Does the term "faith" mean the same to Catholics, Protestants, and others?

[nuntym]

Hello

Back at this thread I made the contention that maybe Protestants and Catholics see things differently when it comes to their faiths because, well, they mean different things by the term faith. I quoted this article from the Catholic Encyclopedia of 1913:

According to Luther (and Calvin also), the faith that justifies is not, as the Catholic Church teaches, a firm belief in God’s revealed truths and promises (fides theoretica, dogmatica), but is the infallible conviction (fides fiducialis, fiducia) that God for the sake of Christ will no longer impute to us our sins, but will consider and treat us, as if we were really just and holy, although in our inner selves we remain the same sinners as before…This so-called “fiduciary faith” is not a religious-moral preparation of the soul for sanctifying grace, nor a free act of cooperation on the part of the sinner; it is merely a means or spiritual instrument (instrumentum, organon leptikon) granted by God to assist the sinner in laying hold of the righteousness of God, thereby to cover his sins in a purely external manner as with a mantle. For this reason the Lutheran formularies of belief lay great stress on the doctrine that our entire righteousness does not intrinsically belong to us, but is something altogether exterior. Cf. Solid. Declar., sec. 48: “It is settled beyond question that our justice is to be sought wholly outside of ourselves and that it consists entirely in our Lord Jesus Christ.” etc.

Source

A couple of posters then noted that it is quite unproductive to get information about Protestants from a Catholic book. I saw the wisdom in that and made this thread.

Now I do not mean this as a debate thread, I am just curious about this, if Catholics and other Christians mean the same thing when we use the term faith. I therefore hope Christians, Catholics and Non-Catholics alike, will join this discussion.

I also invite followers of other religions.

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For the record, I believe that Catholics do hold faith to be the “dogmatic faith” that is defined above, which is identical to what is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

CCC 142 By his Revelation, “the invisible God, from the fullness of his love, addresses men as his friends, and moves among them, in order to invite and receive them into his own company.” The adequate response to this invitation is faith.

CCC 143 By faith, man completely submits his intellect and his will to God. With his whole being man gives his assent to God the revealer. Sacred Scripture calls this human response to God, the author of revelation, “the obedience of faith”.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c3a1.htm#142

 

[paul_c]

I see faith as belief in what the Church teaches about the trinity and salvation. Protestant and others would not have this same view. They might see faith in a believe in what the Bible says about Jesus, for instance.

The other issue is how we react to faith. Is it merely an intellectual exercise or does it have to be put into action to be real? I think that might be the bigger issue.

 

[Drawmack]

To me faith is simply belief in something which cannot be proven. However, I don’t think you’re asking about faith in general but Salvific Faith specifically.

First, it should be noted that Protestants do not believe that Faith Alone, Sola Fide, saves. We believe that Grace Alone, Sola Gratia, saves and that Grace is justified by Faith alone. (Source) The reason that this is noteworthy is because the two doctrines are often confused by Catholics and Protestants alike.

Secondly, it is also noteworthy that the usage of the term Sola in each of the five solas is a bit of a misnomer. The usage of the word sola, or sole – alone, is in response to the Catholic Church’s proclamation that something is two things. For example, the Catholic Church teaches that justification is through works and faith, and Protestant theology says no it is only faith. So, for each sola you really should keep the conversation within the actual and true differences between Catholics and Protestants. By extending these discussions to include things other than what was originally intended you are being either ignorant or disingenuous.

Now, I will finally explain what I believe is salvific faith but do so in light of what I have said above. As I’ve noted, faith is belief in something which cannot be proven. Salvific Faith, which is actually better called Justific Faith, is a specific instance of this. So, what am I believing in, which cannot be proven, that justifies God’s Grace being given to me? This can be answered by reading 1 Corinthians 15:3 – 8:

…that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures; that he was buried; that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures; that he appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one born abnormally, he appeared to me.

Some of this is not a matter of faith because it can be born out through historical documents. A man named Jesus of Nazareth lived at about the time Christianity claims – this can be historically proven (Josephus). This man was crucified by the Romans – this can be historically proven (Josephus). This man was of Jewish origin and taught things that the Jews, who did not accept him as savior, though to be heresy – this can be historically proven (Numerous Jewish historians dating to the first century). What cannot be proven is that Jesus was born of a virgin as the living, breathing, Son and God incarnate, Jesus’ crucifixion paid the price for human sin, that Jesus’ was resurrected from the dead, that Jesus will one day return. It is belief in these things that is the Justific Faith queried about in this thread.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Catholics see faith as an answer to our uncertainty. If we were absolutely certain, where is the room for faith?

Protestants see faith as their certainty - which I don’t understand because why would one need faith if they are certain?

 

[Drawmack]

Catholics see faith as an answer to our uncertainty. If we were absolutely certain, where is the room for faith?

Protestants see faith as their certainty - which I don’t understand because why would one need faith if they are certain?

That is certainly and interesting take on it Charlie.

I am certain that those who have faith in Jesus as the Savior and trust in Him are saved. I also know that anyone who has this faith will attempt to live a Christ like life, “you’ll know them by their fruits”. So, you need the faith because you can be certain that the faith will save you – without the faith there is no certainty.

I have always interpreted that Catholic view as I have faith that Jesus saves, but I do not have faith that I am saved. This I don’t understand. Why would someone go through all this stuff if they weren’t sure? I’m not trying to be sarcastic, I really don’t understand it.

 

[nuntym]

That is certainly and interesting take on it Charlie.

I am certain that those who have faith in Jesus as the Savior and trust in Him are saved. I also know that anyone who has this faith will attempt to live a Christ like life, “you’ll know them by their fruits”. So, you need the faith because you can be certain that the faith will save you – without the faith there is no certainty.

I have always interpreted that Catholic view as I have faith that Jesus saves, but I do not have faith that I am saved. This I don’t understand. Why would someone go through all this stuff if they weren’t sure? I’m not trying to be sarcastic, I really don’t understand it.

Your answers have been very insightful Drawmack, thank you. In return, I’ll try to answer your question.

I guess the short answer is sin. Faith for Catholics is not just an assent of the heart. It has to be complete: faith must be expressed through mind, body, heart, and soul; that is, through obedience of the whole being.

CCC 143 By faith, man completely submits his intellect and his will to God. With his whole being man gives his assent to God the revealer. Sacred Scripture calls this human response to God, the author of revelation, “the obedience of faith”.

In consequence, faith in the Catholic sense is more fragile, for disobedience, i.e. sin, means a failure of faith. Therefore if the sin is serious enough, the salvific power of faith can be lost.

This is how I understand this issue. If I am in any way wrong, I hope my Catholic brethren here can correct me.