Does the Seal of Confession apply to personal actions?

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nfinke

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I get that if you go into confession and confess even to murder, the priest can’t convey any knowledge to the authorities or do something that would cause you to suffer for that.

But let’s say you go into the confessional and say “Father John, I stole your car last week.”

By the same standard, the priest would be forbidden from reporting you to the authorities, but would he even be forbidden from pulling you aside after Mass (in total private) and saying “hey man, could you give me my car back?”

The person wouldn’t be facing any actual consequences for the sin, and the confession would still be private between the priest and the confessor.

The other thing I thought of was: what if the guy in the confessional said, “Father John, I have sinned by seriously contemplating murdering you, and have barely withheld the urge on multiple occasions.”

Even in that situation, would the priest not be allowed to treat them differently? What if they bought a gun, or a security system in response to that revelation? Would that be in line with the Seal if they refused to tell anyone who asked, “why did you start behaving so differently after Tom’s last confession?”

Or again, what if he said “father John, I have been seriously contemplating murdering father Nate, and I don’t know how much longer I can fight the temptation. I was planning to do it on Tuesday.”

The priest really can’t go to father Nate and say “I strongly suggest you go stay with some friends Tuesday night. That’s all I’ll say about that.”?
 
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nfinke said:
By the same standard, the priest would be forbidden from reporting you to the authorities, but would he even be forbidden from pulling you aside after Mass (in total private) and saying “hey man, could you give me my car back?”
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Correct. That information was revealed under the Seal, and Father may not break it.
 
nfinke said:
By the same standard, the priest would be forbidden from reporting you to the authorities, but would he even be forbidden from pulling you aside after Mass (in total private) and saying “hey man, could you give me my car back?”
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He cannot speak to your outside of confession about what you confessed. Now, in the confessional, he may ask “may I please speak to you about this in my office on Tuesday at 2 PM?”

For your “I am going to commit X sin at Y time”, the priest would tell you, he cannot absolve you of a sin you have not committed. He can counsel you for 3 hours in the confessional (as any priest I know would do). He cannot reveal your confession in any way.
 
So if he said to meet him later, then in that context he could say then “so last Saturday you confessed X to me…” And that’d be ok?
 
ONLY if you gave him permission to speak to you outside of the confessional. If you did not grant permission, he cannot mention it.
 
The goal of the mounting political pressure on priests to reveal the sin of a molester, has the real goal of hindering people from going to confession. The devil knows the importance of confession, and is exerting whatever force he can do to stop the faithful from going there.

We had a priest over who became very silent when we asked him about a confession. He said that any reveal from the priest penitent seal by a priest will condemn him to hell.
 
nfinke said:
Even in that situation, would the priest not be allowed to treat them differently? What if they bought a gun, or a security system in response to that revelation? Would that be in line with the Seal if they refused to tell anyone who asked, “why did you start behaving so differently after Tom’s last confession?”
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I have wondered about this kind of thing. Let’s say that a person in the confessional (I won’t call them a “penitent” because they wouldn’t be repentant) says “Father, I know there is a window in the rectory that can easily be opened from the outside, and I am going to open that window in the middle of the night, and come in and kill you”. Would Father be able to secure that window (by nailing it shut, putting epoxy in the window sill, painting it shut, what have you), or would he have to leave it alone? And would he be able to take extra steps, steps he would not otherwise take, to prepare for being broken in on and attacked? Make sure he had a gun in easy reach? Take a last-minute overnight trip so that he wouldn’t be there? Or does he have to go on about his business, no changes in his routine, and try to put the threat out of his mind?
 
Lenny said:
The goal of the mounting political pressure on priests to reveal the sin of a molester, has the real goal of hindering people from going to confession. The devil knows the importance of confession, and is exerting whatever force he can do to stop the faithful from going there.
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Lenny is this your true belief? That people seeking to provide a further layer of protection for children against sexual abuse are really being manipulated by the devil?
 
FiveLinden said:
That people seeking to provide a further layer of protection for children against sexual abuse are really being manipulated by the devil?
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I cannot speak for Lenny, but my take on it is more like that the devil is using the very real abuse crisis to encourage some people to push for things that won’t actually help with the real problem and will (or could) cause other damage. And maybe not so much directly manipulating good hearted people but perhaps people who just like to make trouble and clothe it in “but it’s for the children” when those individuals couldn’t actually care less about any child.
 
I think we can come up with all sorts of scenarios, each one worse than the last, and ask if the seal still applies in this situation and that situation and some other situation.

But the truth is, what we really want to know is “does this apply to my situation?” If I reveal the worst thing about myself to a priest in confession, will he tell anyone else? Will he treat me differently now that he knows what I did?

And the answer is that your confession is confidential no matter what. The priest isn’t going to gossip about you or bring up your situation n a homily or avoid you in the future. What you say to the priest in confession stays there.
 
nfinke said:
By the same standard, the priest would be forbidden from reporting you to the authorities, but would he even be forbidden from pulling you aside after Mass (in total private) and saying “hey man, could you give me my car back?”
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Yes, but the priest is allowed to say that during mass. He’s even allowed to say “Your penance includes giving me my car back.” He can’t force the penitent to turn himself in, but other than that he can ask for a lot.
 
nfinke said:
but would he even be forbidden from pulling you aside after Mass (in total private) and saying “hey man, could you give me my car back?”
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Nothing stopping Father from counselling you to do that during confession either! After all, it is common that you are advised to make reparation/ensure justice is made especially concerning theft.
nfinke said:
“Father John, I have sinned by seriously contemplating murdering you, and have barely withheld the urge on multiple occasions.”
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Again, the same applies - counselling you during confession. And I’m sure he’d thank God for inhibiting your desires.
nfinke said:
What if they bought a gun, or a security system in response to that revelation? Would that be in line with the Seal
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Yes, as this does not betray or reveal the sins of any penitent.
nfinke said:
“why did you start behaving so differently after Tom’s last confession?”
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Just how would anyone else know these actions were undertaken as a direct result of a particular persons’ confession - and what was confessed? - for anyone to even ask the priest.
nfinke said:
“father John, I have been seriously contemplating murdering father Nate, and I don’t know how much longer I can fight the temptation. I was planning to do it on Tuesday.”
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Counselling the penitent during confession. The priest could also send this other priest out on some business/necessity.
nfinke said:
and say “I strongly suggest you go stay with some friends Tuesday night. That’s all I’ll say about that.”?
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Again, saying this does not reveal the sin of any particular penitent.

Code of Canon Law
“Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason.”

Father would have to state the persons name to another, point to the penitents picture or identify the actual individual in order to betray a person and reveal their sin.

Why all the hypothetical questions???
 
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The priest can do nothing that would reveal to a 3rd party what was said in Confession. Also remember, people can threaten to do things, but, they cannot confess what has not yet been done.

I wonder where all of these people are who go tell a priest the sins they are considering?

Every priest I’ve ever known would rather face you climbing in the window than reveal what you said in confession.

This is comforting because I know even my terrible sins will not be revealed.
 
FiveLinden said:
That people seeking to provide a further layer of protection for children against sexual abuse are really being manipulated by the devil?
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The same people that want to lower the age of consent. Do you really think they have the safety of children in mind when making these laws?
 
Who do you think is putting pressure on Priests to divulge this information?
 
The priest cannot treat the person any different after confession, nor reveal anything.

So, the scenario of a person confessing he stole the priest’s car. Priest can’t do anything.

The scenario where the person says, I want to come in the loose window in the rectory and kill you. Priest is fine about fixing the window. He is not treating the penetent any different.
 
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