Does the sacramental system breed nominal Christians?

[Kaily]

Hey,

I was listening to a talk by William Lane Craig, and he was speaking of sacraments and sacramental baptism in particular, and said he thought the danger of this belief was that you find a Church full of nominal Christians. He pointed out how the churches are empty in Europe, and are largely Catholic/Lutherans over there and they are nominal Christians. I’m going to have to disagree with him on this, for one because I think that you find a huge majority of Christians in our Country to be nominal as well and yes the Catholic Church is full of them, but so is the evangelical world. So it has to be more than being in a Sacramental Church. What do you guys think about what he said and what do you think the main problem is with all the nomianl Christians in the Catholic Church and also the world?

God Bless,
Kaily

 

[Joe_5859]

Hey,

I was listening to a talk by William Lane Craig, and he was speaking of sacraments and sacramental baptism in particular, and said he thought the danger of this belief was that you find a Church full of nominal Christians. He pointed out how the churches are empty in Europe, and are largely Catholic/Lutherans over there and they are nominal Christians. I’m going to have to disagree with him on this, for one because I think that you find a huge majority of Christians in our Country to be nominal as well and yes the Catholic Church is full of them, but so is the evangelical world. So it has to be more than being in a Sacramental Church. What do you guys think about what he said and what do you think the main problem is with all the nomianl Christians in the Catholic Church and also the world?

God Bless,
Kaily

You’re right, he’s wrong.

Correlation does not imply causation. There are a number of reasons for the decline in Church attendance in Europe. The sacraments don’t have anything to do with it.

 

[Cluny]

My experience and observation is that pop-evangelicalism breeds nominal Christians.

The problem is not the sacraments. The problem is nominal Christians.

 

[crazzeto]

My experience and observation is that pop-evangelicalism breeds nominal Christians.

The problem is not the sacraments. The problem is nominal Christians.

I think the real problem here is two fold, firm beliefs is Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. I’d suggest the opposite in the case of the Sacraments, I’d suggest they remind us of our accountability to God.

But Sola Scriptura assurs many Christians that whatever they read (or rather, in many cases read into the bible) is right and can’t be argued by anyone not even their own pastor

And Sola Fide assures (falsely IMHO anyway) many Christian’s that there is no accountability for sin. Oh some believers in the philosophy like to say that “well if you don’t have the works then clearly you didn’t have the faith so you’re not saved”. But that’s not what Sola Fide says, and it’s also not true. The bible reminds us that the Daemons (fallen angles) believe, I would suggest that they know rather than just beleive and yet… They are no longer in the presence of God for some reason.

So this leads to any lack of motiviation to live the Christian faith. And as it so happens I live smack dab in the middle of the protistant bible belt, I’m one of a very few numbers of Catholics in my group of friends. I see Sola Fide theory being put into practice in my group of friends on a regular basis.

 

[Bluegoat]

Well, I think it can. I have seen examples of what he is describing. That does not mean sacrementalism is wrong, or it will always have that effect, but it can especially when united with a lack of good teaching, or bad liturgy.

I think what can happen is people can develop the attitude that religion is something that is like a pill, or a vaccination. The emphasis is on God’s action, and less is put on the side of the person in the equation, the place of the will, and of love.

I can think of a number of ways one sees this. One is the idea that with baptism, you have to get the baby “done”. As if the sacramental act is the only important part. My father, raised a Catholic (now he is some sort of undefined heretic I guess) actually thinks this applies to him as an adult. Another example is people who think that confession magically wipes things away even with no intent to change, or plan to commit sin and then confess.

But what I think is where I notice it most is something which is very common in Catholic Churches, and uncommon in most others - leaving immediately after receiving the Eucharist. Not even going back to the pew often, but out the door. My Catholic friend calls this the “magic cookie” effect, which sounds terrible but I think that is the attitude that leads to it being so common.

So if it is true, what to do about it? I guess making sure people understand their own role in the sacraments is the most important thing, through good teaching and good liturgy.