isolation, which objects to the emerging of experience in the act being unity, as two become one in mind, soul and body.

My opinion is only comfortable for myself and always enjoy understanding other comfortable idea’s…so I’m not trying to be argumentative or convincing, just sharing along with the thinking…( I gotta tend to something for a bit here

 

[mercytruth]

It doesn’t follow from the act itself though, it is without the mutual God-man creating participation .and argues the nature of consequence out of contrast, the theme in creation.

The intimate meaningful natural act is left in a divided isolation, which objects to the emerging of experience in the act being unity, as two become one in mind, soul and body.

My opinion is only comfortable for myself and always enjoy understanding other comfortable idea’s…so I’m not trying to be argumentative or convincing, just sharing along with the thinking…( I gotta tend to something for a bit here

I respect your understanding.

God’s peace to you

micah

 

[johnnyc176]

Yes they do have souls

 

[oval]

I respect your understanding.

God’s peace to you

micah

This is un-acceptable.

You’ve agreed that you are not exploring the query of soul endowment, but are comfortable with the assorted compilation of alternate times for conception, with full back turned to the explained, including the insight Christianity has in this matter of conception, in the Immaculate Conception…

There are no footnotes or clause’s attached to say, a conception is without the spirit of endowment in the soul without the word Immaculate, therefore the right to improvise on the absolute in conception and spirituality is NOT available.

Using words like the breath of life and the heart of Jesus and blood idea’s for alternate reasons already amply explained is theft. If writings wanted to include conception i8n these idea’s they would have, they did not because the exact circumstance of the Immaculate Conception opens the door to a tone in Gods participation in conception, this cannot be argued.

As said, I do not entertain arguing, but this agreed comfort with defending abortion clinics changes things to a conscious stirred defense, on behalf of un-born toddlers.

So then, if you were an MD, and needed some extra cash…you would be comfortable opening up a 24/7 abortion clinic if the Mothers met your particular standards in this breathing idea… is that it…?

Either a human effort is ethical and moral or it is not. If an effort is ethical and moral then it is a good, to be promoted.

The toddler has been reduced to a crowded tooth until it meets the breathing idea. And at who’s convenience is the good intended, and then therefore how, has this discussion continued to involve the issue of soul what so ever ?

If its argued that abortion should be legal or people should have the advantage of personal inspiration toward sincere behavior, and choice forwarding a hope for a good moral ego in conscious development with available guidance for discernment, in light of a culture with a broken family theme which has become boorish for it…that’s one thing…its another I would say to “contribute” to the boorish culture by promoting activities which are directly associated with this issue. and are a proven ethical wrong. The whole world knows it is wrong, it is not desirable or good in of itself, it is a chosen ill-path for an unwanted outcome.

A bomb contains the zillions of interactions and failed communications on behalf of both sides of an argument…and then express’s itself …abortion express’s the boorish broken down communicating family idea…and express’s in bomb like destruction against the one completely innocent…

 

[mercytruth]

This is un-acceptable.

You’ve agreed that you are not exploring the query of soul endowment, but are comfortable with the assorted compilation of alternate times for conception, with full back turned to the explained, including the insight Christianity has in this matter of conception, in the Immaculate Conception…

There are no footnotes or clause’s attached to say, a conception is without the spirit of endowment in the soul without the word Immaculate, therefore the right to improvise on the absolute in conception and spirituality is NOT available.

Using words like the breath of life and the heart of Jesus and blood idea’s for alternate reasons already amply explained is theft. If writings wanted to include conception i8n these idea’s they would have, they did not because the exact circumstance of the Immaculate Conception opens the door to a tone in Gods participation in conception, this cannot be argued.

As said, I do not entertain arguing, but this agreed comfort with defending abortion clinics changes things to a conscious stirred defense, on behalf of un-born toddlers.

So then, if you were an MD, and needed some extra cash…you would be comfortable opening up a 24/7 abortion clinic if the Mothers met your particular standards in this breathing idea… is that it…?

Either a human effort is ethical and moral or it is not. If an effort is ethical and moral then it is a good, to be promoted.

The toddler has been reduced to a crowded tooth until it meets the breathing idea. And at who’s convenience is the good intended, and then therefore how, has this discussion continued to involve the issue of soul what so ever ?

If its argued that abortion should be legal or people should have the advantage of personal inspiration toward sincere behavior, in light of a culture with a broken family theme which has become boorish for it…that is one thing…its quite another I would say to “contribute” to the boorish culture by promoting activities which are directly associated with this issue. and are a proven ethical wrong. The whole world knows it is wrong, it is not desirable or good in of itself, it is a chosen ill-path for an unwanted outcome.

A bomb contains the zillions of interactions and failed communications on behalf of both sides of an argument…and then express’s itself …abortion express’s the boorish broken down communicating family idea…and express’s in bomb like destruction against the one completely innocent…

I am open to alternate times of ensoulment, but not to abortion. A human life just conceived may not be an ensouled person, but such a human life is created by God and such a human life needs to be protected. Such a human life is sacred by the sacred act of our sacred Creator. I do not have to proclaim ensoulment at conception to maintain the sanctity of human life.

If you read what I said, these were my thoughts. That possibly a human life is ensouled at anytime within the womb, and when this baby who is ensouled comes forth from his/her mother’s womb, he/she takes her first breath and becomes a living soul. Living not in the sense of physical life, but in the sense being human with a conscience, a conscience which learns the effects of choosing good or evil.

God’s peace to you

micah

 

[oval]

I am open to alternate times of ensoulment, but not to abortion. A human life just conceived may not be an ensouled person, but such a human life is created by God and such a human life needs to be protected. Such a human life is sacred by the sacred act of our sacred Creator. I do not have to proclaim ensoulment at conception to maintain the sanctity of human life.

If you read what I said, these were my thoughts. That possibly a human life is ensouled at anytime within the womb, and when this baby who is ensouled comes forth from his/her mother’s womb, he/she takes her first breath and becomes a living soul. Living not in the sense of physical life, but in the sense being human with a conscience, a conscience which learns the effects of choosing good or evil.

God’s peace to you

micah

How can a position be open to options re ensoulment which gives infinite value to conception, and then deny its significance on abortion ?

Open to options is all about, open to finding a way to justify abortion, how could it not…?

Sanctity of life would include reproductive properties of the human, we cannot ask God to bless the indulgence of eating potatoes chips all day, idea’s away from moderation, chewing the finger nails obsessively, all infractions from mild to severe in attention to the sanctity of life. Open to options in order to reach into the women and remove something ?.. if were are open to options it would require an openess Gods blessing. The only prayer I can think of in this idea is not asking to share the experience with God as a blessing would be…but a shame in the circumstance whatever it would be…

so…no natural conscious free blessing…no options.

Weve been told twice…the Conception of Jesus…and Lourdes in the Immaculate Conception determination.

 

[mercytruth]

How can a position be open to options re ensoulment which gives infinite value to conception, and then deny its significance on abortion ?

Open to options is all about, open to finding a way to justify abortion, how could it not…?

Sanctity of life would include reproductive properties of the human, we cannot ask God to bless the indulgence of eating potatoes chips all day, idea’s away from moderation, chewing the finger nails obsessively, all infractions from mild to severe in attention to the sanctity of life. Open to options in order to reach into the women and remove something ?.. if were are open to options it would require an openess Gods blessing. The only prayer I can think of in this idea is not asking to share the experience with God as a blessing would be…but a shame in the circumstance whatever it would be…

so…no natural conscious free blessing…no options.

Weve been told twice…the Conception of Jesus…and Lourdes in the Immaculate Conception determination.

If you are Catholic, you should know that from a philosophic and theological position, the Catholic church does not say when ensoulment occurs, they do say for the sake of practicality, that it occurs at conception. Well, to me that is a bit misleading, so I rather come right out and say I do not know either.

On your remarks about the sanctity of life. Underlying the sanctity of life is the sanctity of our Creator who brings about fertilization, emplantation and the whole development of a human being. In Him we move and have our being. To destroy what our Creator has created at whatever stage of human development is like saying to God, ‘we do not honor you as the Creator, nor to we honor whom you have created.’

The Immaculate Conception is the doctrine that Mary was conceived without original sin, and I have never been able to sort out whether we are speaking of her natural physical being, or her soul. As I understand it, we are all given a perfect soul.

God’s peace to you.

micah

 

[oval]

If you are Catholic, you should know that from a philosophic and theological position, the Catholic church does not say when ensoulment occurs, they do say for the sake of practicality, that it occurs at conception. Well, to me that is a bit misleading, so I rather come right out and say I do not know either.

On your remarks about the sanctity of life. Underlying the sanctity of life is the sanctity of our Creator who brings about fertilization, emplantation and the whole development of a human being. In Him we move and have our being. To destroy what our Creator has created at whatever stage of human development is like saying to God, ‘we do not honor you as the Creator, nor to we honor whom you have created.’

The Immaculate Conception is the doctrine that Mary was conceived without original sin, and I have never been able to sort out whether we are speaking of her natural physical being, or her soul. As I understand it, we are all given a perfect soul.

God’s peace to you.

micah

I’m glad you mentioned the teachings. The teachings play great attention to the sanctity of life…there is no avoiding the themes attention and interest in the constructive naturally intended…

Also the teachings do not say when murder is murder in light of self defense either.

The sanctity of life is a non specific reverence for life… including all attitude and management concerns.

Well, in Lourdes , Mary informed Bernadette that she was the Immaculate Conception, born , conceived without original sin. I enjoy reading some of the older Catholic books…It would be reasonable to assume that the Lourdes event did not take place to heal specifically, it was to tell us , inform us in the sanctity of conception.

A good leader today would easily see a sick culture. A leader would recognize that even though jogging is good, you cannot prescribe jogging to a sick person. People need to heal one step at a time, as does a society. An example and guidance is in order from leadership with support from the healthy toward the family unit, decent lifestyles, UN-brainwashing the mentally disturbed male youth sex maniac.

The female absorbs all the consequential blame in these things…instead of giving her choice…society has taken her choice away by the disordered deformed culture in which she exists.

A women can only say I’m doing my best with this environment, a setting formed up by the bent male. The male is responsible. People do the best they can and make mistakes, everybody makes mistakes…there is no point in trying to say something is not a mistake with word trickery when the only road to healing, is with “knowing”… and going forward with hope.

 

[mercytruth]

I’m glad you mentioned the teachings. The teachings play great attention to the sanctity of life…there is no avoiding the themes attention and interest in the constructive naturally intended…

Also the teachings do not say when murder is murder in light of self defense either.

The sanctity of life is a non specific reverence for life… including all attitude and management concerns.

Well, in Lourdes , Mary informed Bernadette that she was the Immaculate Conception, born , conceived without original sin. I enjoy reading some of the older Catholic books…It would be reasonable to assume that the Lourdes event did not take place to heal specifically, it was to tell us , inform us in the sanctity of conception.

A good leader today would easily see a sick culture. A leader would recognize that even though jogging is good, you cannot prescribe jogging to a sick person. People need to heal one step at a time, as does a society. An example and guidance is in order from leadership with support from the healthy toward the family unit, decent lifestyles, UN-brainwashing the mentally disturbed male youth sex maniac.

The female absorbs all the consequential blame in these things…instead of giving her choice…society has taken her choice away by the disordered deformed culture in which she exists.

A women can only say I’m doing my best with this environment, a setting formed up by the bent male. The male is responsible. People do the best they can and make mistakes, everybody makes mistakes…there is no point in trying to say something is not a mistake with word trickery when the only road to healing, is with “knowing”… and going forward with hope.

Do you want to know something Oval? Eventhough I can barely decipher what you are saying, you know what you are saying, God knows what you are saying, and by God, that’s good enough for me.

His peace be with you,

micah