Does the Immaculate Conception seem a bit... unfair?

[fons_vitae]

Does the Immaculate Conception seem a bit… unfair? I hate to ask it so bluntly, but I always think that the rest of us creatures could have an easier shot at heaven without the encumbrance of original sin.

Is the answer to this dilemma the fact that Adam and Eve didn’t know original sin either, as Our Lady is the new Eve? Even in that case, God had guarded her from the beginning, in a way that (as far as I know) Eve would not have experienced…

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Yeah, I have thought that too.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Life is unfair. That is the truth and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Life is unfair. That is the truth and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.

My mom used to tell me this all the time. It still hasn’t sunk into this thick skull of mine.

 

[jesus4ever]

Dont think however she had a easy life because she didn’t.

Also when MORE is given to one More is expected from them.

 

[Todd977]

Everyone receives sufficient grace to be saved. It is not unfair that some, such as the Virgin Mary, receive more grace than is sufficient.

 

[Petaro]

I wouldn’t put this too loudly. He is very, very fond of His mother.
Why do we line our chalices with the most precious of metals? So the vessel of the Lord must be the best humanity can offer. Do not be jealous of Mary’s immaculate conception. For we must praise God in His beneficence in preparing for His son’s birth, death and Resurrection allowed by her fiat. Our Lady’s immaculate conception is not unfair. It is a gift to all humanity. AMDG

 

[Robyn_p]

Well, technically we get saved from original sin just as she did, just a few months after we’re conceived instead of at the same moment. (Yes I know, it’s not exactly the same, but still.)

But yeah, she did get more graces, because she had a bigger role to play in Salvation History. She got to give birth to God! She kind of needed them. Still, she did have free will, and could have said ‘no’ like Eve did, and the fact is she still had to cooperate with the graces God gave her. Just like we must.

 

[Robyn_p]

Dont think however she had a easy life because she didn’t.

Also when MORE is given to one More is expected from them.

This is very true.

 

[jonathan_hili]

I get your point, Fons, but look at it this way: perhaps if it wasn’t for Mary being immaculately conceived (and consequently agreeing wholeheartedly with God’s plan for her) we would never have had our saviour and would never even have a “shot at heaven”!

Plus, we’ve got confession and the forgiveness of God, which means we can reload anytime we want!

 

[david_patrick]

the dilemma has a persuasive solution, when pope john paul offers an answer to "Does God exist?“persuasive is John Paul ii book, crossing the threshold of hope;
that there is a certain ‘key…’
here is my condensed version (pardon the embellishment) like an american foot ball game-there are two goals-two teams; let’s say the first team is called “the God of Philosophers; the other team-the church; John Paul is quarter back-given, even he must consider:” *As a created being, (man) …experiences his imitations in thousands of ways…” pg 29.

the game is flat on a spiritual playing field of its four edges-100 yards of its length-what is observed in the game-to win the only key to all of human history…,by that throw of a hail mary pass,

-inspired by the moment of a goal-as if to invert a snow globe, it begins to snow-the play is made-the quarter back throws next, the hail mary pass- the quarter back prays;( hail mary full of grace…'full of grace " is her title-…that all generations call her blessed.;knowng by the faith of the church- and as if each snow flake is a prayer of mary to intercede for the weakness of men;the spectators observe the falling snow…the goal is made; there is a peace by the prayers of mary…-the victory in jesus christ.; the key to all human history is in its Lord and master.

*pastoral constitution gaudium et spes second vatican ii

 

[RPRPsych]

Does the Immaculate Conception seem a bit… unfair? I hate to ask it so bluntly, but I always think that the rest of us creatures could have an easier shot at heaven without the encumbrance of original sin.

Is the answer to this dilemma the fact that Adam and Eve didn’t know original sin either, as Our Lady is the new Eve? Even in that case, God had guarded her from the beginning, in a way that (as far as I know) Eve would not have experienced…

“But who are you, O man, to contend with God?” (St. Paul, Epistle to the Romans.)

Just kidding. The fact is that God’s plan of predestination is a mysterious and subtle one, far beyond human comprehension. Why Abraham and not, say, his cousin? Why Jacob and not Esau? Why Judah and not the other 11 tribes? He knows better than us - and as the potter, He can choose one vessel for honour and another for menial use. (St. Paul again!)

Also think of this: if it’s “unfair” that not all of us can be immaculately conceived, how many of us would actually have said Mary’s fiat if we’d been in that situation?

 

[Memaw]

Does the Immaculate Conception seem a bit… unfair? I hate to ask it so bluntly, but I always think that the rest of us creatures could have an easier shot at heaven without the encumbrance of original sin.

Is the answer to this dilemma the fact that Adam and Eve didn’t know original sin either, as Our Lady is the new Eve? Even in that case, God had guarded her from the beginning, in a way that (as far as I know) Eve would not have experienced…

God is never unfair. Adam and Eve knew exactly what they were doing or they wouldn’t have brought on such a consequence to the whole human race. They refused God’s Grace. Look what happened to some of the angels that turned against God!!. I thank GOD for Our Blessed Mother and all she has done for us. We will understand when we get to Heaven. As Patrick Coffin says, “Be a Saint, what else is there”? God Bless, Memaw

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Does the Immaculate Conception seem a bit… unfair? I hate to ask it so bluntly, but I always think that the rest of us creatures could have an easier shot at heaven without the encumbrance of original sin.

Is the answer to this dilemma the fact that Adam and Eve didn’t know original sin either, as Our Lady is the new Eve? Even in that case, God had guarded her from the beginning, in a way that (as far as I know) Eve would not have experienced…

One person is born into wealth, another into poverty. One lives till they’re a hundred, the other is struck down in their teens. One has a great job; another has a terrible job (I still remember a friend telling me about a little Vietnamese guy whose job was to remove the dried concrete from inside the barrels of concrete trucks with a jack hammer. He had earmuffs, but to let him know it was time for a break, they used to bang on the outside of the drum with a sledge hammer. Wanna swap for his job?).

One has an IQ of 150 and a high wage; another has multiple disabilities, and a disability pension controlled by another. One lives in peace all their life; another lives in a war zone for much of their life.

Fair? God’s not fair to a lot of people - certainly not in this life anyway.

I’ll put this on the line, and you can do with it what you like. I had this vision / dream once where someone seemingly died. He was then in terror as something hideous approached. But then another being of light appeared and the hideous being was afraid. The “light” being said to the evil one, “Leave him alone!”

He then turned to the person who’d died and said “I haven’t been fair to you at all…”

There wasn’t much more, but not long after that a friend heard his brother’s remains had been washed up on a farm fence not far from Warwick. It seemed he took shelter under a bridge to get away from driving rain and was overcome by flooding.

Now this bloke -

1. Had alcoholic parents.
2. Had alcohol foetal syndrome, with less than average intelligence.
3. Was taken off his parents, and put in a “boy’s home”.
4. The boy’s home was a cruel place (run by the Anglican Church this time), and many of the orphans turned to crime.
5. At the age of 15 he was put out on the street with no real training, no real family, no real prospects, with less than average intelligence, and no sense of belonging anywhere.

Was God fair to him? Like hell He was.

I personally think the “dream / vision” referred to him. Hopefully God made it up to him somehow, even if he wasn’t an official Christian. I’d really have to wonder about God’s “love” if he didn’t.

 

[tonyrey]

Does the Immaculate Conception seem a bit… unfair? I hate to ask it so bluntly, but I always think that the rest of us creatures could have an easier shot at heaven without the encumbrance of original sin.

Is the answer to this dilemma the fact that Adam and Eve didn’t know original sin either, as Our Lady is the new Eve? Even in that case, God had guarded her from the beginning, in a way that (as far as I know) Eve would not have experienced…

“an easier shot”?

At the Cross her station keeping,
stood the mournful Mother weeping,
close to her Son to the last.

Through her heart, His sorrow sharing,
all His bitter anguish bearing,
now at length the sword has passed.

O how sad and sore distressed
was that Mother, highly blest,
of the sole-begotten One.

Christ above in torment hangs,
she beneath beholds the pangs
of her dying glorious Son.

Is there one who would not weep,
whelmed in miseries so deep,
Christ’s dear Mother to behold?

Can the human heart refrain
from partaking in her pain,
in that Mother’s pain untold?

For the sins of His own nation,
She saw Jesus wracked with torment,
All with scourges rent:

She beheld her tender Child,
Saw Him hang in desolation,
Till His spirit forth He sent.

O thou Mother! fount of love!
Touch my spirit from above,
make my heart with thine accord:

Make me feel as thou hast felt;
make my soul to glow and melt
with the love of Christ my Lord.

Holy Mother! pierce me through,
in my heart each wound renew
of my Savior crucified:

Let me share with thee His pain,
who for all my sins was slain,
who for me in torments died.

Let me mingle tears with thee,
mourning Him who mourned for me,
all the days that I may live:

By the Cross with thee to stay,
there with thee to weep and pray,
is all I ask of thee to give.

Virgin of all virgins blest!,
Listen to my fond request:
let me share thy grief divine;

Let me, to my latest breath,
in my body bear the death
of that dying Son of thine.

Wounded with His every wound,
steep my soul till it hath swooned,
in His very Blood away;

Be to me, O Virgin, nigh,
lest in flames I burn and die,
in His awful Judgment Day.

Christ, when Thou shalt call me hence,
be Thy Mother my defense,
be Thy Cross my victory;

While my body here decays,
may my soul Thy goodness praise,
Safe in Paradise with Thee.

“an easier shot”???

She must have also anticipated what would happen…

 

[tonyrey]

Dont think however she had a easy life because she didn’t.
Also when MORE is given to one More is expected from them.

:clapping: The Stabat Mater movingly describes Mary’s suffering at the foot of the Cross.

 

[crossfaith]

I just want to point out one thing - sure Our Lady was blessed with being born without original sin- BUT have you thought about what she has had to go through because she was the blessed mother of God?

Our lady was the wife of a carpenter - she lived a menial and poor life! Her daily duties would be to sweep the floor prepare the food, create a loving home for her family without our modern technology- or in her day - servants. She was literally the handmaid of the Lord. Each day her hands would be cracked with labor - just from basic living as they all did then, she would have carried a pitch of water each day back and forth from the well, on top of bringing up Jesus.

And then she saw her beloved son die in the most gruesome tortuous way, i mean would you really swap your life for hers? Are you really so jealous of her being born without original sin? you could look at it one way and think “wow shes lucky” but when you look at the pieta you can only see misery and grief. Our lady suffered, born with original sin or not. Or as other commentors have put it, life isnt fair.

 

[Kicks]

:tsktsk: Nah, it’s not unfair. The lady did her job. We have to do ours.

Psalm 139:13-16
For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Your works are wonderful. I know that full well.

My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the Earth, your eyes saw my unformed body.

All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

We are all important and have our roles in the growth of the kingdom of God. Don’t envy the lady’s graces. You’re gathering our own.

 

[Memaw]

One person is born into wealth, another into poverty. One lives till they’re a hundred, the other is struck down in their teens. One has a great job; another has a terrible job (I still remember a friend telling me about a little Vietnamese guy whose job was to remove the dried concrete from inside the barrels of concrete trucks with a jack hammer. He had earmuffs, but to let him know it was time for a break, they used to bang on the outside of the drum with a sledge hammer. Wanna swap for his job?).

One has an IQ of 150 and a high wage; another has multiple disabilities, and a disability pension controlled by another. One lives in peace all their life; another lives in a war zone for much of their life.

Fair? God’s not fair to a lot of people - certainly not in this life anyway.

I’ll put this on the line, and you can do with it what you like. I had this vision / dream once where someone seemingly died. He was then in terror as something hideous approached. But then another being of light appeared and the hideous being was afraid. The “light” being said to the evil one, “Leave him alone!”

He then turned to the person who’d died and said “I haven’t been fair to you at all…”

There wasn’t much more, but not long after that a friend heard his brother’s remains had been washed up on a farm fence not far from Warwick. It seemed he took shelter under a bridge to get away from driving rain and was overcome by flooding.

Now this bloke -

1. Had alcoholic parents.
2. Had alcohol foetal syndrome, with less than average intelligence.
3. Was taken off his parents, and put in a “boy’s home”.
4. The boy’s home was a cruel place (run by the Anglican Church this time), and many of the orphans turned to crime.
5. At the age of 15 he was put out on the street with no real training, no real family, no real prospects, with less than average intelligence, and no sense of belonging anywhere.

Was God fair to him? Like hell He was.

I personally think the “dream / vision” referred to him. Hopefully God made it up to him somehow, even if he wasn’t an official Christian. I’d really have to wonder about God’s “love” if he didn’t.

You don’t suppose Man could have had anything to do with that, down thru the ages??? Man’s inhumanity to Man. After all, we are our Brother’s keeper arent we? Why blame God for all man’s woes when we don’t follow His Will??? I believe those who suffer these woes will be far better off in Eternity, than those who cause them and those who are indifferent to others sufferings. Remember the parable of Lazures and the rich man?? The “dream” has no credibility at all, cause God would never say, “I haven’t been fair to you at all.” Feeling sorry for ourself doesn’t help. God Bless Memaw

 

[tonyrey]

One person is born into wealth, another into poverty. One lives till they’re a hundred, the other is struck down in their teens. One has a great job; another has a terrible job (I still remember a friend telling me about a little Vietnamese guy whose job was to remove the dried concrete from inside the barrels of concrete trucks with a jack hammer. He had earmuffs, but to let him know it was time for a break, they used to bang on the outside of the drum with a sledge hammer. Wanna swap for his job?).

One has an IQ of 150 and a high wage; another has multiple disabilities, and a disability pension controlled by another. One lives in peace all their life; another lives in a war zone for much of their life.

Fair? God’s not fair to a lot of people - certainly not in this life anyway.

I’ll put this on the line, and you can do with it what you like. I had this vision / dream once where someone seemingly died. He was then in terror as something hideous approached. But then another being of light appeared and the hideous being was afraid. The “light” being said to the evil one, “Leave him alone!”

He then turned to the person who’d died and said “I haven’t been fair to you at all…”

There wasn’t much more, but not long after that a friend heard his brother’s remains had been washed up on a farm fence not far from Warwick. It seemed he took shelter under a bridge to get away from driving rain and was overcome by flooding.

Now this bloke -

1. Had alcoholic parents.
2. Had alcohol foetal syndrome, with less than average intelligence.
3. Was taken off his parents, and put in a “boy’s home”.
4. The boy’s home was a cruel place (run by the Anglican Church this time), and many of the orphans turned to crime.
5. At the age of 15 he was put out on the street with no real training, no real family, no real prospects, with less than average intelligence, and no sense of belonging anywhere.

Was God fair to him? Like hell He was.

I personally think the “dream / vision” referred to him. Hopefully God made it up to him somehow, even if he wasn’t an official Christian. I’d really have to wonder about God’s “love” if he didn’t.

Why do you believe in God?