G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Deacon Ed:
- Status
D
Deacon_Ed
Guest
Ah, the pot calling the kettle black.
Once again your reveal your ignorance. You claim to be a “seminary dropout” – I can certainly understand that.
Time for education (if, indeed, you are educable). There are 22 Churches that form the Catholic Church. The largest of these is the Latin or Roman Catholic Church. There are also the Eastern Catholic Churches which use at least five different rites. The Byzantine Rite encompases 14 Churches of which the Melkite Greek Catholic Church is one. The Melkites have been in communion with Rome since the middle of the 18th century.
You have demonstrated over and over again your ignorance about things Catholic. Don’t you think it’s time you stopped and thought about what you are doing?
Deacon Ed
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
AFAIK, none of the translators of the Douai NT of 1582 or the Reims OT of 1609 has been canonised.
Why is it so out of the question that modern bishops and modern scholars may know a thing or two about the Bible that earlier ones did not ?
Why choose the 1500s in particular ?What is wrong or unorthodox with being later than the 1500s ?
What “teachings” are the “changes” in question against ?
What is it about the DR - in fact, the version commonly so named is not the DR at all, but a revision of it that began to be published in 1749 - that makes it the standard by which versions today are to be measured ?
Pius XII - not usually regarded as a Modernist - explicitly encouraged the making of versions from the original languages; here is a snippet, and a link:
- On the contrary in this our time, not only the Greek language, which since the humanistic renaissance has been, as it were, restored to new life, is familiar to almost all students of antiquity and letters, but the knowledge of Hebrew also and of their oriental languages has spread far and wide among literary men. Moreover there are now such abundant aids to the study of these languages that the biblical scholar, who by neglecting them would deprive himself of access to the original texts, could in no wise escape the stigma of levity and sloth. For it is the duty of the exegete to lay hold, so to speak, with the greatest care and reverence of the very least expressions which, under the inspiration of the Divine Spirit, have flowed from the pen of the sacred writer, so as to arrive at a deeper and fuller knowledge of his meaning.
- Wherefore let him diligently apply himself so as to acquire daily a greater facility in biblical as well as in other oriental languages and to support his interpretation by the aids which all branches of philology supply. This indeed St. Jerome strove earnestly to achieve, as far as the science of his time permitted; to this also aspired with untiring zeal and no small fruit not a few of the great exegetes of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, although the knowledge of languages then was much less than at the present day. In like manner therefore ought we to explain the original text which, having been written by the inspired author himself, has more authority and greater weight than any even the very best translation, whether ancient or modern; this can be done all the more easily and fruitfully, if to the knowledge of languages be joined a real skill in literary criticism of the same text…
Pius XII was capable of valuing tradition without rejecting whatever was not traditional - why is it so hard for some Christians to value what is new, without rejecting what is old ? Neither is enough by itself. ##
C
CrusaderNY
Guest
In union means nothing…It is Orthodox with a Patriarch at the head
**THE VATICAN AND THE ORTHODOX **“I believe that the Vatican and the Orthodox have to be converted. Not just one part, but rather both parts of the church need conversion.”
The author of this prophetic statement is His Beatitude, Maximos V Hakim, Greek Catholic Patriarch of Antioch and all the East, of Jerusalem and of Alexandria - St. Peter’s successor as bishop of Antioch.
“There is still a lot to do between the Catholic and Orthodox churches.” the patriarch continued, “the way the Vatican is treating Eastern Catholic churches, for example, is not the way it should be.”
On March 22, the patriarch, accompanied by his assistant, Archimandrite Jean Jeanbart, general secretary of the International Melkite Catholic Union, and Bishop Nicolas Samra, auxiliary bishop of the Melkite Eparchy of Newton, Mass., was the guest of Catholic Near East Welfare Association at the agency’s New York headquarters. The patriarch, who presently resides in the Syrian capital of Damascus, visited North America to ordain Basilian Father Ignatius Ghattas as bishop of the Eparchy of Newton.
Patriarch Hakim has been in the forefront of Catholic-Orthodox dialogue and interfaith dialogue between Christians, Muslims and Jews. His leadership is by deeds and example, not mere words.
One of the most powerful examples of this patriarch’s devotion to ecumenism is the renewal of the Melkite Church. The Melkite Catholic Church is an Orthodox Church that is in union with Rome. Its spirituality, theology, prayer life and liturgy follows the traditions of the Orthodox churches, yet it accepts the jurisdiction of the pope.
Due to the influence of western missionaries and contact with the Latin-rite hierarchy in the United States, the Melkite Church had lost some of these Eastern characteristics. Liturgically and spiritually, the pre-Vatican II church existed as a minor rite within the larger Roman Catholic Church. Western traditions, such as First Holy Communion, Stations of the Cross and Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament became a part of the Melkite Church’s liturgical life. Though powerful expressions of the Roman Catholic faith, these traditions are not essential to the spirit of Eastern Christianity.
The Orthodox, fearful of the loss of their identity and independence, have pointed to such additions in the Eastern churches as Latin attempts to homogenize. Thus, the Eastern Catholic churches, whose raison d’etre was to serve as a bridge of unity between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, became a source of discord.
Since his election as patriarch in 1968, Patriarch Hakim has worked for the renewal of Eastern traditions. [p.23]
“We want to live according to our Eastern spirituality, which is not yet 100 percent acquired,” he said.
The renewal of the Melkite Church requires great tact, tremendous insight, patience and Christian sensitivity. The patriarch is aware of his peoples’ devotion and attachment to the outward signs of their faith. Changes must come slowly so as not to confuse or alienate the people, he said, “but the way is for de-Latinization, with the help of the Holy Father himself.”
The Melkite Catholic Church is one of the oldest living expressions of the Catholic faith. “Melkite” is Arabic for followers of the emperor, subjects who accepted the teachings of the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon of 451, which declared Jesus Christ both divine and human. Those who rejected this stat-sponsored council-Armenians, Copts of Egypt, Ethiopians and Syrians-opposed the Byzantine emperor’s attempts to centralize and control the church.
Harkening back to his Church’s roots, Patriarch Hakim noted with humor, “We are the imperialists of the fifth century!”
Fifteen centuries later, the differences between those who accepted the Council of Chalcedon and those who rejected it are viewed as political and not theological. “We discovered that we are the same,” said the patriarch. “Today we live together in peace after many centuries of war.”
There are about one and a half million Melkite Catholics worldwide. Originally an Arabic church, many of the Church’s 500,000 Middle Eastern adherents have left the Middle East and emigrated to Australia, Canada, Europe and the United States. [p.24]
This year marks the 100th anniversary of the establishment of the Melkite Church in the United States which presently claims more than 100,000 believers.
"
Vincent:
**THE VATICAN AND THE ORTHODOX **“I believe that the Vatican and the Orthodox have to be converted. Not just one part, but rather both parts of the church need conversion.”
The author of this prophetic statement is His Beatitude, Maximos V Hakim, Greek Catholic Patriarch of Antioch and all the East, of Jerusalem and of Alexandria - St. Peter’s successor as bishop of Antioch.
“There is still a lot to do between the Catholic and Orthodox churches.” the patriarch continued, “the way the Vatican is treating Eastern Catholic churches, for example, is not the way it should be.”
On March 22, the patriarch, accompanied by his assistant, Archimandrite Jean Jeanbart, general secretary of the International Melkite Catholic Union, and Bishop Nicolas Samra, auxiliary bishop of the Melkite Eparchy of Newton, Mass., was the guest of Catholic Near East Welfare Association at the agency’s New York headquarters. The patriarch, who presently resides in the Syrian capital of Damascus, visited North America to ordain Basilian Father Ignatius Ghattas as bishop of the Eparchy of Newton.
Patriarch Hakim has been in the forefront of Catholic-Orthodox dialogue and interfaith dialogue between Christians, Muslims and Jews. His leadership is by deeds and example, not mere words.
One of the most powerful examples of this patriarch’s devotion to ecumenism is the renewal of the Melkite Church. The Melkite Catholic Church is an Orthodox Church that is in union with Rome. Its spirituality, theology, prayer life and liturgy follows the traditions of the Orthodox churches, yet it accepts the jurisdiction of the pope.
Due to the influence of western missionaries and contact with the Latin-rite hierarchy in the United States, the Melkite Church had lost some of these Eastern characteristics. Liturgically and spiritually, the pre-Vatican II church existed as a minor rite within the larger Roman Catholic Church. Western traditions, such as First Holy Communion, Stations of the Cross and Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament became a part of the Melkite Church’s liturgical life. Though powerful expressions of the Roman Catholic faith, these traditions are not essential to the spirit of Eastern Christianity.
The Orthodox, fearful of the loss of their identity and independence, have pointed to such additions in the Eastern churches as Latin attempts to homogenize. Thus, the Eastern Catholic churches, whose raison d’etre was to serve as a bridge of unity between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, became a source of discord.
Since his election as patriarch in 1968, Patriarch Hakim has worked for the renewal of Eastern traditions. [p.23]
“We want to live according to our Eastern spirituality, which is not yet 100 percent acquired,” he said.
The renewal of the Melkite Church requires great tact, tremendous insight, patience and Christian sensitivity. The patriarch is aware of his peoples’ devotion and attachment to the outward signs of their faith. Changes must come slowly so as not to confuse or alienate the people, he said, “but the way is for de-Latinization, with the help of the Holy Father himself.”
The Melkite Catholic Church is one of the oldest living expressions of the Catholic faith. “Melkite” is Arabic for followers of the emperor, subjects who accepted the teachings of the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon of 451, which declared Jesus Christ both divine and human. Those who rejected this stat-sponsored council-Armenians, Copts of Egypt, Ethiopians and Syrians-opposed the Byzantine emperor’s attempts to centralize and control the church.
Harkening back to his Church’s roots, Patriarch Hakim noted with humor, “We are the imperialists of the fifth century!”
Fifteen centuries later, the differences between those who accepted the Council of Chalcedon and those who rejected it are viewed as political and not theological. “We discovered that we are the same,” said the patriarch. “Today we live together in peace after many centuries of war.”
There are about one and a half million Melkite Catholics worldwide. Originally an Arabic church, many of the Church’s 500,000 Middle Eastern adherents have left the Middle East and emigrated to Australia, Canada, Europe and the United States. [p.24]
This year marks the 100th anniversary of the establishment of the Melkite Church in the United States which presently claims more than 100,000 believers.
"
C
CrusaderNY
Guest
Ignorance and defiant…the Melkite church is no different than the Leferbverist, you follow the Orthodox but swear allegiance to the Pope. Hipocritical
The Melkite Catholic Church is an Orthodox Church that is in union with Rome. Its spirituality, theology, prayer life and liturgy follows the traditions of the Orthodox churches, yet it accepts the jurisdiction of the pope.
Deacon Ed:
The Melkite Catholic Church is an Orthodox Church that is in union with Rome. Its spirituality, theology, prayer life and liturgy follows the traditions of the Orthodox churches, yet it accepts the jurisdiction of the pope.
Deacon Ed:
D
Deacon_Ed
Guest
CrusaderNY said:
Wrong, but why should I expect anything different – you’ve demonstrated your inability to read and understand anything.
We are Catholic. Our Patriarch, Gregory III, is in communion with Rome. We do not “follow the Orthodox” – but we do retain our Orthodox traditions – big difference. What are those traditions? We celebrate the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil and the Presanctified Liturgy instead of saying “the Mass.” We baptize, chrismate (confirm) and eucharize infants and, consequently, infants are free to receive communion at Liturgy. We call them “mysteries” instead of “sacraments.” Our theology is apophatic instead of cataphatic (sorry, big words).
So, in the sense of tradition, we are Orthodox – although the Orthodox consider us schismatics and heretics because we are in union with Rome. Then, there are people like you (have you ever heard of the “Know-Nothings”?) who think if one isn’t Roman Catholic one isn’t Catholic.
If you’d even read what you posted:
You might not have made the statement you made because it is very clears that we, indeed, Catholic.
You, sir, are both arrogant and ignorant.
Deacon Ed
V
Vincent
Guest
Maybe the following info from the pre-Vatican II Catholic Encyclopedia would help:
(Emphasis in the original)
Nihil Obstat, May 1, 1909. Remy Lafort, Censor
Imprimatur. +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York
Nihil Obstat, May 1, 1909. Remy Lafort, Censor
Imprimatur. +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York
Melkites are Eastern-Rite Catholics. And Eastern-Rite Catholics "are entirely and uncompromisingly Catholics in our strictest sense of the word, quite as much as Latins. They accept the whole Catholic Faith and the authority of the pope as visible head of the Catholic Church, as did St. Athanasius, St. Basil, St. John Chrysostom."
H
HagiaSophia
Guest
From St. Michael’s Ukrainian Rite Church webpage:
The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ nearly two thousand years ago through His apostles and disciples. The Church consists of the faithful united though the Holy Spirit by faith, the seven sacraments, and leadership. The visible head of the Catholic Church is the Pope of Rome who is the successor to St. Peter, the vicar of Christ, and universal teacher of religious truth.
The early Church originated in the Middle East and spread throughout the world. As the Church spread, it encountered a variety of cultures. The coupling of Christianity with these cultures resulted in different forms of worship and expressions of faith. While the forms of worship, or rites varied from region to region, the fundamental truths of Catholicism remained the same.
The early Church established local churches in the major centers of the Roman Empire: Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Rome, and Constantinople. When the Roman Empire was divided into East and West in 395 AD, the local churches became closely related to the structure of the state. Political divisions became models for ecclesiastical division, and the tendency was for each political division to have its own local church. This can be seen in how the Catholic Church is structured today. It consists of Western Rites and Eastern Rites. The Western Rites consist of those ancient traditions whose center was Rome. The Eastern Rites consist of the Christian communities whose centers were Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandra.
The various Rites vary from one another with regards to their Eucharistic Liturgies, fasting regulations, celebration of holy days, art, architecture, etc. Each Rite is autonomous in that each has its own canons, ecclesiastical discipline, and spiritual hierarchy. However, each Rite maintains the Sacraments (Mysteries), the fundamental teachings of the Church (the Incarnation, Resurrection, the Blessed Trinity, …) and stresses the common Apostolic Tradition. All Rites within the Catholic Church are of equal dignity. Differences in forms of worship do not compromise the essential unity of the Church. Catholics of various Rites are encouraged to worship in each other’s Churches, including receiving the Sacramental Mysteries of Reconciliation (Penance) and the Holy Eucharist.
RITES (From EWTN)
A Rite represents an ecclesiastical, or church, tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated. Each of the sacraments has at its core an essential nature which must be satisfied for the sacrament to be confected or realized. This essence - of matter, form and intention - derives from the divinely revealed nature of the particular sacrament. It cannot be changed by the Church. Scripture and Sacred Tradition, as interpreted by the Magisterium, tells us what is essential in each of the sacraments (2 Thes. 2:15).*
When the apostles brought the Gospel to the major cultural centers of their day the essential elements of religious practice were inculturated into those cultures. This means that the essential elements were clothed in the symbols and trappings of the particular people, so that the rituals conveyed the desired spiritual meaning to that culture. In this way the Church becomes all things to all men that some might be saved (1 Cor. 9:22).
There are three major groupings of Rites based on this initial transmission of the faith, the Roman, the Antiochian (Syria) and the Alexandrian (Egypt). Later on the Byzantine derived as a major Rite from the Antiochian, under the influence of St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom. From these four derive the over 20 liturgical Rites present in the Church today.
Eastern Rites and Churches
They have their own hierarchy distinct from the Latin Rite, system of governance (synods) and general law, the Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches. The Supreme Pontiff exercises his primacy over them through the Congregation for the Eastern Churches.
The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ nearly two thousand years ago through His apostles and disciples. The Church consists of the faithful united though the Holy Spirit by faith, the seven sacraments, and leadership. The visible head of the Catholic Church is the Pope of Rome who is the successor to St. Peter, the vicar of Christ, and universal teacher of religious truth.
The early Church originated in the Middle East and spread throughout the world. As the Church spread, it encountered a variety of cultures. The coupling of Christianity with these cultures resulted in different forms of worship and expressions of faith. While the forms of worship, or rites varied from region to region, the fundamental truths of Catholicism remained the same.
The early Church established local churches in the major centers of the Roman Empire: Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Rome, and Constantinople. When the Roman Empire was divided into East and West in 395 AD, the local churches became closely related to the structure of the state. Political divisions became models for ecclesiastical division, and the tendency was for each political division to have its own local church. This can be seen in how the Catholic Church is structured today. It consists of Western Rites and Eastern Rites. The Western Rites consist of those ancient traditions whose center was Rome. The Eastern Rites consist of the Christian communities whose centers were Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandra.
The various Rites vary from one another with regards to their Eucharistic Liturgies, fasting regulations, celebration of holy days, art, architecture, etc. Each Rite is autonomous in that each has its own canons, ecclesiastical discipline, and spiritual hierarchy. However, each Rite maintains the Sacraments (Mysteries), the fundamental teachings of the Church (the Incarnation, Resurrection, the Blessed Trinity, …) and stresses the common Apostolic Tradition. All Rites within the Catholic Church are of equal dignity. Differences in forms of worship do not compromise the essential unity of the Church. Catholics of various Rites are encouraged to worship in each other’s Churches, including receiving the Sacramental Mysteries of Reconciliation (Penance) and the Holy Eucharist.
RITES (From EWTN)
A Rite represents an ecclesiastical, or church, tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated. Each of the sacraments has at its core an essential nature which must be satisfied for the sacrament to be confected or realized. This essence - of matter, form and intention - derives from the divinely revealed nature of the particular sacrament. It cannot be changed by the Church. Scripture and Sacred Tradition, as interpreted by the Magisterium, tells us what is essential in each of the sacraments (2 Thes. 2:15).*
When the apostles brought the Gospel to the major cultural centers of their day the essential elements of religious practice were inculturated into those cultures. This means that the essential elements were clothed in the symbols and trappings of the particular people, so that the rituals conveyed the desired spiritual meaning to that culture. In this way the Church becomes all things to all men that some might be saved (1 Cor. 9:22).
There are three major groupings of Rites based on this initial transmission of the faith, the Roman, the Antiochian (Syria) and the Alexandrian (Egypt). Later on the Byzantine derived as a major Rite from the Antiochian, under the influence of St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom. From these four derive the over 20 liturgical Rites present in the Church today.
Eastern Rites and Churches
They have their own hierarchy distinct from the Latin Rite, system of governance (synods) and general law, the Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches. The Supreme Pontiff exercises his primacy over them through the Congregation for the Eastern Churches.
H
HagiaSophia
Guest
ANTIOCHIAN
The Church of Antioch in Syria (on the Mediterranean coast) is considered an apostolic see by virtue of having been founded by St. Peter. It was one of the ancient centers of the Church, as the New Testament attests, and is the source of a family of similar Rites using the ancient Syriac language (the Semitic dialect used in Jesus’ time and better known as Aramaic). Its Liturgy is attributed to St. James and the Church of Jerusalem.
• Malankarese - Catholics from the South of India evangelized by St. Thomas, uses the West Syriac liturgy. Reunited with Rome in 1930. Liturgical languages today are West Syriac and Malayalam. The 350,000 Malankarese Catholics are found in India and North America.
*
BYZANTINE
The Church of Constantinople became the political and religious center of the eastern Roman Empire after the Emperor Constantine built a new capital there (324-330) on the site of the ancient town of Byzantium. Constantinople developed its own liturgical rite from the Liturgy of St. James, in one form as modified by St. Basil, and in a more commonly used form, as modified by St. John Chrysostom. After 1054, except for brief periods of reunion, most Byzantine Christians have not been in communion with Rome. They make up the Orthodox Churches of the East, whose titular head is the Patriarch of Constantinople. The Orthodox Churches are mostly auto-cephalous, meaning self-headed, united to each other by communion with Constantinople, which exercises no real authority over them. They are typically divided into Churches along nation lines. Those that have returned to communion with the Holy See are represented among the Eastern Churches and Rites of the Catholic Church.
• Bulgarian - Bulgarians who returned to Rome in 1861. Liturgical language is Old Slavonic. The 20,000 faithful can be found in Bulgaria. Most Bulgarian Christians are Bulgarian Orthodox.
• Czech - Czech Catholics of Byzantine Rite organized into a jurisdiction in 1996.
• Krizevci - Croatian Catholics of Byzantine Rite who resumed communion with Rome in 1611. The liturgical language is Old Slavonic.* The 50,000 faithful can be found in Croatia and the Americas. Most Croatians are Roman (Rite) Catholics.
(cont’d)
The Church of Antioch in Syria (on the Mediterranean coast) is considered an apostolic see by virtue of having been founded by St. Peter. It was one of the ancient centers of the Church, as the New Testament attests, and is the source of a family of similar Rites using the ancient Syriac language (the Semitic dialect used in Jesus’ time and better known as Aramaic). Its Liturgy is attributed to St. James and the Church of Jerusalem.
- WEST SYRIAN
• Maronite - Never separated from Rome. Maronite Patriarch of Antioch. The liturgical language* is Aramaic. The 3 million Maronites are found in Lebanon (origin), Cyprus, Egypt, Syria, Israel, Canada, US, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and Australia.
• Malankarese - Catholics from the South of India evangelized by St. Thomas, uses the West Syriac liturgy. Reunited with Rome in 1930. Liturgical languages today are West Syriac and Malayalam. The 350,000 Malankarese Catholics are found in India and North America.
- EAST SYRIAN
• Chaldean - Babylonian Catholics returned to Rome in 1692 from the Nestorian heresy. Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans. Liturgical languages are Syriac and Arabic. The 310,000 Chaldean Catholics are found in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey and the US.
*
BYZANTINE
The Church of Constantinople became the political and religious center of the eastern Roman Empire after the Emperor Constantine built a new capital there (324-330) on the site of the ancient town of Byzantium. Constantinople developed its own liturgical rite from the Liturgy of St. James, in one form as modified by St. Basil, and in a more commonly used form, as modified by St. John Chrysostom. After 1054, except for brief periods of reunion, most Byzantine Christians have not been in communion with Rome. They make up the Orthodox Churches of the East, whose titular head is the Patriarch of Constantinople. The Orthodox Churches are mostly auto-cephalous, meaning self-headed, united to each other by communion with Constantinople, which exercises no real authority over them. They are typically divided into Churches along nation lines. Those that have returned to communion with the Holy See are represented among the Eastern Churches and Rites of the Catholic Church.
- ARMENIAN
Considered either its own Rite or an older version of the Byzantine. Its exact form is not used by any other Byzantine Rite. It is composed of Catholics from the first people to convert as a nation, the Armenians (N.E. of* Turkey), and who returned to Rome at the time of the Crusades. Patriarch of Cilicia of the Armenians. The liturgical language is classical Armenian. The 350,000 Armenian Catholics are found in Armenia, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Turkey, Egypt, Greece, Ukraine, France, Romania, United States and Argentina. Most Armenians are Orthodox, not in union with Rome. - BYZANTINE
• Albanian - Albanian Christians, numbering only 1400 today, who resumed communion with Rome in 1628. Liturgical language is Albanian. Most Albanian Christians are Albanian Orthodox.
• Bulgarian - Bulgarians who returned to Rome in 1861. Liturgical language is Old Slavonic. The 20,000 faithful can be found in Bulgaria. Most Bulgarian Christians are Bulgarian Orthodox.
• Czech - Czech Catholics of Byzantine Rite organized into a jurisdiction in 1996.
• Krizevci - Croatian Catholics of Byzantine Rite who resumed communion with Rome in 1611. The liturgical language is Old Slavonic.* The 50,000 faithful can be found in Croatia and the Americas. Most Croatians are Roman (Rite) Catholics.
(cont’d)
H
HagiaSophia
Guest
• Greek - Greek Christians who returned to Rome in 1829. The liturgical language is Greek. Only 2500 faithful in Greece, Asia Minor (Turkey) and Europe. Greek Christians are almost all Orthodox, whose Patriarch is the Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople.
• Hungarian - Descendants of Ruthenians who returned to Rome in 1646. The liturgical languages are Greek, Hungarian and English. The 300,000 faithful are found in Hungary, Europe and the Americas.
• Italo-Albanian - Never separated from Rome, these 60,000 Byzantine Rite Catholics are found in Italy, Sicily and the Americas. The liturgical languages are Greek and Italo-Albanian.
• Melkite - Catholics from among those separated from Rome in Syria and Egypt who resumed Communion with Rome at the time of the Crusades. However, definitive union only came in the 18th century. Melkite Greek Patriarch of Damascus. Liturgical languages are Greek, Arabic, English, Portuguese and Spanish. The over 1 million Melkite Catholics can be found in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Canada, US, Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina and Australia.
• Romanian - Romanians who returned to Rome in 1697. The liturgical language is Romanian. There are over 1 million Romanian Catholics in Romania, Europe and the Americas. Most Romanian Christians are Romanian Orthodox.
• Russian - Russians who returned to communion with Rome in 1905. The liturgical language is Old Slavonic. An unknown number of the faithful in Russia, China, the Americas and Australia. Most Russian Christians are Russian Orthodox, whose Patriarch is the Orthodox Patriarch of Moscow.
• Ruthenian - Catholics from among those separated from Rome in Russia, Hungary and Croatia who reunited with Rome in 1596 (Brest-Litovsk) and 1646 (Uzhorod).
• Slovak - Byzantine Rite Catholics of Slovakian origin numbering 225,000 and found in Slovakia and Canada.
• Ukrainian - Catholics from among those separated from Rome by the Greek Schism and reunited about 1595. Patriarch or Metropolitan of Lviv. Liturgical languages are Old Slavonic and the vernacular. The 5.5 million Ukrainian Catholics can be found in Ukraine, Poland, England, Germany, France, Canada, US, Brazil, Argentina and Australia. During the Soviet era Ukrainian Catholics were violently forced to join the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Their hierarchy, which continued to exist outside the homeland, has since been re-established in Ukraine.
ALEXANDRIAN
The Church of Alexandria in Egypt was one of the original centers of Christianity, since like Rome and Antioch it had a large Jewish population which was the initial object of apostolic evangelization. Its Liturgy is attributed to St. Mark the Evangelist, and shows the later influence of the Byzantine Liturgy, in addition to its unique elements.
• Coptic - Egyptian Catholics who returned to communion with Rome in 1741. The Patriarch of Alexandria leads the 200,000 faithful of this ritual Church spread throughout Egypt and the Near East.* The liturgical languages are Coptic (Egyptian) and Arabic. Most Copts are not Catholics.
• Ethiopian/Abyssinian - Ethiopian Coptic Christians who returned to Rome in 1846. The liturgical language is Geez. The 200,000 faithful are found in Ethiopia, Eritrea,* Somalia, and Jerusalem.
• Hungarian - Descendants of Ruthenians who returned to Rome in 1646. The liturgical languages are Greek, Hungarian and English. The 300,000 faithful are found in Hungary, Europe and the Americas.
• Italo-Albanian - Never separated from Rome, these 60,000 Byzantine Rite Catholics are found in Italy, Sicily and the Americas. The liturgical languages are Greek and Italo-Albanian.
• Melkite - Catholics from among those separated from Rome in Syria and Egypt who resumed Communion with Rome at the time of the Crusades. However, definitive union only came in the 18th century. Melkite Greek Patriarch of Damascus. Liturgical languages are Greek, Arabic, English, Portuguese and Spanish. The over 1 million Melkite Catholics can be found in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Canada, US, Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina and Australia.
• Romanian - Romanians who returned to Rome in 1697. The liturgical language is Romanian. There are over 1 million Romanian Catholics in Romania, Europe and the Americas. Most Romanian Christians are Romanian Orthodox.
• Russian - Russians who returned to communion with Rome in 1905. The liturgical language is Old Slavonic. An unknown number of the faithful in Russia, China, the Americas and Australia. Most Russian Christians are Russian Orthodox, whose Patriarch is the Orthodox Patriarch of Moscow.
• Ruthenian - Catholics from among those separated from Rome in Russia, Hungary and Croatia who reunited with Rome in 1596 (Brest-Litovsk) and 1646 (Uzhorod).
• Slovak - Byzantine Rite Catholics of Slovakian origin numbering 225,000 and found in Slovakia and Canada.
• Ukrainian - Catholics from among those separated from Rome by the Greek Schism and reunited about 1595. Patriarch or Metropolitan of Lviv. Liturgical languages are Old Slavonic and the vernacular. The 5.5 million Ukrainian Catholics can be found in Ukraine, Poland, England, Germany, France, Canada, US, Brazil, Argentina and Australia. During the Soviet era Ukrainian Catholics were violently forced to join the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Their hierarchy, which continued to exist outside the homeland, has since been re-established in Ukraine.
ALEXANDRIAN
The Church of Alexandria in Egypt was one of the original centers of Christianity, since like Rome and Antioch it had a large Jewish population which was the initial object of apostolic evangelization. Its Liturgy is attributed to St. Mark the Evangelist, and shows the later influence of the Byzantine Liturgy, in addition to its unique elements.
• Coptic - Egyptian Catholics who returned to communion with Rome in 1741. The Patriarch of Alexandria leads the 200,000 faithful of this ritual Church spread throughout Egypt and the Near East.* The liturgical languages are Coptic (Egyptian) and Arabic. Most Copts are not Catholics.
• Ethiopian/Abyssinian - Ethiopian Coptic Christians who returned to Rome in 1846. The liturgical language is Geez. The 200,000 faithful are found in Ethiopia, Eritrea,* Somalia, and Jerusalem.
C
CrusaderNY
Guest
I repeat, Communion or not, it is just like the Lefebvrists…They are doing what they want, adhering to the ORTHODOX faith and traditions, and as the PATRIARCH (funny, I as a CATHOLIC have NO PATRIARCH) and say they are in Communion with ROME Patricarch Hakim??? “Accepts the Jurisdiction of Rome”???
It has now been EXPOSED
Just like St Pius X…I have and many on this board now know the truth and why there are so many NON-Catholics in so called "Communion with Rome or whatever) who are so in favor of Ecumenism and are wolfs in sheeps clothing, including the Deacon who says he does Catholic and then Melkite Masses…
Patriarch Hakim has been in the forefront of Catholic-Orthodox dialogue and **interfaith **dialogue between Christians, Muslims and Jews. His leadership is by deeds and example, not mere words.
One of the most powerful examples of this patriarch’s **devotion to ecumenism is the renewal of the Melkite Church. ****The Melkite Catholic Church is an Orthodox Church that is in union with Rome. Its spirituality, theology, prayer life and liturgy follows the traditions of the Orthodox churches, yet it accepts the jurisdiction of the pope.
**
Due to the influence of western missionaries and contact with the Latin-rite hierarchy in the United States, the Melkite Church had lost some of these Eastern characteristics. Liturgically and spiritually, the pre-Vatican II church existed as a minor rite within the larger Roman Catholic Church. Western traditions, such as First Holy Communion, Stations of the Cross and Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament became a part of the Melkite Church’s liturgical life. Though powerful expressions of the Roman Catholic faith, these traditions are not essential to the spirit of Eastern Christianity.
The Orthodox, fearful of the loss of their identity and independence, have pointed to such additions in the Eastern churches as Latin attempts to homogenize. Thus, the Eastern Catholic churches, whose raison d’etre was to serve as a bridge of unity between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, became a source of discord.
Since his election as patriarch in 1968, Patriarch Hakim has worked for the renewal of Eastern traditions. [p.23]
“We want to live according to our Eastern spirituality, which is not yet 100 percent acquired,” he said.
It has now been EXPOSED
Just like St Pius X…I have and many on this board now know the truth and why there are so many NON-Catholics in so called "Communion with Rome or whatever) who are so in favor of Ecumenism and are wolfs in sheeps clothing, including the Deacon who says he does Catholic and then Melkite Masses…
Patriarch Hakim has been in the forefront of Catholic-Orthodox dialogue and **interfaith **dialogue between Christians, Muslims and Jews. His leadership is by deeds and example, not mere words.
One of the most powerful examples of this patriarch’s **devotion to ecumenism is the renewal of the Melkite Church. ****The Melkite Catholic Church is an Orthodox Church that is in union with Rome. Its spirituality, theology, prayer life and liturgy follows the traditions of the Orthodox churches, yet it accepts the jurisdiction of the pope.
**
Due to the influence of western missionaries and contact with the Latin-rite hierarchy in the United States, the Melkite Church had lost some of these Eastern characteristics. Liturgically and spiritually, the pre-Vatican II church existed as a minor rite within the larger Roman Catholic Church. Western traditions, such as First Holy Communion, Stations of the Cross and Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament became a part of the Melkite Church’s liturgical life. Though powerful expressions of the Roman Catholic faith, these traditions are not essential to the spirit of Eastern Christianity.
The Orthodox, fearful of the loss of their identity and independence, have pointed to such additions in the Eastern churches as Latin attempts to homogenize. Thus, the Eastern Catholic churches, whose raison d’etre was to serve as a bridge of unity between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, became a source of discord.
Since his election as patriarch in 1968, Patriarch Hakim has worked for the renewal of Eastern traditions. [p.23]
“We want to live according to our Eastern spirituality, which is not yet 100 percent acquired,” he said.
HagiaSophia said:
C
CrusaderNY
Guest
I repeat, Communion or not, it is just like the Lefebvrists…They are doing what they want, adhering to the ORTHODOX faith and traditions, and as the PATRIARCH (funny, I as a CATHOLIC have NO PATRIARCH) and say they are in Communion with ROME Patricarch Hakim??? “Accepts the Jurisdiction of Rome”??? Wants to live according to the EASTERN traditions???
It has now been EXPOSED
Just like St Pius X…I have and many on this board now know the truth and why there are so many NON-Catholics in so called "Communion with Rome or whatever) who are so in favor of Ecumenism and are wolfs in sheeps clothing, including the Deacon who says he does Catholic and then Melkite Masses…
Patriarch Hakim has been in the forefront of Catholic-Orthodox dialogue and **interfaith **dialogue between Christians, Muslims and Jews. His leadership is by deeds and example, not mere words.
One of the most powerful examples of this patriarch’s **devotion to ecumenism is the renewal of the Melkite Church. ****The Melkite Catholic Church is an Orthodox Church that is in union with Rome. Its spirituality, theology, prayer life and liturgy follows the traditions of the Orthodox churches, yet it accepts the jurisdiction of the pope.
**
Due to the influence of western missionaries and contact with the Latin-rite hierarchy in the United States, the Melkite Church had lost some of these Eastern characteristics. Liturgically and spiritually, the pre-Vatican II church existed as a minor rite within the larger Roman Catholic Church. Western traditions, such as First Holy Communion, Stations of the Cross and Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament became a part of the Melkite Church’s liturgical life. Though powerful expressions of the Roman Catholic faith, these traditions are not essential to the spirit of Eastern Christianity.
The Orthodox, fearful of the loss of their identity and independence, have pointed to such additions in the Eastern churches as Latin attempts to homogenize. Thus, the Eastern Catholic churches, whose raison d’etre was to serve as a bridge of unity between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, became a source of discord.
**Since his election as patriarch in 1968, Patriarch Hakim has worked for the renewal of Eastern traditions. [p.23]
“We want to live according to our Eastern spirituality, which is not yet 100 percent acquired,” he said****.**
It has now been EXPOSED
Just like St Pius X…I have and many on this board now know the truth and why there are so many NON-Catholics in so called "Communion with Rome or whatever) who are so in favor of Ecumenism and are wolfs in sheeps clothing, including the Deacon who says he does Catholic and then Melkite Masses…
Patriarch Hakim has been in the forefront of Catholic-Orthodox dialogue and **interfaith **dialogue between Christians, Muslims and Jews. His leadership is by deeds and example, not mere words.
One of the most powerful examples of this patriarch’s **devotion to ecumenism is the renewal of the Melkite Church. ****The Melkite Catholic Church is an Orthodox Church that is in union with Rome. Its spirituality, theology, prayer life and liturgy follows the traditions of the Orthodox churches, yet it accepts the jurisdiction of the pope.
**
Due to the influence of western missionaries and contact with the Latin-rite hierarchy in the United States, the Melkite Church had lost some of these Eastern characteristics. Liturgically and spiritually, the pre-Vatican II church existed as a minor rite within the larger Roman Catholic Church. Western traditions, such as First Holy Communion, Stations of the Cross and Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament became a part of the Melkite Church’s liturgical life. Though powerful expressions of the Roman Catholic faith, these traditions are not essential to the spirit of Eastern Christianity.
The Orthodox, fearful of the loss of their identity and independence, have pointed to such additions in the Eastern churches as Latin attempts to homogenize. Thus, the Eastern Catholic churches, whose raison d’etre was to serve as a bridge of unity between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, became a source of discord.
**Since his election as patriarch in 1968, Patriarch Hakim has worked for the renewal of Eastern traditions. [p.23]
“We want to live according to our Eastern spirituality, which is not yet 100 percent acquired,” he said****.**
HagiaSophia said:
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Funny how you show your ignorance once again. As a Roman Catholic you do have a patriarch. The Pope is your patriarch. The pope holds three offices, 1) Bishop of Rome, 2) Patriarch of the West, 3) Pontiff of the Universal Catholic Church.
I suggest that you read three documents. One from Pope Leo XIII, one from Vatican II, and one from Pope John Paul II.
Orientalium Dignitas (On the Churches of the East)
Orientalium Ecclesiarum (Decree on the Catholic Churches of the Eastern Rite)
Oriental Lumen (A Light from the East - On the Eastern Church)
I would add that you must then think that the Holy Father is Schismatic as he celebrated the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom with the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church when he was in Ukrain last year.
A
Anne_Carmel
Guest
This thread has gone off topic and is now, sadly, going in circles.
It is now closed.
It is now closed.
- Status