Does The Pope Have This Much Power?

[stargazer257]

Milliardo:

…It’s something to think about.

And have faith in!

 

[NotWorthy]

Milliardo:

Jesus said, “Whatever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven; whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loose in heaven.” Jesus gave Peter a great authority–something that does not only encompass that which is temporal, but even goes all the way to heaven. I was struck by this passage while comteplating on it. Peter was given a power almost like Christ’s. He was given something extraordinary. Jesus didn’t say to him–“Look, I am the Master, so I will only give you this much so that I can still have control.” No, Jesus practically gave Peter full control of the Church. It’s something to think about.

It’s amazing that anyone who reads the Bible so literally, as most Bible Christians do, can twist this verse around so much!

I think its a case of drawing the line before you plot the points.

NotWorthy

 

[Milliardo]

NotWorthy:

It’s amazing that anyone who reads the Bible so literally, as most Bible Christians do, can twist this verse around so much!

I think its a case of drawing the line before you plot the points.

NotWorthy

I didn’t exactly get the point you’re trying to make–can you clarify that?

 

[Swiss_Guard]

NonDenom:

Hi All
I know that this will not be an answer that will find much agreement but here goes anyway.
The pope is only in charge of an organization, the Catholic church.
Christ is in control of HIS church and would certainly not put it in the hands of sinful man. The pope is in charge of the Catholic church, not Christ’s church. If the pope were the leader of Christ’s church then he would not have let all the abuses that have gone on it the Catholic church over the years go on.

I know this is a response you will not agree with, but here goes anyway…

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Using your logic, Christ couldn’t possibly be God, since God would certainly know not to choose an Apostle who betrayed Him. He also wouldn’t make someone who denied Him three times the head of those same Apostles.

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If God knows everything, He would be smart enough not to choose men who betrayed Him and denied Him, not to mention the others who deserted Him when He needed them the most.

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Why do you claim to belong to a church founded by a human being just like you and me? Why do you worship a man when you should worship God?

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Taking your logic a step further, how can God exist, since God is supposed to be perfect and all loving, yet he lets terrible things happen, like Hurricanes Katrina, Rita and Wilma? God also lets people kill other people every day. If God really exists, none of these things would happen because God would not allow them to happen since He is perfect and all loving.

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After all, I’m just using your simplistic logic.

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BTW, I believe in Christ and I belong to His Church - the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church which He founded and gave authority to St. Peter and his successors.

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I discarded your simplistic logic when I stopped believing in Santa Claus.

 

[NotWorthy]

Milliardo:

I didn’t exactly get the point you’re trying to make–can you clarify that?

I’m sorry. I’m amazed that “Bible Only” Christians can look at the binding and loosing text of Matthew and twist it around to where Jesus is not giving Peter and then the Apostles the power to “bind and loose”.

The “points and line” comment was a weak attempt at some Math-Geek humor.

NotWorthy

 

[RyanL]

NotWorthy:

The “points and line” comment was a weak attempt at some Math-Geek humor.

I’m a math-geek, and I laughed out loud when I read your post. Keep it up. Making math jokes doesn’t mean you’re a ‘square’, especially if the jokes are (a)cute!

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[Richard_Hurtz]

StCsDavid:

It’s as if He says, “I’m not incarnate with you now, but here is my trusted friend to lead you on your earthly journey.”

This is like what Jesus says of the Holy Spirit too.

Blessings,
Richard

 

[NonDenom]

Eh, we’ve had plenty of sinful popes. In fact every has been a sinner. Some did seam to revel in it though. The simple fact that we have had some real loser popes and they haven’t been able to teach error just goes to show the power of infallibility. As I recall one keeled over the day before he was to make a heretical proclamation.

Hi all
I guess the question here then is, doesn’t the Catholic church believe that the Holy Spirit leads the leadership of your church in the selection of the pope? Why would men being led by the Holy Spirit choose a looser for pope? Just a thought.
Thanks.

 

[Milliardo]

NonDenom:

Hi all
I guess the question here then is, doesn’t the Catholic church believe that the Holy Spirit leads the leadership of your church in the selection of the pope?

Yes, we do believe the Holy Spirit guides the Cardinals into choosing who’d be Pope.

Why would men being led by the Holy Spirit choose a looser for pope?

God works in mysterious ways, as the saying goes. Why would God let such a Pope head His Church? To show us that even a sinner could lead His Church, and still not lead it to error. It is as well to test men’s faithfulness to Him and His Church; so the wheat was separated from the chafe, and those faitful to Him and His Church remained inspite of the weakness of the one whom God appointed to lead.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

NonDenom:

Hi All
I know that this will not be an answer that will find much agreement but here goes anyway.
The pope is only in charge of an organization, the Catholic church.
Christ is in control of HIS church and would certainly not put it in the hands of sinful man. The pope is in charge of the Catholic church, not Christ’s church. If the pope were the leader of Christ’s church then he would not have let all the abuses that have gone on it the Catholic church over the years go on.

Says who? By what authority do you say this?

Popes are human. They can be sinners, yet they are incapable of leading the Church into error. In all of Christian history, the Church has never lead the Church into error in matters of infallible teaching. I guess that is what ‘infallible’ means: it will not fail you, ever.

 

[Brain]

trth_skr:

Is not the Pope the Vicar of Christ? Note also that this is not arbitrary power. Christ is the King of kings and Lord of lords. The Pope (Peter and successors) was given the keys to the Kingdom (i.e., like a Prime Minister). The Pope is in charge of the Church. He is its visible and authoritative head in lieu of Christ (and until such time as Christ returns). The Church ain’t no democracy . Mark Wyattwww.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

Plus the Pope is very aware of what he is charged with. He knows (boy does he know) the weight he has taken up, and he knows that he will one day be standing before God being asked, “so how did you feed my sheep?”
The pope isnt going to mess aroundn with his power.

 

[mercygate]

NonDenom:

Hi all
I guess the question here then is, doesn’t the Catholic church believe that the Holy Spirit leads the leadership of your church in the selection of the pope?

Yes.

Why would men being led by the Holy Spirit choose a looser for pope? Just a thought.

Thanks.

If that’s your “thought,” then you might have the same thought about why Jesus picked Judas for one of his 12 closest associates. God can bring much good out of weakness or even from evil.

 

[StCsDavid]

NonDenom:

Hi all
I guess the question here then is, doesn’t the Catholic church believe that the Holy Spirit leads the leadership of your church in the selection of the pope? Why would men being led by the Holy Spirit choose a looser for pope? Just a thought.
Thanks.

Yes, the Holy Spirit inspires the Pope selection; however, there’s still this matter of free will. There is the possibility that a loser person could come into the papacy either because the Cardinals chose not to follow the guidence of the Holy Spirit or because the person chosen chose a sinful path. The good news is the Holy Spirit protects the Church…sometimes even from itself. While some Popes have less than steller behavior, the core doctrines of the Church have withstood the test of time…sometimes through Divine Providence.

 

[mercygate]

StCsDavid:

Yes, the Holy Spirit inspires the Pope selection; however, there’s still this matter of free will. There is the possibility that a loser person could come into the papacy either because the Cardinals chose not to follow the guidence of the Holy Spirit or because the person chosen chose a sinful path. The good news is the Holy Spirit protects the Church…sometimes even from itself. While some Popes have less than steller behavior, the core doctrines of the Church have withstood the test of time…sometimes through Divine Providence.

We need to keep in mind also that the number of “losers” is very few. VERY few. Maybe 6 out of 265. And even some of the “bad” Popes still guided the Church, doctrinally, with prophetic foresight.

 

[st_julie]

Often criticisms of papal power deal with powers he does not have. To stop people from committing abuses and sins he would have to have preternatural gifts. That any statement would cause immediate obedience. That everyone and I mean everyone would listen attentively to him and obey. I once read that Pius XII could have stopped the holacaust with a word. They never said what word that would be or how that would have worked.

st julie

 

[Orionthehunter]

NonDenom:

Hi all
I guess the question here then is, doesn’t the Catholic church believe that the Holy Spirit leads the leadership of your church in the selection of the pope? Why would men being led by the Holy Spirit choose a looser for pope? Just a thought.
Thanks.

God is all-wise. His wisdom is infinitely beyond the collective wisdom of all humanity since the beginning of time. Who are we to question His wisdom?

God is all-powerful. His power infinitely transcends the collective power of all humanity since the beginnign of time. Nobody has any power that doesn’t derive from God.