Does the Trinity imply each Person's imperfection?

[CutlerB]

The Catechism states in paragraph 246:

And, since the Father has through generation given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son.

I have heard it said that an argument against polytheism is this: Neither of the gods would be perfect, since each would suffer the disadvantage of not being the other.

But isn’t that exactly the case with the Holy Trinity, when the Son is not the Father? I may be misunderstanding the thing, since I do know the distinction between gods and the One True God.

Can someone clear this up?

 

[meltzerboy]

The Catechism states in paragraph 246:

I have heard it said that an argument against polytheism is this: Neither of the gods would be perfect, since each would suffer the disadvantage of not being the other.

But isn’t that exactly the case with the Holy Trinity, when the Son is not the Father? I may be misunderstanding the thing, since I do know the distinction between gods and the One True God.

Can someone clear this up?

The Trinity is not three separate Persons that added together make up one G-d. That would mean that G-d is structurally divisible into parts and would not fit the monotheistic nature of G-d. Rather, each Person is totally G-d; however, at the same time, each Person has its functional role. I think a human analogy, which of course falls short, would be that an individual human can have several roles, such as spouse, parent, child, sibling, worker, and so on. It’s still the same human with one essence or nature, but that human takes on more than one distinctive function in their life, all of which are in relation to each other. As a non-Christian, that’s my understanding of the Trinity; perhaps others more knowledgeable can elaborate upon or correct my description.

 

[CutlerB]

The Trinity is not three separate Persons that added together make up one G-d. That would mean that G-d is structurally divisible into parts and would not fit the monotheistic nature of G-d. Rather, each Person is totally G-d; however, at the same time, each Person has its functional role. I think a human analogy, which of course falls short, would be that an individual human can have several roles, such as spouse, parent, child, sibling, worker, and so on. It’s still the same human with one essence or nature, but that human takes on more than one distinctive function in their life, all of which are in relation to each other. As a non-Christian, that’s my understanding of the Trinity; perhaps others more knowledgeable can elaborate upon or correct my description.

I believe the analogy you give is something called Modalism (or Sabellianism), which was condemned as heresy. The Trinity is Three distinct Persons in One God.

 

[hansard]

Nevertheless, the analogy given by meltzerboy is easily understood and might at least serve as a means of conceptualizing the trinity. And, to be honest, there is no-one on earth who has any real understanding of what the Trinity is like, so no-one can claim the high moral ground on this one.

 

[CutlerB]

Nevertheless, the analogy given by meltzerboy is easily understood and might at least serve as a means of conceptualizing the trinity. And, to be honest, there is no-one on earth who has any real understanding of what the Trinity is like, so no-one can claim the high moral ground on this one.

You are correct when you state nobody on earth can understand the Trinity completely. The condemnation of Modalism, though, is definite.

 

[R_C]

The most beautiful teaching on the Holy Trinity and the Divine Persons I ever heard is the Preface of the Holy Trinity in the usus antiquor:

It is truly right and just,
proper and salutary
to always and everywhere
give thanks to You, O Lord, holy Father,
Almighty and eternal God;

For with Your Only-begotten Son and the Holy Spirit
you are one God, one Lord,
not in the singularity of one person,
but in the Trinity of one substance.

For what we believe of Your glory, as You revealed it,
the same we also believe of Your Son,
and of the Holy Spirit,
without difference or distinction.

That in the confession of the true and sempiternal Deity,
propriety in persons,
unity in essence,
and equality in majesty be adored.

 

[CutlerB]

The most beautiful teaching on the Holy Trinity and the Divine Persons I ever heard is the Preface of the Holy Trinity in the usus antiquor:

True, that’s wonderful. I felt a little smile cross my face when I read “usus antiquior”…

 

[JimG]

I believe the analogy you give is something called Modalism (or Sabellianism), which was condemned as heresy. The Trinity is Three distinct Persons in One God.

That’s true. But we must also keep in mind that the three Persons are not Three Beings. God is only one Being, one entity, one essence, which essence is expressed in three Persons by reason of their relation one to the other.

We humans are accustomed to having only one person associated with one human nature. We haven’t known a human being expressed as more than one person. With God it is different. But he remains only one Being.

 

[Texas_Longhorns]

The Catechism states in paragraph 246:

I have heard it said that an argument against polytheism is this: Neither of the gods would be perfect, since each would suffer the disadvantage of not being the other.

But isn’t that exactly the case with the Holy Trinity, when the Son is not the Father? I may be misunderstanding the thing, since I do know the distinction between gods and the One True God.

Can someone clear this up?

That is a very good question, and it is answered in the Catholic teachings regarding the Trinity.

The three Persons of the Trinity are indeed completely equal. One does not possess anything that is not possessed by the other. If one Person possessed an attribute, or a quality that another did not possess, the one that lacked it would not be God, since God lacks nothing.

The answer to the question you raised also refutes the heresy of the Orthodox, which denies that the Holy Ghost proceeds from both the Father and the Son, as defined at the Council of Florence.

The answer is that the only difference between the three Persons of the Trinity is their relation to one another. The Father is eternal and unbegotten. The Son is eternally begotten by the Father. And the Holy Ghost spirates eternally from both the Father and the Son as from a single principle. This explanation can be found on manuals of dogmatic theology and in the Summa of St. Thomas.

There is no difference between the Persons themselves, meaning they are all three identical. You may want to do a search for the Athanasian Creed. This official Creed of the Church gives a beautiful explanation of the Trinity.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

The Catechism states in paragraph 246:

I have heard it said that an argument against polytheism is this: Neither of the gods would be perfect, since each would suffer the disadvantage of not being the other.

But isn’t that exactly the case with the Holy Trinity, when the Son is not the Father? I may be misunderstanding the thing, since I do know the distinction between gods and the One True God.

Can someone clear this up?

There is never a time when the Son is not with the Father (and Holy Spirit). They are always united in the Divine Nature. To say that there was ever a time when they were separate, is to confess more than one God. From the CCC:

253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”. The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: “The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.” In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature

267 Inseparable in what they are, the divine persons are also inseparable in what they do. But within the single divine operation each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, especially in the divine missions of the Son’s Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

637 In his human soul** united to his divine person**, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him.

I included the last one because a lot of people think that when Jesus died on the cross he somehow “separated” from the Father. This is partly due to a misunderstanding of “My God, my God…” spoken by Jesus on the cross, and in part due to a misunderstanding of the teaching on the Trinity.