Does the structure of the sacrament of Reconciliation lead to scrupulosity?

[Rahn]

I’ve just recently (recent in this case equals in the last five years) became aware of scrupolosity. My brother-in-law is borderline scrupulous. I have to admit that I don’t understand it.

I’ve noticed that some members here say they are scrupulous and that there is even a group. It’s gotten me to thinking about it and wondering…

There’s also a lot here about “is this a sin” and mortal and venial sins and so on. Is it possible that the way the sacrament of Reconciliation is being practiced is leading to or bringing out scrupulous behaviour in those that might be prone to it?

From another angle, in some of the parishes around me, the priests are cutting back on confession times and hanging signs to the nature of confession not being for advice. It indicates to me that priests are feeling overworked and maybe if the sacrament of Reconciliation was reworked a bit that it might help.

I’m not certain about this and I’m not sure exactly how Reconciliation could be changed. I understand the Biblical mandate for it, but it occurs to me that the nature of the sacrament could be changed and still be true to the mandate.

I may be way off on this, what do you think?

 

[Cat]

I’ve just recently (recent in this case equals in the last five years) became aware of scrupolosity. My brother-in-law is borderline scrupulous. I have to admit that I don’t understand it.

I’ve noticed that some members here say they are scrupulous and that there is even a group. It’s gotten me to thinking about it and wondering…

There’s also a lot here about “is this a sin” and mortal and venial sins and so on. Is it possible that the way the sacrament of Reconciliation is being practiced is leading to or bringing out scrupulous behaviour in those that might be prone to it?

From another angle, in some of the parishes around me, the priests are cutting back on confession times and hanging signs to the nature of confession not being for advice. It indicates to me that priests are feeling overworked and maybe if the sacrament of Reconciliation was reworked a bit that it might help.

I’m not certain about this and I’m not sure exactly how Reconciliation could be changed. I understand the Biblical mandate for it, but it occurs to me that the nature of the sacrament could be changed and still be true to the mandate.

I may be way off on this, what do you think?

According to what I have read on CAF, scrupulosity is simliar to OCD.

So it seems to me that a scrupulous person would be scrupulous no matter how the sacrament of Reconciliation was done.

 

[Philotheatoo]

My brother’s fiancee is scrupulous and they go to counseling together to help with the problem ~ the word ‘problem’ indicating to me that this is a condition experienced only by certain persons; not persons who practice certain beliefs. I do not believe receiving a sacrament could ever carry with it anything but pure, miraculous, loving grace.

I understand a person’s need to be ‘perfect’, to do something ‘perfectly’, and/or to obsess over certain things and I believe it has more to do with certain personality traits.

I do believe that priests are overworked and I am guilty on occasion of asking a question in the confessional however; a shortage of priests is a problem the church needs to deal with and we need to pray about but, the individual Catholic who seeks counsel from their parish priest should not have to suffer due to that lack of priests. If their question can be answered through research or by a Deacon~they should seek that out but, if they need counsel from their parish priest, those needs should be met. I believe it has come to a point where they can only get that in the confessional. It is at least so for those of us in large cities.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I’ve just recently (recent in this case equals in the last five years) became aware of scrupolosity. My brother-in-law is borderline scrupulous. I have to admit that I don’t understand it.

I may be way off on this, what do you think?

I think the structure of confession may lead to that.
The emphasis on lists of sins and less emphasis on conversion and change of life.
I mean you should distinguish between killing your mother or killing a plant, but some distinctions are so thin and narrow that you may fall into the pit of trying to distinguish between stealing 1 000 000 dolars and stealing 1 000 001 dolars.
I feel that people suffer a lot for that. This is not new.
St Igantius of Loyola had a book on Scrupolosity.

 

[1ke]

Scrupulosity is an illness in the family of OCD and other anxiety disorders. It is very real and, no, it is not caused by the structure of the sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[JRKH]

Rahn,
I think you have hit on something that is quite true and I find it to be troublesome as well. To me it is important to note that there is nothing wrong with the Sacrament itself, but as you note, there may be a problem with how it is currently practiced in the U.S.

I believe the problem stems from poor catechesis and a lack of growth beyond what we are taught as children making our first confession at age 7 years or so.
To keep things simple we are taught (and the Church still teaches) the form of using the 10 commandments for examination of conscience and then confessing type and number of sins to the priest. Also around this time we are given a rudimentary understanding about “Mortal sin” and “Venial sin”. Such teaching comes about when we are still small and are learning “obedience”, conformity to rules, more than we are learning conformity to Christ.

The problem with this approach is that as we get older and our lives become more complicated, some people - and not just OCD types - can find themselves missing the “moral compass” they need to make valid judgements on what constitutes sin and the gravity of a given transgression. The Moral compass I am speaking of is Godly, Agape Love.
Akin to this, is that, by getting stuck in this childish “formula” of confession one can miss the deeper, “root causes”, for the various sins. Using myself as an example, I have problems with my temper. Do I continually go in and confess that I “yelled at my wife 4 times” or do I seek out the underlying fault (selfishness) - the lack of loving patience - that is the cause of my yelling?

Your comment above abut priests placing notices saying that confession is not for advice also concerns me to an extent. Confession IS for advice, or should be…
Of course confession is a very specific and limited time frame and it would be uncharitable to take more time than is necessary, but one should feel free to bring up a troubling matter, get some quick advice/(name removed by moderator)ut and then, upon reflection, if further help is needed, to make an appointment to talk to your confessor at length.

Sorry - I do tend to babble -
The long and short is that the problem for many is that we were (are) not taught a more mature and deeply spiritual way of examining conscience (at least I wasn’t). We weren’t taught the “why’s” of the “rules” so that we could make a reasoned determination on what was truly mortal.
For some this has led to difficulties with scrupulosity while for others I’m afraid it has led to a tendency toward laxity. Of course what we see here in the boards is the scrupulosity. I fear that Laxity is the bigger danger though.

Peace
James

 

[Rahn]

Scrupulosity is an illness in the family of OCD and other anxiety disorders. It is very real and, no, it is not caused by the structure of the sacrament of Reconciliation.

Thanks. I wasn’t saying that the structure of Reconciliation causes it, rather that it might exacerbate it.

 

[Bookcat]

No …not per se.

Though certainly among those who are scrupulous or have some degree of difficulty with scruples…there can be particular scruples related to confession.

But there can be scruples related to saying Mass too!

And Mass is not leading to scrupulosity per se

Those who have such a difficulty need to have indeed a “regular confessor” who they can meet with …well regularly

Confession can be a place for certain “advice” etc…so I would disagree with what you noted some Priests have done.

(though perhaps if that particular time for confession …is just a brief period that day before Mass…then I can see that need to keep things rather short…and for the person to come to the other confession times for advice…or make an appointment if it is needing more time)

The advice though would be about the moral life generally.

Not “should I move to Texas or New Jersey?” Of course.

 

[OraLabora]

Rahn,
I think you have hit on something that is quite true and I find it to be troublesome as well. To me it is important to note that there is nothing wrong with the Sacrament itself, but as you note, there may be a problem with how it is currently practiced in the U.S.

I believe the problem stems from poor catechesis and a lack of growth beyond what we are taught as children making our first confession at age 7 years or so.
To keep things simple we are taught (and the Church still teaches) the form of using the 10 commandments for examination of conscience and then confessing type and number of sins to the priest. Also around this time we are given a rudimentary understanding about “Mortal sin” and “Venial sin”. Such teaching comes about when we are still small and are learning “obedience”, conformity to rules, more than we are learning conformity to Christ.

The problem with this approach is that as we get older and our lives become more complicated, some people - and not just OCD types - can find themselves missing the “moral compass” they need to make valid judgements on what constitutes sin and the gravity of a given transgression. The Moral compass I am speaking of is Godly, Agape Love.
Akin to this, is that, by getting stuck in this childish “formula” of confession one can miss the deeper, “root causes”, for the various sins. Using myself as an example, I have problems with my temper. Do I continually go in and confess that I “yelled at my wife 4 times” or do I seek out the underlying fault (selfishness) - the lack of loving patience - that is the cause of my yelling?

Your comment above abut priests placing notices saying that confession is not for advice also concerns me to an extent. Confession IS for advice, or should be…
Of course confession is a very specific and limited time frame and it would be uncharitable to take more time than is necessary, but one should feel free to bring up a troubling matter, get some quick advice/(name removed by moderator)ut and then, upon reflection, if further help is needed, to make an appointment to talk to your confessor at length.

Sorry - I do tend to babble -
The long and short is that the problem for many is that we were (are) not taught a more mature and deeply spiritual way of examining conscience (at least I wasn’t). We weren’t taught the “why’s” of the “rules” so that we could make a reasoned determination on what was truly mortal.
For some this has led to difficulties with scrupulosity while for others I’m afraid it has led to a tendency toward laxity. Of course what we see here in the boards is the scrupulosity. I fear that Laxity is the bigger danger though.

Peace
James

Good post. I think this focus on legalistic confession is indeed a problem. The sacrament should be the starting point, or at least a tool for, transformative change, not following a rule book. To that end a greater emphasis on God’s patience, love and mercy in helping us identify our deep-seated issues is needed. A combined spiritual director/confessor might be helpful to that end.

For me, it was a blindingly obvious observation, arrived at through confession, that helped me with transformation: the simple fact that “it’s not all about me”. Confession that ignores human psychology is likely to end up becoming a meaningless repetitive act with the same sins confessed over and over again.

I actually have two confessors, one is my spiritual director whom I meet with a couple of years, and one is my “emergency” confessor, the priest who handles confessions before Mass at the Abbey I’m affiliated with. They both helped me understand that some deep issues from the past mitigated much of the “willingly consent” part of the mortal sin trilogy, and that while God indeed forgave me, I needed to learn to forgive myself. It was then that true transformation and healing was able to begin.

 

[JRKH]

Good post. I think this focus on legalistic confession is indeed a problem. The sacrament should be the starting point, or at least a tool for, transformative change, not following a rule book. To that end a greater emphasis on God’s patience, love and mercy in helping us identify our deep-seated issues is needed. A combined spiritual director/confessor might be helpful to that end.

For me, it was a blindingly obvious observation, arrived at through confession, that helped me with transformation: the simple fact that “it’s not all about me”. Confession that ignores human psychology is likely to end up becoming a meaningless repetitive act with the same sins confessed over and over again.

I actually have two confessors, one is my spiritual director whom I meet with a couple of years, and one is my “emergency” confessor, the priest who handles confessions before Mass at the Abbey I’m affiliated with. They both helped me understand that some deep issues from the past mitigated much of the “willingly consent” part of the mortal sin trilogy, and that while God indeed forgave me, I needed to learn to forgive myself. It was then that true transformation and healing was able to begin.

Thank you for your kind words.

For me the realization came when I returned to the Church after 35 years.
How do you confess, but type and number, 35 years of sin?? It was just mind boggling. My first confession back was woefully inadequate…
But then as I studied, I was reminded of the “Seven deadly sins”. As I looked them over I realized that these were the underlying “root cause” (from my Quality assurance background) for my sins and these were the faults that led me out of the church, governed my sinful actions, and were still with me even as I returned to the sacraments.

So - I prayed and meditated on this, wrote out a short confession based on the seven deadly sins, and went to confession again. When I came out, I felt more relieved than I had ever felt in my life.

To this day, whenever I sin, whenever I examine my conscience, I always come back to these. The underlying causes that I must work on. These are the things that, as Jesus said, “spring from the heart” (Mt 15:18)(Mk 7:21)

Peace
James

 

[Books4me]

For me the realization came when I returned to the Church after 35 years.
How do you confess, but type and number, 35 years of sin??

It is overwhelming probably to most people, but if you’re scrupulous it feels next to impossible. I don’t think confession caused me to become scrupulous because I think I had the tendency to begin with. However, I do think confession has made it grow to an intolerable level for me. I get caught up in the details, such as detailing of the sin and how many times it was committed. I also worry that I’ve forgotten something, and to a person with these OCD behaviors it’s pretty much impossible to let these things go. I think that if confession didn’t require such details as type and times committed, my scrupulosity would decrease to a much more tolerable level.

 

[JRKH]

It is overwhelming probably to most people, but if you’re scrupulous it feels next to impossible. I don’t think confession caused me to become scrupulous because I think I had the tendency to begin with. However, I do think confession has made it grow to an intolerable level for me. I get caught up in the details, such as detailing of the sin and how many times it was committed. I also worry that I’ve forgotten something, and to a person with these OCD behaviors it’s pretty much impossible to let these things go. I think that if confession didn’t require such details as type and times committed, my scrupulosity would decrease to a much more tolerable level.

Well said.
I understand and sympathize.

I agree that if you could approach confession with a different, more positive, viewpoint it would be of great help.
The thing that I love about the “seven deadly sins” approach is that there is the corresponding “seven heavenly virtues” counterpart. I know of no such counterpart in the 10 commandments approach to confession.

Seven Deadly Sins = Greed, Pride, Envy, Lust, Anger, Gluttony, and Sloth.

Seven Contrary Virtues = Humility, Kindness, Abstinence, Chastity, Patience, Charity, Diligence.

Practicing these virtues protects one against temptation toward the Seven Deadly Sins: humility against pride, kindness against envy, abstinence against gluttony, chastity against lust, patience against anger, liberality against greed, and diligence against sloth.

I should think that this approach would give the person battling Scrupulosity a much more positive framework and outlook.

Peace
James

 

[OraLabora]

Well said.
I understand and sympathize.

I agree that if you could approach confession with a different, more positive, viewpoint it would be of great help.
The thing that I love about the “seven deadly sins” approach is that there is the corresponding “seven heavenly virtues” counterpart. I know of no such counterpart in the 10 commandments approach to confession.

Seven Deadly Sins = Greed, Pride, Envy, Lust, Anger, Gluttony, and Sloth.

Seven Contrary Virtues = Humility, Kindness, Abstinence, Chastity, Patience, Charity, Diligence.

Practicing these virtues protects one against temptation toward the Seven Deadly Sins: humility against pride, kindness against envy, abstinence against gluttony, chastity against lust, patience against anger, liberality against greed, and diligence against sloth.

I should think that this approach would give the person battling Scrupulosity a much more positive framework and outlook.

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

Seven Deadly Sins = Greed, Pride, Envy, Lust, Anger, Gluttony, and Sloth.

Those though out there with a difficult with scruples (and others)…it is important to note that the term “deadly” there does not mean that all that would come under these 7 larger trees are “grave matter” for mortal sins…lust of course is grave matter!..but in terms of most of the others --while there can be grave matter—they can also often be venial matter. I just do not want readers to think…gee I ate a too many cookies…or I got a little angry …or was somewhat greedy…or prideful etc…that it was a mortal sin.

 

[JRKH]

Those though out there with a difficult with scruples (and others)…it is important to note that the term “deadly” there does not mean that all that would come under these 7 larger trees are “grave matter” for mortal sins…lust of course is grave matter!..but in terms of most of the others --while there can be grave matter—they can also often be venial matter. I just do not want readers to think…gee I ate a too many cookies…or I got a little angry …or was somewhat greedy…or prideful etc…that it was a mortal sin.

Thanks Cat -

You’ve always got my back…I appreciate it.

Peace
James

 

[Mark1970]

As somebody who actually suffers from mild scrupulosity, I don’t think the Sacrament of Reconciliation causes it - at least not in my case - although it can act as a focus for it.

I don’t want to generalise, as scrupulosity wil be different from person to person. But I find that in my case, some of the “problem” - the anxiety - I have Confession-wise can also be experienced in other situations. So for me Confession itself isn’t the cause.

 

[Blenderx]

It might be helpful for there to be a clearer understanding of the causes of scruples. This is what the book The Spiritual Life by A. Tanquerey (an excellent book) has to say:

"Scruples arise sometimes from purely natural causes and sometimes they are due to supernatural intervention.
A. From a natural point of view scruples are often a physical and moral disease.

1. The physical ailment which brings about this disorder is a sort of nervous depression, which hinders a well-balanced decision on moral questions and tends to produce without solid reasons the obsessing idea that one has sinned.
2. There are also moral causes which produce the same effect, such as a meticulous mind, a mind that loses itself aid the most trifling details that wants to reach absolute certitude in all things; a beclouded mind that represents God not as a just judge, but as a merciless one; a mind that confuses feeling with consent in human acts, and imagines, that because the imagination has been for long alive to vivid impressions, sin has been committed; an obstinate ind, that prefers its own judgment to that of the confessor for the very reason that it lets itself be led by impressions rather than by reason.
   When these two causes, physical and moral, are present, the evil is more deeply rooted and the cure is more difficult.

B. Scruples can also arise from preternatural intervention on the part of God or of the devil.

1. God allows us to be thus obsessed either as a punishment, chiefly of our pride, of our inclinations to vain complacency, or as a trial, to make us expiate our past faults, to detach us from spiritual consolations, and bring us to a higher degree of sanctity. This is the case especially with souls whom He wants to fit for contemplation, as we shall explain when treating of the unitive way.
2. The devil also at times injects his activity into the morbid predisposition of our nervous system in order to create a turmoil in our souls. He persuades us that we are in the state of mortal sin in order to hinder us from receiving Holy Communion, or to hamper us int he discharge of our duties of state; above all, he strives to deceive us as to the gravity of some act or other in order to make us sin, because of a false conscience, even when there is no matter for sin and much less for grievous sin."

I find it interesting that God may actually in some way be the source of scruples, for the benefit of the individual.

I don’t know how the current practice of confession can be changed to lessen the incidence of scruples, because it does have so many root causes. Better catechesis for sure, as someone mentioned, and that is necessary in general for everybody.

I think, really, that as soon as a person can recognize that they are scrupulous, the battle is already halfway won. Then they have only to learn to submit completely.

 

[Joan_M]

I think the structure of confession may lead to that.
The emphasis on lists of sins and less emphasis on conversion and change of life.
I mean you should distinguish between killing your mother or killing a plant, but some distinctions are so thin and narrow that you may fall into the pit of trying to distinguish between stealing 1 000 000 dolars and stealing 1 000 001 dolars.
I feel that people suffer a lot for that. This is not new.
St Igantius of Loyola had a book on Scrupolosity.

This is real exaggeration!! There is no pit between stealing 1,000,000 dollars and 1,000,001! Both are mortal sins. In the case of stealing the area of confusion can be between stealing $100 and $5, since both can be mortal sins, depending on other things - stealing $100 is always a mortal sin. Stealing $5 can be a venial sin, but it can be a mortal sin if the person you steal it from is poor and losing that $5 may have a big impact on the person’s life.

People who scruple over sin are suffering from OCD.

But, besides that, in order to change your life you need to know which weeds to pull out. Everyone of us have dominant faults that are the source of all our sins. If we do not know these and work diligently on them, we will never change our lives. Conversion is not a one-time almost miraculous life change, even though there may, indeed, be a catalyst that results in a big change. Even St. Paul spoke about things he needed to continue to fight. Overcoming our dominant faults is the work of a lifetime. That is why we tend to have a recurring list of sins to confess.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

This is real exaggeration!! There is no pit between stealing 1,000,000 dollars and 1,000,001! Both are mortal sins. In the case of stealing the area of confusion can be between stealing $100 and $5, since both can be mortal sins, depending on other things - stealing $100 is always a mortal sin. Stealing $5 can be a venial sin, but it can be a mortal sin if the person you steal it from is poor and losing that $5 may have a big impact on the person’s life.

People who scruple over sin are suffering from OCD.

But, besides that, in order to change your life you need to know which weeds to pull out. Everyone of us have dominant faults that are the source of all our sins. If we do not know these and work diligently on them, we will never change our lives. Conversion is not a one-time almost miraculous life change, even though there may, indeed, be a catalyst that results in a big change. Even St. Paul spoke about things he needed to continue to fight. Overcoming our dominant faults is the work of a lifetime. That is why we tend to have a recurring list of sins to confess.

See the scupulosity in action?

Please forget your way of thinking. I was jokingly saying that difference but you are distinguising between 100 and 5. Forget all about those differences… I do not believe you are going to steal a penny so forget about those distinctions…

Answering directly ( I do not lose sleep over it!) stealing 100 dollars from Bill Gates is a mortal sin? I can start doing distinctions too but that leads us to anguish…

 

[Blenderx]

See the scupulosity in action?

Please forget your way of thinking. I was jokingly saying that difference but you are distinguising between 100 and 5. Forget all about those differences… I do not believe you are going to steal a penny so forget about those distinctions…

Answering directly ( I do not lose sleep over it!) stealing 100 dollars from Bill Gates is a mortal sin? I can start doing distinctions too but that leads us to anguish…

It isn’t scrupulosity to distinguish mortal and venial sin. Everyone has to. Joan M was quite reasoned and clear and not at all sounding scrupulous.

People who scruple over sin are suffering from OCD.

Read my post above. While it is common, not everyone suffering from scruples has OCD. There are a variety of causes.