Does the Pope consider himself God?

[Bezant]

Not sure where to post this, but thought I might get some great responses here. Could anyone help me with the argument that the Pope considers himself God. My anti-Catholic “adversary” has posted several quotes “proving” said claim. The current claim I am working on is, Popes apology LA Times, December 12th 1984., in which JPII allegedly tells people to come to him rather than to God. I cannot find this article or quote, is it real?

I find it useful, whenever the ‘usual’ charges come up (Catholics worship Mary, statues, etc.) that you refer him/her to the Nicene Creed, which is the sum of Catholic faith and ordered from highest to lowest priorities. If the pope was God, he would be in the first three-four lines. He isn’t even mentioned explicitly.

 

[centurionguard]

This is anti-Catholic propaganda repeated again and again by various anti-Catholic websites. Saying it over and over does not make it true.

Samples of it are here, here and here.

The actual article is not freely available, but see this wiki.

Totally Agree.

People who dislike and hate the Catholic Church are quick to speak negativity and blacklist (“Everything and Anything”) about the Catholic Church. It comes with the territory I suppose whether one chooses to believe the Catholic Church is the One True Church. People always see the splinters but never see the logs in their own eyes.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Alas, I think your email conversation with this pastor shows how many - not all, of course - people with anti-Catholic feelings hold some kind of unholy hatred in their heart towards us that will not yield to the power of truth. Even if the OP found this article, it wouldn’t matter. We all need to pray that Christ’s love will help loosen hatred’s grasp on their hearts.

acarlson,

This hatred runs deep; and ministers, like the one I encountered, are preaching this anti-Catholic propaganda from the pulpit—and now on the Internet—perpetuating lies and hatred. I agree that we must pray that Christ’s love will loosen hatred’s grasp on their hearts. My response to the minister had no effect whatsoever.

Peace,
Anna

 

[StevenFrancis]

Not sure where to post this, but thought I might get some great responses here. Could anyone help me with the argument that the Pope considers himself God. My anti-Catholic “adversary” has posted several quotes “proving” said claim. The current claim I am working on is, Popes apology LA Times, December 12th 1984., in which JPII allegedly tells people to come to him rather than to God. I cannot find this article or quote, is it real?

I don’t know anything about these quotes, but the Pope is a Bishop. He is the Bishop of the Archdiocese of Rome, Italy. In addition, he is the head of state for the city/state vatican city. He is the Apostolic representative on earth of St. Simon Peter, the apostle, and the first Bishop of Rome. We believe that St. Peter was primary among the Apostles, and that this is born out in both scripture and tradition, as well as history.

No pope is a God. He is a man, but the position he occupies is sacred and Holy. He is protected by the Holy Spirit in matters of faith and morals.

Hope this helps. I’d take the god accusations or insinuations by your friend with a grain of salt, and simply explain what exactly the pope is, and leave it at that. Then pray for him.

My 2 cents,

May God bless,

Steven

 

[GaryTaylor]

I hear you guys, its sad that hate is a learned behavior, taught for no good reason except hatred itself. Whats most sad is, you will hate and believe its very normal. Everything you were taught will confirm your own thinking. This is a real live horror show to watch.

My thoughts went to last nights Vatican News on ewtn. I happen to be falling sleep, the news of the Pope possibly retiring in 2012 was released last night. I don’t know who heard the entire story, nor did I seek it out again. However I do believe we could put to rest the idea he considers himself God.

The more realistic question is; Have there been Popes who have spoke with more authority than others? If this wasn’t true, I would assume something wasn’t human. Isn’t that just common in life and school?

Peace:thumbsup:

 

[Armor_of_Light]

This is anti-Catholic propaganda repeated again and again by various anti-Catholic websites. Saying it over and over does not make it true.

Samples of it are here, here and here.

The actual article is not freely available, but see this wiki.

Holy schneikies!! This is scary…
I’d rather not think about these poor paranoid troubled souls, but I will pray for them. Pretty ‘evil’ of us to pray for them, eh?

 

[Anna_Scott]

I hear you guys, its sad that hate is a learned behavior, taught for no good reason except hatred itself. Whats most sad is, you will hate and believe its very normal. Everything you were taught will confirm your own thinking. This is a real live horror show to watch.

My thoughts went to last nights Vatican News on ewtn. I happen to be falling sleep, the news of the Pope possibly retiring in 2012 was released last night. I don’t know who heard the entire story, nor did I seek it out again. However I do believe we could put to rest the idea he considers himself God.

The more realistic question is; Have there been Popes who have spoke with more authority than others? If this wasn’t true, I would assume something wasn’t human. Isn’t that just common in life and school?

Peace:thumbsup:

GaryTaylor,

But—you are coming from a viewpoint acquired without hatred taught repeatedly in your Church, the CC. The Catholic Church has produced, in recent history, some of the most compassionate writings about salvation. And I share that compassionate view. None of us have the right to pronounce judgment on the soul of another. That is abundantly clear in Holy Scripture; but this does not stop those who spread hateful propaganda.

---- And—it seems a Christian’s time would be better spent serving those in need, demonstrating the love of Christ, rather than demonstrating and perpetuating hatred. The number of anti-Catholic websites is really quite alarming. It seems they would fall under the category of “hate groups,” that should be investigated. Yet, they flourish unchecked.

As you can see this is really disturbing to me. Then when someone tries to correct the false claims about the CC, they are told, as in my case, “Shame on you for trying to deceive a Baptist preacher! (Christ wrote down your wicked sin in His book and will read it out at the last Judgment. Be afraid. Be very afraid.)”

Peace,
Anna

 

[Telstar]

GaryTaylor,

But—you are coming from a viewpoint acquired without hatred taught repeatedly in your Church, the CC. The Catholic Church has produced, in recent history, some of the most compassionate writings about salvation. And I share that compassionate view. None of us have the right to pronounce judgment on the soul of another. That is abundantly clear in Holy Scripture; but this does not stop those who spread hateful propaganda.

---- And—it seems a Christian’s time would be better spent serving those in need, demonstrating the love of Christ, rather than demonstrating and perpetuating hatred. The number of anti-Catholic websites is really quite alarming. It seems they would fall under the category of “hate groups,” that should be investigated. Yet, they flourish unchecked.

As you can see this is really disturbing to me. Then when someone tries to correct the false claims about the CC, they are told, as in my case, “Shame on you for trying to deceive a Baptist preacher! (Christ wrote down your wicked sin in His book and will read it out at the last Judgment. Be afraid. Be very afraid.)”

Peace,
Anna

If I thought that it might make him want to stop and think about it, I might send a response reminding him that those who persecute the True Church of Jesus Christ will be on their very own ‘special list’ in that book. I might also throw in this quote for a little added effect: Acts 9:4 “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?” But, maybe that would just be me being an even bigger jerk than he is.

 

[StevenFrancis]

Not sure where to post this, but thought I might get some great responses here. Could anyone help me with the argument that the Pope considers himself God. My anti-Catholic “adversary” has posted several quotes “proving” said claim. The current claim I am working on is, Popes apology LA Times, December 12th 1984., in which JPII allegedly tells people to come to him rather than to God. I cannot find this article or quote, is it real?

I don’t know anything about these quotes, but the Pope is a Bishop. He is the Bishop of the Archdiocese of Rome, Italy. In addition, he is the head of state for the city/state vatican city. He is the Apostolic representative on earth of St. Simon Peter, the apostle, and the first Bishop of Rome. We believe that St. Peter was primary among the Apostles, and that this is born out in both scripture and tradition, as well as history.

No pope is a God. He is a man, but the position he occupies is sacred and Holy. He is protected by the Holy Spirit in matters of faith and morals.

Hope this helps. I’d take the god accusations or insinuations by your friend with a grain of salt, and simply explain what exactly the pope is, and leave it at that. Then pray for him.

May God bless,

Steven

 

[GaryTaylor]

If I thought that it might make him want to stop and think about it, I might send a response reminding him that those who persecute the True Church of Jesus Christ will be on their very own ‘special list’ in that book. I might also throw in this quote for a little added effect: Acts 9:4 “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?” But, maybe that would just be me being an even bigger jerk than he is.

I hear you both.

Oh I admire the time you took my sister. You know, I know from my own trauma in life and denial of it, that I had to hear “repetition” many times over, before I accepted, another as correct. Its hard to correct behavior you can’t see and deny. Its so sad when so many others see it so clearly, and an individual is stumbling at this point. One word can snap an individual out of this, which one word that will be? I couldn’t tell you. I try to humbly point out mistakes in behavior in the area I work. However I have seen many different techniques work with behavior. By far its not a perfected field. Well, just look at alcohol and addiction. Denial is looked at always. Its a enigma which places one automatically behind the one who is “not” is a state of denial. Its just common sense to help who you can, when/where you can, most immediately. Can’t stop working with denial though, we, just don’t know which key will open the door.

Oh, Pope Benedict made clear my above statement also. He stated he wasn’t going anywhere but will reserve the right to step down “if” he feels he has become burden and not an asset do to age. He’s an admirable person for sure. He referred the world to “Light of the World” where he stated the Pope did have the “right” to step down if he believe’s it is needed. I have heard Catholics state this has never happened. I don’t know for sure.

Peace

 

[Anna_Scott]

If I thought that it might make him want to stop and think about it, I might send a response reminding him that those who persecute the True Church of Jesus Christ will be on their very own ‘special list’ in that book. I might also throw in this quote for a little added effect: Acts 9:4 “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?” But, maybe that would just be me being an even bigger jerk than he is.

Telstar,
I can understand why you would want to, but it would probably just anger him more. I think this kind of hatred is truly a spiritual issue that should bring us all to our knees before the Lord–asking this man’s eyes be opened.

After the pastor sent me the second e-mail telling me to “be afraid, be very afraid,” I responded by telling him to stop sending me “rude and threatening e-mails.” I haven’t heard from him since. He was really crossing a line in both his anti-Catholic website and his threats to me. Threatening e-mails can be reported to authorities. While he was threatening spiritual consequences; telling someone to “be afraid, be very afraid” twice. could also be viewed as a physical threat.

Peace,
Anna

 

[GaryTaylor]

Anna, basically we can open up a file on this complicated behavior now. I wouldn’t worry but I don’t easily rattle either. I do think its good its publically noted. A treat has to viewed with a potential to be acted upon.

Peace

 

[Anna_Scott]

I hear you both.

Oh I admire the time you took my sister. You know, I know from my own trauma in life and denial of it, that I had to hear “repetition” many times over, before I accepted, another as correct. Its hard to correct behavior you can’t see and deny. Its so sad when so many others see it so clearly, and an individual is stumbling at this point. One word can snap an individual out of this, which one word that will be? I couldn’t tell you. I try to humbly point out mistakes in behavior in the area I work. However I have seen many different techniques work with behavior. By far its not a perfected field. Well, just look at alcohol and addiction. Denial is looked at always. Its a enigma which places one automatically behind the one who is “not” is a state of denial. Its just common sense to help who you can, when/where you can, most immediately. Can’t stop working with denial though, we, just don’t know which key will open the door.

Gary,
Sometimes people do listen. I talk to one of my relatives all the time, and have been able to correct her misconceptions of Catholicism— and she was receptive. Though she was never one to jump on a bandwagon of hate. We had a conversation recently, and I told her I talk to Catholics all the time and I have no doubt Catholics are Christians—though there are doctrines with which I disagree. Even so, my life is richer for talking with Catholic friends, like you on the forums.

I think these forums serve great purposes–both for Catholic evangelism and for helping non-Catholics understand the true Catholic beliefs (I fall into the second category-at least for now. )

The problem I see over and over again is that certain non-Catholics will join CAF and immediately launch anti-Catholic rhetoric. They don’t last long, because they violate the forum rules. If they would stick to discussing doctrines (rather than attack and insult), they would eventually understand what Catholics really believe. Fortunately, there are those who do manage to stick around long enough to clear up misconceptions.

Peace,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna, basically we can open up a file on this complicated behavior now. I wouldn’t worry but I don’t easily rattle either. I do think its good its publically noted. A treat has to viewed with a potential to be acted upon.

Peace

GaryTaylor,
What do you mean by opening up a file?

Anna

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well, the first behavior is then complicated by another which is a threat. And a escalation. Obviously this is a disturbed individual.

The file part I was joking about, but its basically true. Its hard to evaluate on-line for me as compared to in person. You miss the body language on-line. So you really miss a big clue to seeing clearly. I’m still playing with it from an on-line perspective, I’m not even sure correct understanding of behavior is possible on-line yet. For me the jurys still out here. But as you clearly see, we see the signs, and do see when they muliply.

Peace

 

[Anna_Scott]

Well, the first behavior is then complicated by another which is a threat. And a escalation. Obviously this is a disturbed individual.

The file part I was joking about, but its basically true. Its hard to evaluate on-line for me as compared to in person. You miss the body language on-line. So you really miss a big clue to seeing clearly. I’m still playing with it from an on-line perspective, I’m not even sure correct understanding of behavior is possible on-line yet. For me the jurys still out here. But as you clearly see, we see the signs, and do see when they muliply.

Peace

Gary,
You’re right about the difficulty in evaluating on-line behavior. Though with this pastor, I’d hate to be close enough to him to evaluate the body language.

At least the e-mails stopped; and that is a good sign. I do know that people who receive specific threats–such as death threats, can file a police report. But I don’t think the “be afraid, be very afraid” falls into this category. I think he is probably trying to cause me to fear the fate of my soul–a tactic he uses on his website and—no doubt–from the pulpit–which is really the big issue. He draws people into the web of hatred towards Catholics–linking salvation to a position on Catholicism. Those pulled into this thinking begin to link Catholicism with evil–when it is really the other way around: evil leads people to hatred of Catholicism.

Peace,
Anna

 

[estesbob]

Not sure where to post this, but thought I might get some great responses here. Could anyone help me with the argument that the Pope considers himself God. My anti-Catholic “adversary” has posted several quotes “proving” said claim. The current claim I am working on is, Popes apology LA Times, December 12th 1984., in which JPII allegedly tells people to come to him rather than to God. I cannot find this article or quote, is it real?

Tell him : “Of course he doesn’t consider himself God. Every good Catholic knows Mary is”.

 

[Telstar]

Telstar,
I can understand why you would want to, but it would probably just anger him more. I think this kind of hatred is truly a spiritual issue that should bring us all to our knees before the Lord–asking this man’s eyes be opened.

After the pastor sent me the second e-mail telling me to “be afraid, be very afraid,” I responded by telling him to stop sending me “rude and threatening e-mails.” I haven’t heard from him since. He was really crossing a line in both his anti-Catholic website and his threats to me. Threatening e-mails can be reported to authorities. While he was threatening spiritual consequences; telling someone to “be afraid, be very afraid” twice. could also be viewed as a physical threat.

Peace,
Anna

I agree, but it would be ironic if you sent him that response, and he actually got ‘hit with a lightning bolt’ of faith to open his eyes.

There is no excuse for him to threaten you in any way, especially by telling you that you should “be afraid, be very afraid” of losing your soul. What you said to him was said in humble Christian charity, but what he said to you was very far from charitable in any sense of the word. It always amazes me that people like him can fool others into believing blatant lies, and promote such hatred of others (I was going to say other Christians, but they don’t even think Catholics are Christian. ). I can’t understand how they can believe that Jesus would ever approve of their hateful actions.

 

[JustaServant]

Baptist pastor’s response to me:

Shame on you for trying to deceive a Baptist preacher! (Christ wrote down your wicked sin in His book and will read it out at the last Judgment. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Anna,
This response alone from this “Baptist preacher” tells me he might not be playing with a full deck. Can’t really argue with people like this. Just pray for him.

 

[ggonzalez435]

Alas, I think your email conversation with this pastor shows how many - not all, of course - people with anti-Catholic feelings hold some kind of unholy hatred in their heart towards us that will not yield to the power of truth. Even if the OP found this article, it wouldn’t matter. We all need to pray that Christ’s love will help loosen hatred’s grasp on their hearts.

You know I was just thinking, I have gone to several ACTS retreats and one thing that happens at almost all of them is the tallest, hardest looking, or the loudest antiCatholic or antisocial person in the group of retreatants is the one that will breakdown and cry a gallon of tears then later becomes the most devoted of Catholics. I wish this and pray for this to happen to our Methodist pastor friend. God save him