Does the Quran teach Terrorism? - Mufti Menk

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Matthew_Light said:
Ignatius;13028064:
Ignatius;13027271:
You say that the Islamic State In Syria (ISIS) makes the claim that the Qur’an contains the reason for their terrorism and is the justification for their actions. Your statement appears to cast doubt on their statement that it is the reason for their terrorism and is the justification for their actions.

What, then, is the reason for what ISIS is doing?
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So what is it in the Qur’an that they are misunderstanding? What do they think it says and what do you think it says?
It’s very important to recognize those among our Muslim brothers and sisters who work for peace and understanding and support them in their efforts.
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Yes I agree that we need to recognize those who work for peace. But I think it is equally important to understand what those, like ISIS, think the Qur’an says for them to do.

Because this is happening today, not 1000 years ago, we need to understand what is it in the Qur’an that they are misunderstanding?.
What passages they are using. What they think it says and what those Muslims for peace think it says?

Can anyone give the specific verses in the Qur’an that ISIS is misunderstanding?.
 
Ignatius said:
Yes I agree that we need to recognize those who work for peace. But I think it is equally important to understand what those, like ISIS, think the Qur’an says for them to do.

Because this is happening today, not 1000 years ago, we need to understand what is it in the Qur’an that they are misunderstanding?.
What passages they are using. What they think it says and what those Muslims for peace think it says?

Can anyone give the specific verses in the Qur’an that ISIS is misunderstanding?.
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One verse from the Quran that ISIS misunderstands is

*fight them where ever they are found *

ISIL takes this to mean that Shia Muslims should rightfully be killed. Muslim Imams such as the Imam in the video of the OP suggests that

*"fight them where ever they are found *

Is not a command for Muslims to go out and kill disbelievers or folks that Muslims think are disbelievers, rather *"fight them where ever they are found * is irt a specific event and a specific group of people in history.
 
In the west, there is only one answer to this question permitted in polite company. Any answer hinting at the affirmative is considered unworthy of expression. Tolerance of minoity opinion and debate are values long since abandoned.
HolyCrusader007 said:
ISIL members will for example point to verses in the Quran, specifically the verse "fight them where ever they are found " as a justification for Muslims attacking or killing Shia Muslims.

The Muslim Imam in the following video talks about how some non Muslims will pick up a Quran and suggest that the Quran preaches terrorism , the Muslim Imam then suggests that Islam teaches peace and that “fight them where ever they are found” was irt to specific time in history.

I hope that seeing a Muslim Imam rightfully deny the view that Islam teaches terror, will help out those whom have the view that Islam teaches terror. Islam teaches peace, ISIL members suggest Islam is not a religion of peace, but this Muslim Imam suggests Islam promotes peace.

youtube.com/watch?t=151&v=Mnd5cjQZOA8
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Ignatius said:
That’s pretty weak. Is that the only one?
What about those cited in post #10 of this thread?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13029067&postcount=10
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fight them where ever they are found *

Is a verse from the Quran that is often used by the Anti Muslim crowd as a means of trying to show folks how intolerant Islam is.

OTOH the past 3 Popes of the Catholic Church have spoken positively of Muslims, so I dont want to offend Muslims by putting myself in a position where I would be agreeing with someone who has the view that Islam includes intolerant teachings. I think it would be beneficial for Muslims and Christians to work together, as we are doing today and as we did in the past.

Catholics of the past, such as St Francis of Assisi and Jean Bodin to name a few, worked to improve relations between Muslims and Christians.

Jean Bodin, a French Catholic, wrote positively of the Ottoman Empire.

books.google.com/books?id=3uJzjatjTL4C&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111&dq=Jean+Bodin+on+the+ottoman+empire&source=bl&ots=SPBZVeflNd&sig=AchKvv35iim0Nr6SHXnLaa3FKio&hl=en&sa=X&ei=35VKVfqOM6HLsATTxIDgCA&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Jean%20Bodin%20on%20the%20ottoman%20empire&f=false

Irt St Francis of Asssi

*The Saint and the Sultan: the Crusades, Islam and Francis of Assisi’s Mission of Peace examines a little known encounter between St. Francis of Assisi and Sultan Malik al-Kamil of Egypt during the Crusades.

In 1219, in the midst of disastrous Fifth Crusade, Francis crossed enemy lines to gain an audience with al-Kamil, the sultan of Egypt and a nephew of the great Muslim warrior Saladin, in his camp on the banks of the Nile. Francis, who opposed the warfare, hoped to bring about peace by converting the sultan to Christianity. He didn’t succeed, but came away from the peaceful encounter with revolutionary ideas that called for Christians to live harmoniously with Muslims.

The Saint and the Sultan brings to life the battles of the Fifth Crusade as well as the parallel stories of Francis and Sultan al-Kamil, showing why this meeting between two unique men was misrepresented and glossed over for so many years. It also shows the relevance this episode has today as many in the world work gingerly to broker peace between Christians and Muslims.*

saintandthesultan.com/about.html
 
HolyCrusader007 said:
Ignatius;13032931:
HolyCrusader007;13030385:
Ignatius;13029958:
Yes I agree that we need to recognize those who work for peace. But I think it is equally important to understand what those, like ISIS, think the Qur’an says for them to do.

What passages is ISIS using. What they think it says and what those Muslims for peace think it says?

Can anyone give the specific verses in the Qur’an that ISIS is misunderstanding?.
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One verse from the Quran that ISIS misunderstands is *fight them where ever they are found *
.

That’s pretty weak. Is that the only verse?

fight them where ever they are found Is a verse from the Quran that is often used by the Anti Muslim crowd as a means of trying to show folks how intolerant Islam is.
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But my question is about ISIS, Is it only that one verse that ISIS uses to justify what they are doing? There are no other verses that ISIS uses to justify their actions?

Once again, Because this is happening today, not 1000 years ago, we need to understand what ISIS says in the Qur’an that the basis for their actions and what is their misunderstanding. Surely ISIS isn’t using just one verse.

*What about those cited in post #10 of this thread?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13029067&postcount=10

*Again, we need to understand where ISIS is coming from so that we can establish a dialog with them based on mutual understanding. In order to accomplish this we need to know all of the Suras they are using, not just one, and their error in understanding, and what is the correct understanding.
 
There can be no meaningful dialogue with those who embrace the demonic religion of Islam. Did people have a meaningful dialogue with Hitler’s supporters?
I pray for all the muslim souls in the world to be touched by the Holy Spirit so that they will know the one true God, with the mercy and saving grace of Jesus Christ.

LORD, convert all humankind to your holy religion and sanctify us in one Church.

Give all Christians unity of the Faith and peace within the walls of the Church.
Give all Muslims submission to your true will that brings perfect freedom.
Give all Hindus devotion to the eternal law and love of the Most Holy Trinity.
Give all Buddhists joy and hope in Jesus Christ for this life and the life to come.
Give all Jews deliverance through their Messiah and regraft them into your chosen people.
Give all unbelievers the light and life of your truth and the wisdom of your love.
Give all others entry into the peaceable Kingdom of God, the God who was born to save us.

LORD, convert all humankind to your holy religion and sanctify us in one Church.
 
Conversion, that is what the Muslim world is crying out for. Conversion to being saved by Christ.
 
It the Koran preaches peace, then why did the person who wrote it engage in violence?
 
benjohnson said:
It the Koran preaches peace, then why did the person who wrote it engage in violence?
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One thing for sure. All Muslims believe that *someday *the whole world will be under Muslim rule.They believe this as we believe in a new heaven and a new earth. The only question for them is, like us, when will this be? So some Muslims are content to wait peacefully for it is not time yet. Others see it as now and are encouraged by militant action, having a snowball effect. The more the peaceful Muslim fence sitters see the rest of the world as weak in response, or succumbing to militant demands, the more they are encouraged to get off the fence, for maybe the time is at hand.
 
benhur said:
One thing for sure. All Muslims believe that *someday *the whole world will be under Muslim rule.They believe this as we believe in a new heaven and a new earth. The only question for them is, like us, when will this be? So some Muslims are content to wait peacefully for it is not time yet. Others see it as now and are encouraged by militant action, having a snowball effect. The more the peaceful Muslim fence sitters see the rest of the world as weak in response, or succumbing to militant demands, the more they are encouraged to get off the fence, for maybe the time is at hand.
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Interesting. First time I hear that.
 
benhur said:
One thing for sure. All Muslims believe that *someday *the whole world will be under Muslim rule.They believe this as we believe in a new heaven and a new earth. The only question for them is, like us, when will this be? So some Muslims are content to wait peacefully for it is not time yet. Others see it as now and are encouraged by militant action, having a snowball effect. The more the peaceful Muslim fence sitters see the rest of the world as weak in response, or succumbing to militant demands, the more they are encouraged to get off the fence, for maybe the time is at hand.
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**
Yeah, with Jesus as the leader.**

Toward the end of time, Muslims believe Jesus will descend and gather his followers. Al Mahdi will gather the followers of Muhammad. And Al Mahdi will place his followers under the leadership of Jesus.
 
TruthBearer said:
Toward the end of time, Muslims believe Jesus will descend and gather his followers.
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As I understand it, the person that Muslims call Jesus is wholly and completely incompatible with the Christian person we understand to be Christ in Holy Trinity.

I tried this trick once when one of my Children missed their mother who was away traveling - I held up a photo of Bob Barker from the Price is Right and told the child that it was Mommy and that “she” loves you.

It didn’t work.
 
TruthBearer said:
**
Yeah, with Jesus as the leader.**

Toward the end of time, Muslims believe Jesus will descend and gather his followers. Al Mahdi will gather the followers of Muhammad. And Al Mahdi will place his followers under the leadership of Jesus.
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Wow.Thanks. Of course a different Christology, as in human prophet only. Not sure they even believe in crucifixion.
 
benjohnson said:
As I understand it, the person that Muslims call Jesus is wholly and completely incompatible with the Christian person we understand to be Christ in Holy Trinity.

I tried this trick once when one of my Children missed their mother who was away traveling - I held up a photo of Bob Barker from the Price is Right and told the child that it was Mommy and that “she” loves you.

It didn’t work.
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When Jesus returns, you Muslims and Christians can discuss those particulars with him.

I just know, Jesus will gather his followers, and I am assume them to be the Catholics, Orthodox, Mormons, Portestants, etc and Al Mahdi will gather the followers of Muhammad, the Sunnis and Shia. And Al Mahdi will turn his followers over to Jesus.

Theological debates will hopefully end, concerning Jesus, because he will be right there for you guys to ask him.:)😃
 
benhur said:
Not from me but it struck me when I first heard it also.
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An interesting tidbit on the 1961 movie El-Cid, starring Charlton Heston and Sophia Loren and taking place in 11th century.

The movie begins with a small group of muslim leaders having a pow wow. One of the leaders stands up and starts berating the other muslims for loving their science and literature and cultural advances and peaceful toleration (for centuries they were more advanced than the rest of Europe) and urges them to support his militant assault on all infidels and even threatens them if they do not .

Same old same old .
 
TruthBearer said:
When Jesus returns, you Muslims and Christians can discuss those particulars with him.

I just know, Jesus will gather his followers, and I am assume them to be the Catholics, Orthodox, Mormons, Portestants, etc and Al Mahdi will gather the followers of Muhammad, the Sunnis and Shia. And Al Mahdi will turn his followers over to Jesus.

Theological debates will hopefully end, concerning Jesus, because he will be right there for you guys to ask him.:)😃
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Well, it does say every knee shall bend before Him and all nations will honor Him. Just that now some are His friends and some are not. Jesus warns of those who think they are followers but are not. One can follow a name only and not the truth and spirit behind the name.

Blessings
 
benhur said:
Well, it does say every knee shall bend before Him and all nations will honor Him. Just that now some are His friends and some are not. Jesus warns of those who think they are followers but are not. One can follow a name only and not the truth and spirit behind the name.

Blessings
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True
 
benjohnson said:
It the Koran preaches peace, then why did the person who wrote it engage in violence?
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Like Mufti Menk, I view Islam as peaceful. Let us also keep in mind, David engaged in violence.

*Hatf

Hatf is a sword which the prophet Muhammad took as booty from the Banu Qaynaqa. It is said that King David took his sword “al-Battar” from Goliath as booty when he defeated him, but he was less than 20 years old. God gave King David the ability to work with iron, to make armor and weapons and instruments of war, and he made for himself a sword. It was thus that the Hatf sword came about, resembling the al-Battar but larger than it. He used this sword and it was passed onto the tribe of Levites who kept the weapons of the Israelites until it passed into the hands of the prophet Muhammad.

Today this sword is housed in the Topkapi museum. The blade is 112 cm in length and has a width of 8 cm. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa 'uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).*

more,

usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/index.html
 
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