Does the Permanent Diaconate harm vocations to the Priesthood?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lepanto
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

Lepanto

Guest
In another thread, forum member ASimpleSinner said:

“Diaconal vocations are definately on the rise as well - currently over 16,600 men serve as perm deacons, and all but two diocese now have formation programs. As of this writing, the CARA rep with whom I spoke relayed to me that over 3K men are in formation at varous stages for the diaconate. It stands to reason that within a decade, we will have over 20K deacons in the US…”

The Permanent Diaconate was restored in the Latin Church in the 1960s, just when priesthood vocations started jumping off a cliff.

Now, I am NOT disparaging all of the dedicated, faithful, and hard-working permanent deacons out there. Not at all. BUT, one must wonder how many men who went into the Permanent Diaconate may have gone into the Priesthood had the Permanent Diaconate not been restored.

I know that they are considered separate vocations, but human nature being what it is, I wonder if some men went into the Permanent Diaconate instead of the Priesthood simply because the PD option was there…with the consequence that Priesthood vocations took a hit.

Now let me repeat: I am NOT disparaging all of the dedicated, faithful, and hard-working permanent deacons out there.
 
considering the overwhelming number of deacon candidates are mature married men, my guess is the answer is NO.
 
puzzleannie said:
considering the overwhelming number of deacon candidates are mature married men, my guess is the answer is NO.
Click to expand...
Plus you have to be married at least 5 years or more before applying to formation. I doubt many men say, “gee, I want to be a deacon not a priest so I can get married…so I better find me a wife so I can begin my diaconal formaion.” Most of the deacons I know came to discern a vocation to the diaconate long after they got married. Their vocation was first to marriage, then to the diaconate.
 
Another reason why the answer would be No is that they are different vocational calls.

A man who is called to be a permanent deacon who instead tries to become a priest has missed his calling.

Seems some do not understand that there are different calls in religious life. The call to religious life/religious priesthood is not the same as the call to the secular priesthood which is different from the call to the permanent diaconate.
 
A Deacon is a vocation of service. To me, the priesthood is a vocation of the sacraments and liturgy. We are in desperate need of priests, as everyone knows, so we can use more Deacons even today to minister the sick and disadvantaged, assist in other Church duties outside the sacramental responsibilities of the priest, and even being able to assist and preach homilies because it takes a lot of work to prepare a homily, and if you have a priest driving between three or four Churches tryhing to do Masses, the workload can be overwhelming.

If we ever thought we were getting too many Deacons, we should:
  1. Drop to our knees and THANK GOD for working in so many men’s lives
  2. Look for other ministries for the poor, sick, needy, imprisioned that are WAY understaffed
  3. Look for new areas of evangelization and formation where Deacons can help.
I just don’t think this will ever be a problem - there is WAY too much to do to live the life of Christ with joy!
 
lepanto said:
The Permanent Diaconate was restored in the Latin Church in the 1960s, just when priesthood vocations started jumping off a cliff.

Now, I am NOT disparaging all of the dedicated, faithful, and hard-working permanent deacons out there. Not at all. BUT, one must wonder how many men who went into the Permanent Diaconate may have gone into the Priesthood had the Permanent Diaconate not been restored.

I know that they are considered separate vocations, but human nature being what it is, I wonder if some men went into the Permanent Diaconate instead of the Priesthood simply because the PD option was there…with the consequence that Priesthood vocations took a hit.
Click to expand...
I think, at least in some ways, the permanent diaconate has harmed vocations to the priesthood. The priesthood is a sacrifice. I think permanent diaconate gives society the idea that “if you want to be a priest, and want to get married, just get married and become a deacon- it’s almost as good.” I think the permanent diaconate, in a way, diminishes the concept of sacrifice.
 
m134e5 said:
I think, at least in some ways, the permanent diaconate has harmed vocations to the priesthood. The priesthood is a sacrifice. I think permanent diaconate gives society the idea that “if you want to be a priest, and want to get married, just get married and become a deacon- it’s almost as good.” I think the permanent diaconate, in a way, diminishes the concept of sacrifice.
Click to expand...
As the wife of a deacon I can tell you that there is a lot of sacrifice involved in being a deacon…like not being able to attend the kids softball game because they need to conduct marriage interviews or teach the baptism class. You can’t sit with your family at mass unless yu are on vacation. Sometimes you can’t go to family functions or arrive late becase of something you have to do in the parish that you could not get out of. It is not only the deacon who has to make a sacrifice but the family too. Also, if the wife dies, the deacon cannot re-marry, so there is that sacrifice as well. I know quite a few widowed deacons who had to make that sacrifice. A deacon has to juggle family, work and ministry…that in itself is a sacrifice that they gladly make in service to God.
 
m134e5 said:
I think the permanent diaconate, in a way, diminishes the concept of sacrifice.
Click to expand...
I see it the other way around. For a married deacon, it’s not only the man who must sacrifice, but his wife as well.
 
m134e5 said:
I think permanent diaconate gives society the idea that “if you want to be a priest, and want to get married, just get married and become a deacon- it’s almost as good.” I think the permanent diaconate, in a way, diminishes the concept of sacrifice.
Click to expand...
Boy nothing could be further from the truth!

I am going through the Deacon program now, and there is aboslutely no way you would get that impression! I see many candidates with a number of children, busy jobs, trying to carve out time for ministry. The formation process is especially focused on the impact to the wives, children and marriage. The sacrifices of the whole family are obvious.

Also, in our two classes of 36 men total, I don’t see anyone who is below about 35-40 years of age (age requirement is 31 here). Not that any of these men couldn’t be priests also, but in my class of 21, 100% are married. So this is clearly drawing men later in life, whose families are a little more established and grown, and who are married.
 
AspiringDeacon said:
I am going through the Deacon program now, and there is aboslutely no way you would get that impression! I see many candidates with a number of children, busy jobs, trying to carve out time for ministry. The formation process is especially focused on the impact to the wives, children and marriage. The sacrifices of the whole family are obvious.

Also, in our two classes of 36 men total, I don’t see anyone who is below about 35-40 years of age (age requirement is 31 here). Not that any of these men couldn’t be priests also, but in my class of 21, 100% are married. So this is clearly drawing men later in life, whose families are a little more established and grown, and who are married.

While I don’t disagree with anything written in this particular post (I’m using it more as a launching point than a specific reply), I can see where, perhaps, had these men still been unmarried (and maybe considering a vocation a few years younger) they may have been thinking about priesthood rather than the diaconate. Is the diaconate “taking these men away” from the priesthood? Well, I don’t think so. As others have noted, it is a distinct vocation which most are coming to discern a little later in life AFTER they are married. And, yet, an argument could be made, I believe, that the general delay in considering vocations these days to an older age than in previous decades may be playing a factor in more men becoming open to the diaconate (which is available to married men who are a bit more advanced in years than when the traditional priestly vocation was once discerned) whereas a number of them might have also been open to the priesthood had they thought about it seriously before entering into marriage.
Click to expand...
 
No, the permanent Diaconate does not harm vocations to the Priesthood. Would like to echo the statements already made. I have been married 21 years have three children one in high school and two off to college. I am in the process of applying for the diaconate. Did I have a calling in my younger years, before I was married, to be a Priest - no. I really didn’t start to discern that I might be called to a vocation as a Deacon till probably about 6 years ago. It grew as my spiritual journey progressed. But, it will not be my primary vocation. Marriage is still my promary vocation, and God willing it will be for many many years to come.

Stillkickin 🙂
 
m134e5 said:
I think, at least in some ways, the permanent diaconate has harmed vocations to the priesthood. The priesthood is a sacrifice. I think permanent diaconate gives society the idea that “if you want to be a priest, and want to get married, just get married and become a deacon- it’s almost as good.” I think the permanent diaconate, in a way, diminishes the concept of sacrifice.
Click to expand...
Then you must not know any permanent deacons and the sacrifices they, and their wives and families make in service to the Lord and His people.
 
m134e5 said:
I think, at least in some ways, the permanent diaconate has harmed vocations to the priesthood. The priesthood is a sacrifice. I think permanent diaconate gives society the idea that “if you want to be a priest, and want to get married, just get married and become a deacon- it’s almost as good.” I think the permanent diaconate, in a way, diminishes the concept of sacrifice.
Click to expand...
The role of a Deacon is not to be a “mini” Priest. Most Deacons have ministries that are in the community, assisting at Mass is one of their functions, but is not their main role. They are two very different callings and to say as you did “it’s almost as good” in comparing Decons and Priests tells me that you do not really understand the role of the permanent Deaconate.

Stillkickin
 
chicago said:
And, yet, an argument could be made, I believe, that the general delay in considering vocations these days to an older age than in previous decades may be playing a factor in more men becoming open to the diaconate (which is available to married men who are a bit more advanced in years than when the traditional priestly vocation was once discerned) whereas a number of them might have also been open to the priesthood had they thought about it seriously before entering into marriage.
Click to expand...
This is the part I don’t like. Because you are assuming that

A.) any man who would be become a deacon should or might have become a priest if he hadn’t gotten married
B.) That if a man had seriously discerned religious life and not chosen it then he some how didn’t discern correctly when he choose to enter into a marriage

Well that’s just not the way things work. All of us (men and women) go through a discernment process in choosing whether marriage or the religious life is are calling from God. If a man discerns that marriage is his vocation then he pursue that path and vice versus for the religious life. Now Being “open” to the priesthood and feeling the calling to the priesthood are two separate items. Most of the guys I know have discerned whether the religious or marriage is their vocation. They have been open to the possibility to become a priest but discerned that that was not the calling from them. Therefore even waiting or delay would not have made them change their minds. The deaconate is a way God is calling a man and his family to serve the church within the broader context of the marriage vocation.

I applaud any man and his family who choose to sacrifice his time and life to serving the church. I can only imagine what are church would be like if we didn’t have these men to help us support the church.
 
The permanent diaconate was actually restored to help alleviate problems caused by shortages of priests. It was mainly a call by the Latin American bishops at the Second Vatican Council who called for the restoration for the same reason the Apostles instituted the office in the first place–the priests were too busy “waiting tables” instead of doing tasks where a priest was absolutely necessary.
 
beckers said:
This is the part I don’t like. Because you are assuming that

A.) any man who would be become a deacon should or might have become a priest if he hadn’t gotten married
B.) That if a man had seriously discerned religious life and not chosen it then he some how didn’t discern correctly when he choose to enter into a marriage

Well that’s just not the way things work. All of us (men and women) go through a discernment process in choosing whether marriage or the religious life is are calling from God. If a man discerns that marriage is his vocation then he pursue that path and vice versus for the religious life. Now Being “open” to the priesthood and feeling the calling to the priesthood are two separate items. Most of the guys I know have discerned whether the religious or marriage is their vocation. They have been open to the possibility to become a priest but discerned that that was not the calling from them. Therefore even waiting or delay would not have made them change their minds. The deaconate is a way God is calling a man and his family to serve the church within the broader context of the marriage vocation. I applaud any man and his family who choose to sacrifice his time and life to serving the church. I can only imagine what are church would be like if we didn’t have these men to help us support the church.
Click to expand...
Well, firstly, understand that you are dialoguing here with a former seminarian. So I understand a little something about discernment and what people go through.

That said, I do think that there is a problem in our day in that most vocations are discerned later in life. This is the main thrust of what I was suggesting. It doesn’t matter whether the vocation is priesthood, religious life, diaconate, or even marriage. Now, that isn’t entirely a “bad” thing, but it does present certain disadvantages.

The reality of the permanent diaconate is that it is, mainly, seen as a “married man’s vocation.” One is left to wonder, therefore, if some of these married men had been open to discerning the possibility of priesthood when younger whether they might have been willing to become priests. (And, from the other side of things, there ARE young men - I know them - who have given the priesthood some thought, and sincerely believed, “If only I could get married AND be a priest,” who ended up leaving the seminary and finding a wife. Not to mention the many men who have left the priesthood to get married.) Therefore, I do believe that the question posed by the OP is legitimate for consideration, at least.

Given, the two vocations are distinct. But, perhaps, that distinction isn’t well enough defined. Why, for instance, aren’t there more permanent deacons who are younger, single men? Typically, they are not even recuited, it would seem; the assumtion being that they ought to just, “Go all the way.”

You are correct, therefore, that there are men who are rightly called to both marriage and the diaconate. But, how many of THOSE men would continue on to the priesthood, if the option were available? In some cases, they are simply, “Going as far as they can go,” with things the way that they are.

My question remains, then, as to whether some of them may have been more open to discerning a priestly call had they considered it earlier in life, before marriage. That isn’t a criticism or challenge of where they are in life and vocation now, or even genuine previous discernment, but a mere sincere pondering, asking “What if?”
 
Joannm said:
As the wife of a deacon I can tell you that there is a lot of sacrifice involved in being a deacon.
Click to expand...
I am afraid we are missing the point here. The issue was: isn’t it true that a lot of men want to avoid the “sacrifice” that celibacy consists of to opt instead for marriage where they can still “play priest” as a deacon. Here’s the thing - indeed, marriage is just as much or more than a sacrifice than celibacy (I would say). But when a man is in that situation where he is choosing between celibacy and marriage, he is not thinking, “Boy, marriage is going to be the tougher life, but it’s my call, so I’ll do the best I can with God’s grace”. No, rather the attitude is, “Boy, it would be too tough to live without sex and female companionship - that’s way too much of a sacrifice. I’m going to get married”. In other words, those who opt for marriage over priesthood generally do so thinking it would be “easier”. Of course, most of them find out it is not the case, and as Dr. Hahn says, a lot of them have regrets and try to get into the diaconate program as a way to “kind of compensate” for their mistake. Bottom line: marriage may indeed require more of a sacrifice, and the diaconate maybe even more so, but young men choose marriage because they think it would be LESS of a sacrifice, and the priesthood would be MORE of one (or too much of one). So the spirit of sacrifice is not really there.
 
ByzCath said:
Another reason why the answer would be No is that they are different vocational calls.

A man who is called to be a permanent deacon who instead tries to become a priest has missed his calling.

Seems some do not understand that there are different calls in religious life. The call to religious life/religious priesthood is not the same as the call to the secular priesthood which is different from the call to the permanent diaconate.
Click to expand...
👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top