Does the welfare system/state make people feel more useless?

[royal_archer]

As I will hopefully next year, be paying for others to be on these programs, by working in a “depressing office.”

I am not insensitive peoples plights, some of my observation is that people who work 10 hours in an office job, would have extreme difficultly getting help from these programs, even if they qualify. I have a relatively flexible schedule so can make it to appointments that last 3 hours, or sit in a waiting room all afternoon waiting to fill out paperwork, but how do people who work all day do this?

People who work do not wait three hours because those who pay for these programs are not allowed to participate in them. your comments portrayed a distinct lack of sensitivity. How can you consider a few hours here and there to take someone elses money to be more of a burden than the 40 to 50 hours every week that others are working to earn that money just to have some undeserving person take it.

 

[jilly4ski]

People who work do not wait three hours because those who pay for these programs are not allowed to participate in them. your comments portrayed a distinct lack of sensitivity. How can you consider a few hours here and there to take someone elses money to be more of a burden than the 40 to 50 hours every week that others are working to earn that money just to have some undeserving person take it.

This is categorically incorrect. My husband does work 40 hours (or more if he has to work overtime) every week, at a job he is overqualified for (because there is nothing else), and yet we still qualify for welfare. If I also worked we would have to put our child into daycare which his paycheck alone would hardly cover. (Though I am attending a professional school in order to have a job where we will not need welfare). Besides, just because we are on welfare, doesn’t mean that part of my husbands paycheck doesn’t go to SS and medicare . In fact, he is not on a state subsidized health insurance, because he doesn’t have the time to sign up, and can’t be without his drivers license for as long as it would take to send in an application and get it sent back. So your information is completely incorrect.

Anyways your comments are completely uncharitable. My husband works the job he can get, in an area with an outrageous unemployment rate that is losing jobs, Thus he makes $9.00/hr. security on the graveyard shift in a state which makes security guards to be licensed. Now can you honestly tell me that you could live without any assistance on a job like that.

 

[royal_archer]

This is categorically incorrect. My husband does work 40 hours (or more if he has to work overtime) every week, at a job he is overqualified for (because there is nothing else), and yet we still qualify for welfare. If I also worked we would have to put our child into daycare which his paycheck alone would hardly cover. (Though I am attending a professional school in order to have a job where we will not need welfare). Besides, just because we are on welfare, doesn’t mean that part of my husbands paycheck doesn’t go to SS and medicare . In fact, he is not on a state subsidized health insurance, because he doesn’t have the time to sign up, and can’t be without his drivers license for as long as it would take to send in an application and get it sent back. So your information is completely incorrect.

Anyways your comments are completely uncharitable. My husband works the job he can get, in an area with an outrageous unemployment rate that is losing jobs, Thus he makes $9.00/hr. security on the graveyard shift in a state which makes security guards to be licensed. Now can you honestly tell me that you could live without any assistance on a job like that.

I was also in a possition where I could not find a good job locally, so I moved. I have lived on much less than 9. per hour. As long as you live within your means, it is not a problem. But your husband is not at issue here. The fact remains that you are expecting other people to give their money to you and you are complaining about having to wait in an office for three hours to get money it took others 40+ hours a week to earn.

While I appreciate your going to law school to better yourself, I don’t see why you don’t do what most people do which is work at day and go to night school. (that is how I finnished my degree)

 

[jilly4ski]

I was also in a possition where I could not find a good job locally, so I moved. I have lived on much less than 9. per hour. As long as you live within your means, it is not a problem. But your husband is not at issue here. The fact remains that you are expecting other people to give their money to you and you are complaining about having to wait in an office for three hours to get money it took others 40+ hours a week to earn.

While I appreciate your going to law school to better yourself, I don’t see why you don’t do what most people do which is work at day and go to night school. (that is how I finnished my degree)

Because I have a child that I need to take care of. And we can’t move until I graduate. And no we didn’t expect to be on welfare or for people to give us money, I expected to go to school, live off husbands income and maybe a work study and my loans, and wait until I graduated and a job to have child. Well life happened, I had a baby, and needed health insurance. If there weren’t these government programs I would go to the church for food and health assistance, probably not have prenatal care, and just pay for the birth out of pocket (and had terrible credit). But these government programs do exist, and we qualify, so we try to be responsible by making it a short term thing, and save the government as much money as we can, by using coupons, buying things on sale only, paying for things ourselves when we can, and not using all of the aid we are given to allow the government to recoup some of that money.

You see I was brought up in a middleclass very frugal/thrifty home. I was not happy to have to ask for this type of help and I am very concerned about abuse of the system. (I am still trying to decide if I should report our pediatricians for rendering serviced not needed under medicaid)

 

[royal_archer]

Because I have a child that I need to take care of. And we can’t move until I graduate. And no we didn’t expect to be on welfare or for people to give us money, I expected to go to school, live off husbands income and maybe a work study and my loans, and wait until I graduated and a job to have child. Well life happened, I had a baby, and needed health insurance. If there weren’t these government programs I would go to the church for food and health assistance, probably not have prenatal care, and just pay for the birth out of pocket (and had terrible credit). But these government programs do exist, and we qualify, so we try to be responsible by making it a short term thing, and save the government as much money as we can, by using coupons, buying things on sale only, paying for things ourselves when we can, and not using all of the aid we are given to allow the government to recoup some of that money.

I am glad that you are planning to pay the money back. I am supportive of loans to help people through short term situations as opposed to intergenerational dependency. However, you seem to admit yourself that you could get by with out it but are taking it anyhow.

You see I was brought up in a middleclass very frugal/thrifty home. I was not happy to have to ask for this type of help and I am very concerned about abuse of the system. (I am still trying to decide if I should report our pediatricians for rendering serviced not needed under medicaid)

Why would you have any hesititation over reporting a theft through fraud?

 

[jilly4ski]

I am glad that you are planning to pay the money back. I am supportive of loans to help people through short term situations as opposed to intergenerational dependency. However, you seem to admit yourself that you could get by with out it but are taking it anyhow.

Why would you have any hesititation over reporting a theft through fraud?

Sigh, this is why I was hesitant in contributing to this thread. We could get by with less aid, then what is given us. But the way the system works you can’t call them up and tell them they should reduce your aid by $50 or what ever it is. They have a set amount they give everyone with that family size and in the range of income. WIC checks we don’t need we don’t use (thus not using the money), We carry an excess balance on the food stamps account, so that when we stop using there will still be unused money on it. Thus not using what we don’t need, that does not translate into getting by without it completely.

Because I am not sure it was theft or fraud. I don’t know if the clinic gets paid for specialist referrals or how they code things. Medicaid fraud is a pretty serious offense, if I don’t know for sure, it seems very unfair to accuse a clinic/doctor of that. (like accusing a man of sexual assault if you are not sure it was that man or if it was really assault).

 

[royal_archer]

Sigh, this is why I was hesitant in contributing to this thread. We could get by with less aid, then what is given us. But the way the system works you can’t call them up and tell them they should reduce your aid by $50 or what ever it is. They have a set amount they give everyone with that family size and in the range of income. WIC checks we don’t need we don’t use (thus not using the money), We carry an excess balance on the food stamps account, so that when we stop using there will still be unused money on it. Thus not using what we don’t need, that does not translate into getting by without it completely.

Because I am not sure it was theft or fraud. I don’t know if the clinic gets paid for specialist referrals or how they code things. Medicaid fraud is a pretty serious offense, if I don’t know for sure, it seems very unfair to accuse a clinic/doctor of that. (like accusing a man of sexual assault if you are not sure it was that man or if it was really assault).

Don’t worry they will investigate and make the determination. Just report it as an annomoly and ask them to look into it.

 

[Ned_Netterville]

Jesus’ parable of the Good Samaritan in Ch 10 of Luke is instructive regarding helping those who cannot help themselves.

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’**”
“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

The lessons here, aside from what it says about lawyers, is that the Samaritan used his own wine and oil to dress the poor man’s wounds, he put him on “his own” donkey, took care of him himself, and he used his own money to pay for the man’s continuing care whatever the cost might be. Finally, Jesus instructed the lawyer, and I think us, to go and do likewise. To have government interfere in this peaceful, loving act of caring human intercourse by forcibly taking money from some people to replace the Samaritan’s personal charity and responsibility damages both the giver and receiver and seems to me more the work of Satan than God.

“But what is a mother to do who is so desperately poor that her children may starve if she doesn’t apply for food stamps and other welfare goodies?” the lawyer asks.

I think St. Francis had the answer: “What can poor people do? They can help others. First of all, we are not solely materials beings, we are also spiritual beings, and as I showed in my example of a paralyzed nun, even those who cannot move can still help others. Other poor people can also help others in this way. But even on a human level, most poor people can do things to help out their neighbors. They can do the laundry for an elderly person, they can run an errand for a pregnant neighbor, etc. They can visit the elderly in nursing homes, volunteer at soup kitchens and hospitals.”

“How in God’s name will this feed those poor children?” says the lawyer

Jesus again answered the lawyer’s question in his Sermon on the Mount:

[D]o not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own…“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you.

Is living one day at a time in utter dependence on God easy? No, but it beats the alternatives of starving children or government dependency hands down. And it is the best way I know of building a faith in God that will serve one well in all circumstances.**

 

[St_Francis]

While I appreciate your quoting me, I didn’t go as far as you seem to have thought I did.

First, there is a need for people to help each other put, and often tbere is a need for an organized way to help people out, for which I propose the Church, as it used to be.

WRT your example above, as things are set up now, the mother might have no alternative but to seek government help. Even just looking for private help might be stymied, as I know for sure at least one church around here will only help people after they have been to Social Services.

My point with what I wrote that you quoted was that the materialistic and bureaucratic nature of our current help for people in need makes the people who receive it feel worthless, when they are actually capable of helping others.

 

[Ned_Netterville]

Faith in God and the teaching of Jesus eliminate the need for government and its so-called benefits, insurance and its putative security.

 

[Colmcille]

‘Welfare System’? Entitlements? Safety Net?
Some might say that life isn’t fair… my dear, wonderful, honorable wife of 29 1/2 years began treatment for breast cancer nearly a year ago and developed a pathological (cancer-caused) fracture of her femur and later an actual fracture that resulted in excruciating pain and a ‘hip replacement surgery’ a couple of months ago and still can’t walk. She never smoked, drank or misbehaved but still was stricken by cancer… As Christians do we think we run the world or even our own lives? Do the governing authorities? Does Satan? The old Latin saying Vade Retro Me, Satana! (translation of get thee behind me, Satan!) makes sense if we are willing to commit to positive, wholesome choices and action in our lives. Laziness is not an option; doing nothing so that evil may triumph is not an option. Love endures, helps the needy neighbor, heals the self and others. Neighbors in the last few days have brought chili and cherry pie, beef stew, chicken noodle soup, Christmas goodies, fruits and other things so that we will need more company to help eat the homemade meals reasonably soon. Generous people can make our earthly existence more bearable, but government programs may not be personal enough to maintain our spirit or attitude fo positive thinking and living.