Does the Roman Church allow its members to Practice Hesychastic prayer?

[Gregory_I]

Does the Roman Church advocate or at least tolerate its members practice of Hesychastic Prayer and Siding with Saint Gregory Palamas on the Essence/Energy theoretical distinction?

I really would like to dig into this, but I do not want to be in disobedience to the Roman Catholic Church.

Please Help. Tnx.

 

[gmcbroom]

What is Hesychastic Prayer?

 

[Monica4316]

I think Eastern Catholics might… under the guidance of a spiritual father

the Vatican allows Eastern Catholics to practice Eastern traditions and devotions

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Catholics of any particular church are permitted to practice hesychastic prayer in their private devotions and to side with St. Gregory Palamas in their theological opinion. These are not dogmatic issues, but are simply differences in theological opinion, emphasis and approach. That being said, I think it’d be considered a “Byzantinization” for a member of a non-Byzantine church to practice this form of spirituality. But with the amount of Byzantines who pray the Rosary, go to Eucharistic Adoration, attend Stations of the Cross, etc. in their private devotions, I wouldn’t condemn a non-Byzantine for practicing hesychasm.

If you’re interested in a similar spirituality from within the Roman tradition, I would recommend reading St. John of the Cross. Since he was steeped in the writtings of the Desert Fathers, his spirituality very much has an “Eastern/Byzantine” flavor. I’ll admit that I didn’t really begin to grasp what the “dark night of faith” was until I started exploring the Byzantine tradition and became Melkite. I highly recommend him to anyone and everyone!

As a beginner’s source for Byzantine spirituality/hesychasm I’d recommend “The Art of Prayer” and “The Face of God” if you don’t have a spiritual father. “The Face of God” will help you to begin understanding and putting on the Byzantine mindset (phronema), while “The Art of Prayer” simply has great advice that can speak to people at any level of spiritual growth.

May God bless your journey!

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I think Eastern Catholics might… under the guidance of a spiritual father

the Vatican allows Eastern Catholics to practice Eastern traditions and devotions

I don’t want to throw this thread off topic, but I’d like to point out that the Vatican does not “allow” Eastern Catholics to practice Eastern traditions and devotions. Rather, the Vatican recognizes that those traditions, devotions, theology, etc. are all the rightful inheritence of Eastern Christians and that it (i.e. the Vatican) does not have the authority to deny them their rightful heritage. What the Vatican does is encourage Eastern Catholics to have the courage to be themselves, to return to their full heritage where they’ve fallen away from it, and to assist them in that return.

I hope I’m not sounding rude in my comments here, I don’t intend to be. I simply want to clear up a common misperception.

God bless!

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother gmcbroom,

What is Hesychastic Prayer?

Hesychasm is an Eastern Christian ascetic practice. It cites Oriental Christian monastic sources, but the development is distinctly Eastern (i.e., Byzantine). What it shares with the Orient is the same thing that Western ascetism shares with the Orient - the ideal of withdrawal from and rejection of all things worldly.

From what I’ve read, what distinguishes it from Western and Oriental mysticism is primarily the idea that a taboric experience of God can be induced through a fixed methodology;

It has two features similar to non-Christian Eastern mysticism:

1. The use of a fixed methodology for attaining a certain level of consciousness or awareness;
2. The notion of emptying oneself to the point of rejecting sensory (name removed by moderator)ut.

Of course, what distinguishes it from non-Christian Eastern mysticism is the Christo-centric focus of its methodology and its end.

Personally, I believe the practice could have dangerous spiritual consequences for the uninitiated who attempts it without explicit guidance from a spiritual Father. I have read two true stories of demonic possession by people who practiced non-Christian Eastern mysticism. Such a practice indeed leaves one more open, spiritually speaking. The goal of the hesychast is to open oneself up to God, but an inexperienced or new practicioner has the danger of opening oneself up to another sort of spirit altogether. In fact, hesychasm warns against enjoining the exercise with any notions of pride or other non-virtuous thoughts and worldly concerns. That would be difficult for most of us, I think.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

I don’t want to throw this thread off topic, but I’d like to point out that the Vatican does not “allow” Eastern Catholics to practice Eastern traditions and devotions. Rather, the Vatican recognizes that those traditions, devotions, theology, etc. are all the rightful inheritence of Eastern Christians and that it (i.e. the Vatican) does not have the authority to deny them their rightful heritage. What the Vatican does is encourage Eastern Catholics to have the courage to be themselves, to return to their full heritage where they’ve fallen away from it, and to assist them in that return.

I hope I’m not sounding rude in my comments here, I don’t intend to be. I simply want to clear up a common misperception.

God bless!

:clapping:
:tiphat:
:bowdown:

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

**Personally, I believe the practice could have dangerous spiritual consequences for the uninitiated who attempts it without explicit guidance from a spiritual Father. I have read two true stories of demonic possession by people who practiced non-Christian Eastern mysticism. Such a practice indeed leaves one more open, spiritually speaking. The goal of the hesychast is to open oneself up to God, but an inexperienced or new practicioner has the danger of opening oneself up to another sort of spirit altogether. In fact, hesychasm warns against enjoining the exercise with any notions of pride or other non-virtuous thoughts and worldly concerns. That would be difficult for most of us, I think.
**
Blessings,
Marduk

Metropolitan Jonah (OCA), Metropolitan Kallistos (Ware) of Diokleia, and many of the Russian ascetics emphasize the importance of a spiritual father because of the fact that you do open yourself up to a great deal of spiritual warfare. In his address to the Orientale Lumen XIII conference, Met. Jonah even mentioned circumstances he had encountered where people were literally driven insane because they practiced hesychasm without the guide of a spiritual father. Met. Kallistos also emphasizes the importance of a guide, but, in conjunction with the Fathers, recognizes that a good guide is hard to come by. In such cases it is recommended that you do a great deal of spiritual reading. Hence my recommendations of “The Art of Prayer” and “The Face of God.” Also, at some point, it would be good to read the “Philokalia,” but I wouldn’t recommend this when you’re first getting started.

 

[josephdaniel29]

the Vatican allows Eastern Catholics to practice Eastern traditions and devotions

I know you didn’t intend it that way but this statement is incredibly condescending. I’m not trying to be confrontational or rude but attitudes like this are a large part of the reason so many Orthodox would never consider uniting with the Catholic Church.

In Christ,
Joe

 

[CatholicFireman]

I know you didn’t intend it that way but this statement is incredibly condescending. I’m not trying to be confrontational or rude but attitudes like this are a large part of the reason so many Orthodox would never consider uniting with the Catholic Church.

In Christ,
Joe

I think maybe the she meant Eastern rite Catholics in union with Rome.

Pax†

 

[Stephentlig]

Is a Hesychast the same as an Anchorite? I love the works of St.John of the Cross, although I must admit I have not read it all. I also have a great love for the Philokalia.

From reading Athanasius diary on St.Anthony the great one gets a sense that there is a lot of mental problems one can encounter too, for the closer we become to God the more the demon becomes enraged, St.Anthony was found paralysed in the catacombs at one stage, and from what Athanasius said he looked like a mad man, and they had to carry him home until he recovered and then he went back out again.

I have no Spiritual Father, but reading the Philokalia gives me great comfort and the writings of the Mystics also. We have to understand why it is we choose the Hesychastic life, is it because we want to be closer to God? or is it because we want to leave people because we think they are an obstacle to us being closer to God? the latter would be prideful ( hate that word ) and I think a person has to do a lot of Spiritual training and spend a lot of time in prayer before heading into such a way of life, but…of course… St.Anthony the great received no training and just went for it, and you can too, but by doing so you really are opening yourself up to a possible danger, so I would seek out a Spiritual Father first. I also am gonna read the books recommended in this thread.

 

[josephdaniel29]

I think maybe the she meant Eastern rite Catholics in union with Rome.

Pax†

I am aware of that.

My point was hearing a Latin Catholic make a statement like the Vatican “allows” Eastern Catholics (in union with Rome ) to practice their traditions makes the Orthodox extremely apprehensive. The idea that we would have to rely on the good will of the Pope to allow us to practice the faith the way we received it is not very encouraging. The reality is if the Vatican “allows” something they can decide to no longer allow it.

That is something that we would never accept and apparently Eastern Catholics don’t accept it either.

In Christ,
Joe

 

[CatholicFireman]

I am aware of that.

My point was hearing a Latin Catholic make a statement like the Vatican “allows” Eastern Catholics (in union with Rome ) to practice their traditions makes the Orthodox extremely apprehensive. The idea that we would have to rely on the good will of the Pope to allow us to practice the faith the way we received it is not very encouraging. The reality is if the Vatican “allows” something they can decide to no longer allow it.

That is something that we would never accept and apparently Eastern Catholics don’t accept it either.

In Christ,
Joe

Ah, well, like you said. I don’t think she meant it that way.

 

[Contarini]

Catholics of any particular church are permitted to practice hesychastic prayer in their private devotions and to side with St. Gregory Palamas in their theological opinion. These are not dogmatic issues, but are simply differences in theological opinion, emphasis and approach. That being said, I think it’d be considered a “Byzantinization” for a member of a non-Byzantine church to practice this form of spirituality. But with the amount of Byzantines who pray the Rosary, go to Eucharistic Adoration, attend Stations of the Cross, etc. in their private devotions, I wouldn’t condemn a non-Byzantine for practicing hesychasm.

I find this entire set of issues disturbing, because the approach of the Roman Communion starts to look a lot like Protestant denominationalism–different groups allegedly within one Church with different theologies and liturgies, whose members can be expected to practice the spirituality appropriate to their particular group,

I think diversity is great. But if the Catholic Church is really one Church, then an individual Catholic ought to be able to hold any theological opinion accepted within the one Church and practice privately any form of spirituality legitimate within the one Church.

I am concerned about this because I’m a Western Christian who is coming to see Eastern theology and spirituality as preferable in many ways, and who has long held a view of the Papacy quite similar to that of many Eastern Catholics (“High Petrine” in mardukm’s terms). Yet I refuse to convert to “Eastern Catholicism”–if the claims of Catholicism are true, then there is one Catholicism and conversion should mean the same thing throughout your Communion.

Edwin

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Edwin,

I find this entire set of issues disturbing, because the approach of the Roman Communion starts to look a lot like Protestant denominationalism–different groups allegedly within one Church with different theologies and liturgies, whose members can be expected to practice the spirituality appropriate to their particular group,

A group of Churches believing in the same dogmas with different groups within that one Church expressing those dogmas in their own respective theological Traditions (Catholicism) is altogether different from a group of churches believing in different dogmas with those groups thinking that the dogmas should not separate them. What do you think?

I think diversity is great. But if the Catholic Church is really one Church, then an individual Catholic ought to be able to hold any theological opinion accepted within the one Church and practice privately any form of spirituality legitimate within the one Church.

That’s the way it is. It’s just a matter of obtaining the knowledge that such different spiritualities/practices exist. Most Easterns and Orientals are aware of the Latin practices, but most Westerns are not aware of the Eastern and Oriental practices.

Yet I refuse to convert to “Eastern Catholicism”–if the claims of Catholicism are true, then there is one Catholicism and conversion should mean the same thing throughout your Communion.

Yes. All Catholics have the same DOGMATIC Faith, albeit expressed differently within the different Traditions.

Have you read my “Catholic Dogmas and the Oriental Tradition” thread? That my help out a bit.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Gregory_I]

I cannot find the book “The face of God” online anywhere. Can anyone link to it?

Thanks alot for everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut. I appreciate it. Is there any documentation given by the Vatican detailing their: -“Aha, hesychasm isn’t quietism afterall!”- moment?

 

[TempleofTheSoul]

I cannot find the book “The face of God” online anywhere. Can anyone link to it?

Thanks alot for everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut. I appreciate it. Is there any documentation given by the Vatican detailing their: -“Aha, hesychasm isn’t quietism afterall!”- moment?

I think the poster meant the book “The Face of God” by the Melkite Archbishop, Archbishop Joseph M. Raya

It will help you as a starting point in getting more familiar with Byzantine spirituality. I have a copy of this book that I have only just started. Here is a link to Amazon where you can buy a used copy if you wish to.

amazon.com/Face-God-Introduction-Eastern-Spirituality/dp/B003B6TW0Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275446767&sr=1-1

God bless

EDITED TO ADD: There is a short review on the “Face of God” book by the Archbishop at the bottom of this webpage link here at Catholic Answers.

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9701rvws.asp

 

[5Loaves]

I cannot find the book “The face of God” online anywhere. Can anyone link to it?

byzcath.org/byzsempress/prayer.htm

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

“The Face of God” is also available through ecpubs.com. We carry a large selection of Kyr Joseph Raya’s books. Sadly we don’t carry everything that he wrote, but we do have the bulk of it. I recommend pretty much anything that Kyr Raya has written.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

One more thing. If you decide to get “The Face of God” from Eastern Christian Publications (ecpubs.com) you’ll find that it is not listed under the rest of Kyr Raya’s books. Instead it is listed under the “Adult Catechetical” section. I don’t know why our website is set up like that, but that’s the way it is. Again, I strongly urge anything that Kyr Raya has written. We (Eastern Christian Publications) carry most of his stuff. There’s also a couple of other things availabe through the Eparchy of Newton’s publishing company, Sophia Press.

I hope this helps. I started reading “Face of God” again last night. The Prologue is only two pages long, but it gave me so much to think about that I just had to stop.

God bless you in your journey.