Does the Papacy have temporal claims/demands?

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Hello there everyone, and God bless Pope Francis!

I’ve been thinking about the temporal role of the Papacy. As you’ll know, it was a major player, if not the top, in Medieval Europe. Of course that was also abused, but that’s not what my question is about.

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, and Christ is the King of all. Wouldn’t that imply some possible claim to authority over all nations, as he is the Vicar of the King of all? I’ve heard people say there was such a claim, and personally I think that at least some temporal authority can be to the common good, though recognising the potential for abuse.

What do you think?
 
Hello there everyone, and God bless Pope Francis!

I’ve been thinking about the temporal role of the Papacy. As you’ll know, it was a major player, if not the top, in Medieval Europe. Of course that was also abused, but that’s not what my question is about.

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, and Christ is the King of all. Wouldn’t that imply some possible claim to authority over all nations, as he is the Vicar of the King of all? I’ve heard people say there was such a claim, and personally I think that at least some temporal authority can be to the common good, though recognising the potential for abuse.

What do you think?
I think your question is answered in the classic apologetics series “Radio Replies.” Here are some excerpts where they dealt with your question: The great objection to your Church [is] that it divides a man’s loyalty from his country.

Loyalty to the Catholic Church does not divide a man’s loyalty from his country. In religious matters a Catholic obeys his Church; in temporal affairs, the laws of his country. They are services in two different spheres.

Did not Christ say, “No man can serve two masters”?

He did. And we Catholics have but one Master—Christ. And we are serving Him even by the fulfillment of our lesser civic duties in so far as we do them for the love of Him. It is the man who gives himself up to worldly affairs in such a way as to separate them from the service of God who is attempting to serve two masters. And: I allude to the fact that the Roman Church has ever striven for and possessed temporal power.

Remember that the Church has to exercise the authority of Christ in this world. To do this, she needs to be free to deal with Catholics of every nationality, and therefore to be free from the political interference of any particular nation. Now she can be free either by being independent of all rulers, or by being subject to a king who guarantees absolute liberty of action at least to the Pope. Kings, however, have ever been jealous of their authority, and prone to abuse it. If they grant freedom, they always regard it as being by privilege, and there is ever the danger that, if they happen to be displeased, they would try to interfere in Church administration. Hence God’s Providence arranged that certain early kings legally donated territory to the Church, rendering her independent of earthly authority altogether. After hundreds of years these states were illegally taken from the Church, and she certainly protested.

But you cannot escape the fact that the Catholic Church is a kingdom of this world, although Christ said that His Kingdom was not of this world.

The Catholic Church is not a kingdom of this world. It is the Kingdom of Christ in this world. And the Pope as Pope is not monarch of the Church in any national sense. No national considerations sway his rule over the millions of Catholics of every race and clime. He has temporal authority to-day in Vatican City, but that is merely that he may secure complete immunity from the interference of worldly powers.

Christ said, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar9 and to God the things that are God’s"*

He did. And the Pope demands independence of any earthly king’s authority precisely that Caesar, with his worldly power, may not interfere with the things that belong to God. That’s all from Volume 1. Here is where it is talked about in Volume 2: [Cont’d next post]
 
[cont’d from last post]

From volume 2: 352. The Monarch Pope is head, not simply of a religious organization, but also of a political State with temporal interests of its own. [Edit: Remember, the bold text is what the critic is saying, not what the Catholic Church teaches. This series is designed to answer criticisms such as that. And the answer is:]

So far as Catholics throughout the world are concerned, the Pope is the head of a purely religious society known as the Catholic Church. By his control of Vatican City he is politically independent of Italy. But no Catholic in the world, who does not reside in Vatican City, owes political allegiance to the Pope as a temporal ruler.

353. Christ said that Satan was the prince of this world. Did he give the Pope temporal power, and the right to give away kingdoms?

You can be quite sure that Satan has never been responsible for any power given to the Pope. You cannot argue that Satan is the prince of this world, and, therefore, every prince of this world must be satanic. Satan inspires evil in this world, but all lawful temporal authority is from God, as the New Testament assures us. Any temporal powers possessed by the Pope in past ages belonged to him either in virtue of his office, or by the legitimate title of donation on the part of Catholic princes.

354. In the eleventh century one Pope gave England to William of Normandy.

No Pope ever gave England to William of Normandy. William claimed the right to the English throne on the score that Edward the Confessor had designated him as his heir, and that Harold had sworn fealty to William as his liege lord according to the feudal system. The Pope, after having been appealed to, examined the evidence, and declared that William possessed the true right to the throne. In other words, upon request, Alexander II. merely decided a question of law.

355. Could the Pope act like that today?

The eleventh century and the feudal system have gone, never to return. Conditions of those times are no indication of possibilities today under totally different conditions.

356. Another Pope gave England to Spain.

That is not true. For political reasons, Philip of Spain determined to attack England. English pirates were plundering the merchant ships of Spain, and Elizabeth was stirring up the Turks in Spain to revolt against Spanish authority. She had also shown great hostility to the Catholic Faith, had murdered Mary, Queen of Scots, and was persecuting Catholics because of their religion. But, whilst Pope Sixtus V. knew that Elizabeth deserved any troubles she might bring upon herself, he told Philip that, if he was victorious, he must nominate some other ruler, who would restore the Catholic religion to England, and protect it in the form in which all Englishmen had acknowledged it prior to the Reformation.

357. Another Pope gave America to Spain and the East to Portugal–all without regard to the feelings and wishes of the people.

You have got hold of a few facts without understanding them in the least, and with no idea of how to interpret them correctly. When Columbus discovered America, a hot dispute arose between Spain and Portugal as to the ownership of the new-found territory. Both nations appealed to the Pope to mediate between them in order to avert war. It was a wise move; and, evil as he may have been in his personal life, Pope Alexander VI. handled this matter with supreme justice and prudence. The German historian Pastor says, “This peaceful settlement of thorny questions is justly regarded as one of the great glories of the Papacy. Nothing but complete misunderstanding and blind party spirit could turn it into an accusation against Rome. And it is simply absurd to speak of Alexander VI. as having given away what did not belong to him, taking no account of the liberties of the Americans.” In all such negotiations, allowance was always made for the rights and consent of the peoples concerned. And volume 3: 368. Still, since the Pope is a temporal ruler in his own right, it follows that the organization of Roman Catholicism is in part a Church, and in part a political State.

That does not follow. In no way whatever can the Catholic Church be called partly a political State. If it were, then I, as a Catholic priest, would owe political allegiance to my country, and also a political allegiance to the Catholic Church. But I acknowledge only one political allegiance—that to my country, Australia. Surely as a Catholic priest I ought to know what claims the Catholic religion makes upon me. I in no way acknowledge the Catholic Church as being in part a political State. The Pope is the spiritual head of the Catholic Church, and I acknowledge spiritual allegiance to him as to my supreme Bishop. He happens also to be temporal ruler of the territory known as Vatican City, in order to be independent of Italian civil authority. But I am not a citizen dwelling in that territory, and have no political affiliations with it.

369. The temporal interests of the Pope’s political State might easily conflict with the real interests of the Commonwealth.

If the political interests of Vatican City ever really menaced the political interests of our Commonwealth, Catholics would be obliged in conscience to defend our country against Papal aggression. If the Pope sent two Cardinals and an altar boy in a rowing boat to annex Australia as a further temporal possession of the Holy See, it would be the duty of Catholics in Australia to enlist at once in the Army, Navy, and Air-force, and to concentrate on the task of repelling the invader even at the cost of their own lives.
 
Hello there everyone, and God bless Pope Francis!

I’ve been thinking about the temporal role of the Papacy. As you’ll know, it was a major player, if not the top, in Medieval Europe. Of course that was also abused, but that’s not what my question is about.

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, and Christ is the King of all. Wouldn’t that imply some possible claim to authority over all nations, as he is the Vicar of the King of all? I’ve heard people say there was such a claim, and personally I think that at least some temporal authority can be to the common good, though recognising the potential for abuse.

What do you think?
That is a tough question. But I think in a sense, the Pope is the Vicar of all in the same portion that Christ is the King of all. Most do not recognize Christ as well as most do not recognize the Vicar.

I speak of a kingship of “service” not domination. I think the term King can be interpretted as control over, power over, etc… but I’d say the Kingship of Jesus Christ was one of service over, love over, etc. Same with the Papcy.

Medieval Europe was sstill coming to an understanding of the “temporal role of the Papacy”. The Church finally understood it more complete in Vatican I. Which is the pope is infallible on all matters of faith & morals while the Pope is monarch of the Vatican state (although not infallible on running Vatican city).

The authority given to Peter was the keys (Matthew 16:18-19) and the power to bind and loose. The best definition I’ve read regarding this power is from the Catholic Encyclopedia.

"The expressions binding and loosing here employed are derived from the current terminology of the Rabbinic schools. A doctor who declared a thing to be prohibited by the law was said to bind, for thereby he imposed an obligation on the conscience. He who declared it to be lawful was said to loose). In this way the terms had come respectively to signify official commands and permissions in general. The words of Christ, therefore, as understood by His hearers, conveyed the promise to St. Peter of legislative authority within the kingdom over which He had just set him, and legislative authority carries with it as its necessary accompaniment judicial authority. "

In summary, the Church Fathers also understood Peter’s successors to share his special authority and primacy. It’s shown through the advice they ask of Rome, mediation of disputes, and guidance on doctorinal issues.
 
I think your question is answered in the classic apologetics series “Radio Replies.”
For the benefit of those here, all five volumes of Radio Replies are available electronically (in searchable and browsable form) here:

radioreplies.info

Note that Frs. Rumble and Carty were writing in a pre-Vatican II era (except Volume 5). The doctrine is the same, of course, but some of the rules have changed (for example, Catholics may now attend protestant worship services, with some restrictions - no communion and such).
 
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